Outgoing? SANDER BERGE ON WAY OUT ?

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mattbianco1 said:
That's Dortmund though. The 2nd biggest club in Germany.
Werder Bremen are newly promoted back to the Bundesliga. It's like Bournemouth or Fulham buying him
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That's a bit of a weird comparison. Last season was only their second season out of the top division ever, they've won three major trophies this century and have won a European trophy. They're not a small club. A more accurate comparison might be to Villa straight after they got back into the Premier League. If you want to compare Bournemouth to a German team, then think Hoffenheim if they had a ground half the size and were worse on the field
 

A Storm of Blades said:
Apparently so. We have a supposed £35m release clause. If the club decide that it makes financial sense to accept an offer lower than that, or the player makes noises then fair enough. I just don’t understand why some supporters are almost desperate for us to sell for a low price.
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Because they're sad fuckers who have never had an ounce of ambition in their lives

The kind of people who wouldn't walk as far as the next pub up the road which is a banging night out because its 5p a pint more up there, so they sit in a drab shithole staring at the wall and then go home happy with the fact that they've bought cheaper beer and had a shit, miserable time.

Sadly this is the life of a large number of Sheffielders, and most of these types tend to support United
 
A Storm of Blades said:
Ok, but you could easily say he’s in the top 3 players in the Championship and not be a world beater. And I keep seeing this line of recruiting someone better for less. Who? From where?
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Based on what??

Harry Wilson, John Swift, James Garner and even Harry Toffolo were all OPTA rated higher than Berge last season.

It's surprises me that fans are deluded enough to think that as a championship club, we have any sort of pull and control over a player like berge. It's 2022 and players all see themselves as bigger than clubs....Money and success talks and unfortunately despite a flirt in the top flight, we have no guarantee to either...

How I dream of a team of players with the same love, passion and mentality as Billy Sharp.

It always has to boil down to the club being at blame...... At 33k a week, if Berge doesn't want to be here and if he doesn't want to give his all every single week....then quite frankly fuck him. You can't force players to play out of their skins every week, foot all unfortunately doesn't work that way. Throw 50k a week at him and he's still got his native international .anger saying that he needs to be playing at the highest level.....

Berge on his day can be a class above, but in no way is it guaranteed every week...... let's not be deluded.
 
Bladedownsouth said:
Based on what??

Harry Wilson, John Swift, James Garner and even Harry Toffolo were all OPTA rated higher than Berge last season.

It's surprises me that fans are deluded enough to think that as a championship club, we have any sort of pull and control over a player like berge. It's 2022 and players all see themselves as bigger than clubs....Money and success talks and unfortunately despite a flirt in the top flight, we have no guarantee to either...

How I dream of a team of players with the same love, passion and mentality as Billy Sharp.

It always has to boil down to the club being at blame...... At 33k a week, if Berge doesn't want to be here and if he doesn't want to give his all every single week....then quite frankly fuck him. You can't force players to play out of their skins every week, foot all unfortunately doesn't work that way. Throw 50k a week at him and he's still got his native international .anger saying that he needs to be playing at the highest level.....

Berge on his day can be a class above, but in no way is it guaranteed every week...... let's not be deluded.
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With respect, I think you might have misunderstood. Swift et al are the best players in the league but also not world beaters. We don’t need Berge to be world class, because the league isn’t. That doesn’t mean he isn’t one of the finest in the league, and if we don’t need to sell (a big if) then we shouldn’t entertain anything less than something near his release clause.
 
A Storm of Blades said:
With respect, I think you might have misunderstood. Swift et al are the best players in the league but also not world beaters. We don’t need Berge to be world class, because the league isn’t. That doesn’t mean he isn’t one of the finest in the league, and if we don’t need to sell (a big if) then we shouldn’t entertain anything less than something near his release clause.
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How is berge a world beater? His pri e tag is based on potential, not on any sort of solid form. He was okay for us in the Premier league and at times held his own, but he didn't set the wod on fire.....and again OPTA ratings didn't show him as a solid Premier league midfielder.

Hi shows glimpses of a good player, but he has to go somewhere and consistently perform in order to prove that. It doesn't seem that he is willing to stay and around long term and prove that with us.
 
JJBlade said:
Because they're sad fuckers who have never had an ounce of ambition in their lives

The kind of people who wouldn't walk as far as the next pub up the road which is a banging night out because its 5p a pint more up there, so they sit in a drab shithole staring at the wall and then go home happy with the fact that they've bought cheaper beer and had a shit, miserable time.

Sadly this is the life of a large number of Sheffielders, and most of these types tend to support United
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Have enough of those beers and it becomes a great night regardless of where you are 😂
 
I can't agree with any comments calling him the best player in the division

But I do think he is placed to be the best player in the division, given a clean run at it with no injuries

That expectation might be what many are basing their valuations on ?

If he starts 40 games he'll get double figures, and come to boss his part of the pitch regularly
 
To my mind there are posters on here missing a few key points.
Berge being sold will be ambitious if we reinvest in some younger midfielders on permanent transfers. The big problem the club has is the age profile of our midfielders and their contracts. Norwood and Fleck would need to be replaced. That's why it makes sense to sell Berge and reinvest wisely. Anything other than that will leave us in danger of going into free fall.
 
Everyone saying Berge wasnt anywhere near a top performer in the league last season are discounting the fact he only got going under hecky and I bet his stats in that period are up there

Also the same people saying Phillips is amazing and is far superior to Berge, Philips didn't exactly tear up the championship when he played there
 
Nagima said:
To my mind there are posters on here missing a few key points.
Berge being sold will be ambitious if we reinvest in some younger midfielders on permanent transfers. The big problem the club has is the age profile of our midfielders and their contracts. Norwood and Fleck would need to be replaced. That's why it makes sense to sell Berge and reinvest wisely. Anything other than that will leave us in danger of going into free fall.
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Keeping SB and getting in younger midfielders would be better ?
 
I’d like Berge to stay as I believed he’s now finding form after his injury and is thriving in his role under PH.

He also doesn’t strike me as the type to spit his dummy out for a move, he speaks well and seems to have the club at heart. If he’s offered a better deal that we can’t turn down then to me he can leave with my gratitude and be welcome back.

He’s not the best player in the Championship, but we saw glimpses of his talent when fully fit, in a comfortable role and with attacking talent around him.

Personally I think this season is huge for him, as he’s likely to get consistent game time and be integral to our progression up the pitch.

In conclusion, I think it would be a shame to lose him on the verge of us seeing what he can do, but clubs will be interested due to the potential.
 

Snowflake said:
Keeping SB and getting in younger midfielders would be better ?
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It would be better, the question is have we the resources to make that happen?. I don't know.
But if it is a case of keeping Berge versus revamping our midfield, I would go with the latter. Having loans is grand for adding depth to the squad or adding a skill set to a particular position. I think we need some permanent signings in midfield to prevent issues down the road in terms of squad turnover.
 
Bladedownsouth said:
How is berge a world beater? His pri e tag is based on potential, not on any sort of solid form. He was okay for us in the Premier league and at times held his own, but he didn't set the wod on fire.....and again OPTA ratings didn't show him as a solid Premier league midfielder.

Hi shows glimpses of a good player, but he has to go somewhere and consistently perform in order to prove that. It doesn't seem that he is willing to stay and around long term and prove that with us.
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Where have I said Berge is a world beater? I’ve said the top players in the Championship are not world beaters.
 
Mojo said:
Everyone saying Berge wasnt anywhere near a top performer in the league last season are discounting the fact he only got going under hecky and I bet his stats in that period are up there

Also the same people saying Phillips is amazing and is far superior to Berge, Philips didn't exactly tear up the championship when he played there
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People like to pretend that fitness isn't a thing, and that when he's been fit he hasn't looked really good (after first lock down; start of 2nd Prem season; back end of last season) But it is. If he replicates the form from the back end of last season when he was fit the narrative will change to "I always knew he was shit hot". Just wait ;) . Having said that the hamstring could pop again and we'd look naïve for not selling him.
 
Berkshire Blade said:
Sell high buy low does work. Look at Brentford. That said I don't think 22 million is Berge's ceiling.
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Yeah it would work, but like you say. Sell high, buy low isn't spend 22m on a player and sell the same player for 22m again when you've no hope of replacing him with anyone of a similar ability.
 
I would actually like to keep him, for clarity. I'm not sure we'll be able to but I'd prefer he be here next season.
 
Lots of extreme views.

Some thoughts…

  • Berge of the last few months of the season is certainly one of the top championship players - walks into any team in the division.
  • We haven’t seen that Berge enough in red and white
  • He’s not a defensive midfielder, so comparisons to Phillips are pointless
  • Notions of being worth 35m are just conjecture and hot air, that’s simply our release clause on him and is priced to deter other clubs.
  • Feels like if agent is agitating for a move and an ‘offer’ of 18m on the table means he’ll move. Expecting to recoup +22m isn’t far fetched - and pragmatically his value will erode as his contract length diminishes.
  • Assuming he goes, we are a worse team for the season. Sure we could reinvest wisely, but chances of that are slim
  • There are few players I’ve enjoyed watching play as much as I have Sander, (when he’s at his best).
 
JonnyD said:
Lots of extreme views.

Some thoughts…

  • Berge of the last few months of the season is certainly one of the top championship players - walks into any team in the division.
  • We haven’t seen that Berge enough in red and white
  • He’s not a defensive midfielder, so comparisons to Phillips are pointless
  • Notions of being worth 35m are just conjecture and hot air, that’s simply our release clause on him and is priced to deter other clubs.
  • Feels like if agent is agitating for a move and an ‘offer’ of 18m on the table means he’ll move. Expecting to recoup +22m isn’t far fetched - and pragmatically his value will erode as his contract length diminishes.
  • Assuming he goes, we are a worse team for the season. Sure we could reinvest wisely, but chances of that are slim
  • There are few players I’ve enjoyed watching play as much as I have Sander, (when he’s at his best).
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Some people will be shocked to read that I agree with most of that. The issue has always about how often he performs, not his top level of performance.

But because he doesn't perform often enough, I think there's a good chance we could reinvest half of that fee and still improve.

My main worry is that we won't see any of it, and we will be weaker then.
 
Berge is like Ian Bell. He is rarely, if ever the best player on the pitch. He doesn’t drag the team forward single handedly. But if others are in form, and doing well, you can get quality performances out of him.

Hence if he stays I have a vain hope that someone else will step up and do what MGW did to take the pressure off him.

He remains the second most overrated player I have seen at the Lane, after Leon Britton.
 
Look, the bottom line is the player/agent have made it known (in the correct way) that they would prefer a move away from Utd due to the player not wanting to spend another season in the Champ. That obviously falls short of submitting a formal transfer request but does make the player's preference clear. That leaves Utd with the following decisions (i) do they agree to sell and (ii) if so, for how much? It appears that the answer to (i) is likely to be - yes, albeit reluctantly. The answer to (ii) remains to be seen although it appears the club are holding out for more than interested parties are willing to pay. Then comes the ultimate decision - do they let the player go for less or risk him becoming unhappy. Previous regimes would probably go with the former but the current ownership and Board seem far more inclined to stick to the latter. IMHO that is probably the right way to play it especially if next season's budget is not based on the player's exit. That would put the onus on the player to perform to secure a move.
 
I really don't see why there are such wildly different views on this. When we signed him he knew how much we had paid & knew what the buy out fee would be. He has in part contributed to our demise, mainly through a long term injury but still, & if he wants to play at a higher level the best thing he can do is get his head down & help us to get back up, raising his profile at the same time.
I a against selling him, at almost any price, his qualities are clear now he is fully recovered, & any team without Berge & MGW is going to be weaker. I also think anyone who believes we will invest all or part of the fee on another player is dreaming, it will just disappear & leave us substantially weakened.
I really think the best way forward is to convince him to help us have an all out assault on going up this year & if we do it he can move, & the prize money will cover any shortfall in the fee, even though if we did go up he would surely be worth more, & he might then want to stay. It may be a big if, but a risk worth taking in my view.

All this talk of him only being worth £5/10 million is rubbish & clubs making those type of offers should be quickly shut down, as should his agent. In what world should a player believe he is too good for our level yet the offers being substantially less than we paid for him? Makes no sense.
 

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