Outgoing? Bogle

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Utd need to sell one or more assets to cover the shortfall in revenue during the upcoming season - that is clear. It will of course be a shame to see any of the top players leave but it is a necessity. Then it boils down to who goes - would for example people prefer Bogle and Egan (I'm amazed no Prem team have come in for him btw!) to go rather than say Ramsdale?

My view is that as well as only being able to react to where the interest is (i.e. you can't sell someone if nobody wants to buy them, at least for the price you wish to sell at), the club would be better off selling players where there is already adequate cover for their positions. There's obviously a current imbalance in the squad with far too many strikers and LCB/LB/LWBs so I would be happier if any of the strikers went (with the exception of McBurnie who I think offers something different to any of the other strikers on the books) and a left sided player was sacrificed (Stevens being likely to realise the largest price).

Due to lack of cover, Ramsdale and Egan going would have the biggest impact. I think Berge will go in the next 12 months - where that be in the next few weeks, in Jan (a potential disruptor if Utd are well placed in the league at the time!) or as is looking increasingly likely, next summer and it appears that recruitment of cover/backfill is already in progress.

That leaves RB/RWB and my view would probably depend on how SJ intends to set-up the side. If he plans to generally play a back 4 - I'd be inclined to keep Baldock (the better defender) and sacrifice Bogle (the better attacker) and vice versa if SJ plans on playing 3 or 5 defenders. That all assumes that Seriki is able to be recalled if required and is thought to be good enough and ready to play.
 
If we had had to pay all the transfer monies up front I agree with you, however they are paid throughout the duration of their contracts. Subsequently as long as the owners are convinced we will receive a fee to at least cover their initial fee we can recover the shortfall at a later date as we have not yet spent all all the premiership money
 
Mouth of the South said:
Utd need to sell one or more assets to cover the shortfall in revenue during the upcoming season - that is clear. It will of course be a shame to see any of the top players leave but it is a necessity. Then it boils down to who goes - would for example people prefer Bogle and Egan (I'm amazed no Prem team have come in for him btw!) to go rather than say Ramsdale?

My view is that as well as only being able to react to where the interest is (i.e. you can't sell someone if nobody wants to buy them, at least for the price you wish to sell at), the club would be better off selling players where there is already adequate cover for their positions. There's obviously a current imbalance in the squad with far too many strikers and LCB/LB/LWBs so I would be happier if any of the strikers went (with the exception of McBurnie who I think offers something different to any of the other strikers on the books) and a left sided player was sacrificed (Stevens being likely to realise the largest price).

Due to lack of cover, Ramsdale and Egan going would have the biggest impact. I think Berge will go in the next 12 months - where that be in the next few weeks, in Jan (a potential disruptor if Utd are well placed in the league at the time!) or as is looking increasingly likely, next summer and it appears that recruitment of cover/backfill is already in progress.

That leaves RB/RWB and my view would probably depend on how SJ intends to set-up the side. If he plans to generally play a back 4 - I'd be inclined to keep Baldock (the better defender) and sacrifice Bogle (the better attacker) and vice versa if SJ plans on playing 3 or 5 defenders. That all assumes that Seriki is able to be recalled if required and is thought to be good enough and ready to play.
Click to expand...
Why is United’s financial position “clear” ?
 
Mouth of the South said:
Are you able to call out any clubs that have not sold assets following relegation from the Prem?
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What has happened to others doesn’t mean it will happen to all.
Other clubs may have sold not because they had to but because they thought it made good business sense at the time.
 
Snowflake said:
What has happened to others doesn’t mean it will happen to all.
Other clubs may have sold not because they had to but because they thought it made good business sense at the time.
Click to expand...

United don't have the wage overheads of other clubs so it's largely a moot point. On top of that Jagielka, Moore, Rodwell, Lundstram, Bryan and Ampadu have already left.
 
Snowflake said:
What has happened to others doesn’t mean it will happen to all.
Other clubs may have sold not because they had to but because they thought it made good business sense at the time.
Click to expand...

Well let's see whether any assets are sold, particularly those carrying the largest values.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love Ramsdale, Berge, Egan and a number of others to stay, I just don't think it will be possible. The budget for the season is generous (i.e. in the top 2-3 in the division) but it won't allow SJ to bring in others involving fees. Whether it will allow the wage bill and transfer proceeds to remain as-is (+ the salaries of loans), and if so, for how long, will be key - the last thing the club would want will be to have to accept low offers towards the end of the window.
 
nopigfansintown said:
United don't have the wage overheads of other clubs so it's largely a moot point. On top of that Jagielka, Moore, Rodwell, Lundstram, Bryan and Ampadu have already left.
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Exactly. I don't get this cry from some that we are potless and need to sell an asset this summer. I don't see it.

United are just like any club in that their players are assets and they will sell if the price offered is right, but I don't see any McCabe manoeuvres here and all the sounds coming out of the Lane is that SJ took over on the basis that there is money already to spend WITHOUT any outgoings happening this window but that if there was to be any sale (cos the price offered was too good to turn down) then most of that would be added to the budget available.

Utd have been canny with the contracts that they have offered to the existing squad and their wages have dropped following relegation. Good business, and tough for the players, but if they want the money again then they need to buckle down and get us back up again. Reward for achievement.

Bearing in mind we made over £20m last season, the players wages had relegation salary reduction clauses for most, and we have moved on 6 senior players from the squad already who where all draining the money, then I just don't see why we have to sell this summer. Granted if we make a balls up of it this season or its not looking great in January, then I can see Utd starting to change stance and sell the silver. I don't think we are at that stage yet though and I think we are backing Big Slav to get us back up at the first time of asking. Wouldnt be surprised if Berge and Ramsdale are also 'all in' for this season and will reappraise next summer.
 
Weasel said:
Exactly. I don't get this cry from some that we are potless and need to sell an asset this summer. I don't see it.

United are just like any club in that their players are assets and they will sell if the price offered is right, but I don't see any McCabe manoeuvres here and all the sounds coming out of the Lane is that SJ took over on the basis that there is money already to spend WITHOUT any outgoings happening this window but that if there was to be any sale (cos the price offered was too good to turn down) then most of that would be added to the budget available.

Utd have been canny with the contracts that they have offered to the existing squad and their wages have dropped following relegation. Good business, and tough for the players, but if they want the money again then they need to buckle down and get us back up again. Reward for achievement.

Bearing in mind we made over £20m last season, the players wages had relegation salary reduction clauses for most, and we have moved on 6 senior players from the squad already who where all draining the money, then I just don't see why we have to sell this summer. Granted if we make a balls up of it this season or its not looking great in January, then I can see Utd starting to change stance and sell the silver. I don't think we are at that stage yet though and I think we are backing Big Slav to get us back up at the first time of asking. Wouldnt be surprised if Berge and Ramsdale are also 'all in' for this season and will reappraise next summer.
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Yep. We also have a 45 million parachute this season; 35 million next season and 15 million the year after. Then factor in that we've waited until the eve of the season to add any wages. Players can leave, for the right money. If not they'd have gone already.
 
Weasel said:
Exactly. I don't get this cry from some that we are potless and need to sell an asset this summer. I don't see it.

United are just like any club in that their players are assets and they will sell if the price offered is right, but I don't see any McCabe manoeuvres here and all the sounds coming out of the Lane is that SJ took over on the basis that there is money already to spend WITHOUT any outgoings happening this window but that if there was to be any sale (cos the price offered was too good to turn down) then most of that would be added to the budget available.

Utd have been canny with the contracts that they have offered to the existing squad and their wages have dropped following relegation. Good business, and tough for the players, but if they want the money again then they need to buckle down and get us back up again. Reward for achievement.

Bearing in mind we made over £20m last season, the players wages had relegation salary reduction clauses for most, and we have moved on 6 senior players from the squad already who where all draining the money, then I just don't see why we have to sell this summer. Granted if we make a balls up of it this season or its not looking great in January, then I can see Utd starting to change stance and sell the silver. I don't think we are at that stage yet though and I think we are backing Big Slav to get us back up at the first time of asking. Wouldnt be surprised if Berge and Ramsdale are also 'all in' for this season and will reappraise next summer.
Click to expand...
I think we needed to sell if we wanted to fund major outlays or a large squad turnover but we seem pretty happy to add via the loan market and stick with what we have.
 
We also didn't spunk any money on January trying to save the ship from sinking. People will have different opinions on that and no one is right or wrong, but the fact is that we didnt bring in any expensive signings obviously held some money back for next season.

Hopefully this decision will now start to pay dividends.
 

Weasel said:
We also didn't spunk any money on January trying to save the ship from sinking. People will have different opinions on that and no one is right or wrong, but the fact is that we didnt bring in any expensive signings obviously held some money back for next season.

Hopefully this decision will now start to pay dividends.
Click to expand...
I think it’s that Jan money which is funding the loans. Not spending it then means we have it now. I just don’t see how we have money for any major signings without sales, but if we use the loans right then we don’t need to buy.
Folk shouldn’t get carried away with the profit announced, that wasn’t last season and we incurred a load of additional cost while losing significant revenue.
 
Mouth of the South said:
Utd need to sell one or more assets to cover the shortfall in revenue during the upcoming season - that is clear. It will of course be a shame to see any of the top players leave but it is a necessity. Then it boils down to who goes - would for example people prefer Bogle and Egan (I'm amazed no Prem team have come in for him btw!) to go rather than say Ramsdale?

My view is that as well as only being able to react to where the interest is (i.e. you can't sell someone if nobody wants to buy them, at least for the price you wish to sell at), the club would be better off selling players where there is already adequate cover for their positions. There's obviously a current imbalance in the squad with far too many strikers and LCB/LB/LWBs so I would be happier if any of the strikers went (with the exception of McBurnie who I think offers something different to any of the other strikers on the books) and a left sided player was sacrificed (Stevens being likely to realise the largest price).

Due to lack of cover, Ramsdale and Egan going would have the biggest impact. I think Berge will go in the next 12 months - where that be in the next few weeks, in Jan (a potential disruptor if Utd are well placed in the league at the time!) or as is looking increasingly likely, next summer and it appears that recruitment of cover/backfill is already in progress.

That leaves RB/RWB and my view would probably depend on how SJ intends to set-up the side. If he plans to generally play a back 4 - I'd be inclined to keep Baldock (the better defender) and sacrifice Bogle (the better attacker) and vice versa if SJ plans on playing 3 or 5 defenders. That all assumes that Seriki is able to be recalled if required and is thought to be good enough and ready to play.
Click to expand...
'Assets' someones been reading Donald Trumps autobiography.......
 
gaffablade said:
'Assets' someones been reading Donald Trumps autobiography.......
Click to expand...

Haha - not his autobiography but The Art of the Deal is actually one of the biggest ever selling business books having sold over 1,000,000 copies.

They might all be a bit weird but you don't often meet a stupid billionaire.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
I think it’s that Jan money which is funding the loans. Not spending it then means we have it now. I just don’t see how we have money for any major signings without sales, but if we use the loans right then we don’t need to buy.
Folk shouldn’t get carried away with the profit announced, that wasn’t last season and we incurred a load of additional cost while losing significant revenue.
Click to expand...
exactly for me just add 3 loans to our squad and were the best in the division imo and if we do sell it will give us a bit more capital to play with
 
bertieblade said:
If we had had to pay all the transfer monies up front I agree with you, however they are paid throughout the duration of their contracts. Subsequently as long as the owners are convinced we will receive a fee to at least cover their initial fee we can recover the shortfall at a later date as we have not yet spent all all the premiership money
Click to expand...
What interests me is if someone activates the release clause but you don't agree payment terms or if the payment terms are standard. I.e. for Berge, it might be 35m but 22.5m is up front (refunding the original outlay) and the rest over his contract.

What happens then?
 
Mouth of the South said:
Haha - not his autobiography but The Art of the Deal is actually one of the biggest ever selling business books having sold over 1,000,000 copies.

They might all be a bit weird but you don't often meet a stupid billionaire.
Click to expand...
Not that he actually wrote it though...
 
Champagneblade said:
What interests me is if someone activates the release clause but you don't agree payment terms or if the payment terms are standard. I.e. for Berge, it might be 35m but 22.5m is up front (refunding the original outlay) and the rest over his contract.

What happens then?
Click to expand...
You can’t activate the release clause in that way release clauses have to be paid upfront in order to automatically trigger them. For example if that were the case you could offer an incredibly derogatory upfront fee of less than a million and promise the rest in nebulous add ons which may never be achieved. Clubs would be doing it every time a player had a release clause. If a club offered that kind of deal it would have to be a deal negotiated with United like any other and United can refuse it.
 
nopigfansintown said:
Yep. We also have a 45 million parachute this season; 35 million next season and 15 million the year after. Then factor in that we've waited until the eve of the season to add any wages. Players can leave, for the right money. If not they'd have gone already.
Click to expand...

We do have £45m, but don't forget that after the signings of McBurnie, Berge, Brewster and Bogle with Lowe for £11m, we probably still owe instalments on these players and those bills still need to be serviced. We didn't pay for them outright.

At a guess, a big guess, I'd say the majority of the £45m parachute payment is owed out
 
Blade58 said:
We do have £45m, but don't forget that after the signings of McBurnie, Berge, Brewster and Bogle with Lowe for £11m, we probably still owe instalments on these players and those bills still need to be serviced. We didn't pay for them outright.

At a guess, a big guess, I'd say the majority of the £45m parachute payment is owed out
Click to expand...

Surely that would come out of last year funds (or the ring fencing of said funds). If not we'll have a big chunk of that left. Same difference really.
 
Blade58 said:
We do have £45m, but don't forget that after the signings of McBurnie, Berge, Brewster and Bogle with Lowe for £11m, we probably still owe instalments on these players and those bills still need to be serviced. We didn't pay for them outright.

At a guess, a big guess, I'd say the majority of the £45m parachute payment is owed out
Click to expand...
What's the point is speculative guesses? If we can afford to reject the money we have so far we can't be as skint as that makes out
 
Bladey_blade said:
What's the point is speculative guesses? If we can afford to reject the money we have so far we can't be as skint as that makes out
Click to expand...

Yeah I’m guessing. We all are

Playing hardball on letting players leave is a bit novel for our club which is refreshing. Doesn’t mean we are loaded though and I’ll have another guess that one of the big boys will leave.

Perhaps because we are looking at loans and not laying out transfer fees might be a pointer though as to our financial position?

We’ll see
 

EddieColquhoun said:
The £40m was reported at the same time (and by the same "journos") as CW's sacking, the leaky roof and the Prince installing a Director of Football.
Click to expand...
The £40m is the difference between last seasons money from the PL and what we'll get from this season.
No one knows how the expenditure part of the budget has been adjusted to cope with relegation, but the £40m is not necessarily a 'deficit'
 
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