Deluded

[Sheff de party]

Are we as bad as Blackpool and Huddersfield in terms of quality in the team when they were in the PL? Or is the league just better now? Or was the players not good but the managers were?

Blackpool got 39 points! But still went down.
Huddersfield got 37 points! But stayed up.

My point is, teams with lesser quality of players have picked up a respectable points total so why can't we? Something don't seem right.

It is confidence. No one wants the ball or tries anything with it.

Ability-wise they are so much better than they’re playing. I’m afraid that is down to the manager.

 

[SUFCinks]

But Strange rant. I’ve seen statistically we are one of the worst side’s in Europe

It’s absolutely horrific.

We have some of the worst stats in europe and the worst in the prem on about 3/4 different metrics

• 8th Lowest shots in europe
• 9th lowest pass completion rate, our long ball completion is the 3rd lowest in europe.
• Highest saves made in europe
• Highest conceded shots in europe
• 3rd lowest shot creation actions per 90 in europe

I could probably find more if i kept digging. Basically it just confirms what we already know. We aren’t very good in many ways.

 

[moody1889]

The atmosphere is already turning toxic do you really want this carrying on for much longer we have seen it in the past where it has turned nasty.

I recall a section or our fans trying to turn over a car that Bryan Robson was in whilst screaming countless obscenities.

I know I never ever want to see such a things again and that was all caused by negative results/atmosphere down at the lane.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

The atmosphere is already turning toxic do you really want this carrying on for much longer we have seen it in the past where it has turned nasty.

I recall a section or our fans trying to turn over a car that Bryan Robson was in whilst screaming countless obscenities.

I know I never ever want to see such a things again and that was all caused by negative results/atmosphere down at the lane.

Hecky just had 2 quality seasons in a row, Robson did nothing with a strong squad. Very different I think.

(Not saying I agree with what happened to Robson their, that's awful)

 

[ekke287]

When relegated teams do well in the championship it’s usually on the back of a decent but unsuccessful PL campaign.

We’re not decent at this level, and the confidence is already shot. I’d suspect unless there’s significant improvement and soon, this team will struggle next season too.

 

[BettingBlade]

Accepting getting pumped every week but keeping the manager just because he might get us back up again is far more delusional than anything you’re arguing against here.

There’s absolutely no guarantees that we come straight back up, in fact if we kept Hecky and had to endure this complete and utter dross for the rest of the season, I dont see how we could be anywhere near favourites for promotion.

People under-estimate the affect a season full of this would have on the mentality of this group. We can already see confidence is shot and it’s clearly affecting performances and concentration.

Ndiaye, Berge and McAtee won us an outrageous amount of points last season. We wont have them for starters if we go down.

In terms of improving the squad, there will be more competition for loan players due to the calibre of teams that are in the Championship. We may have secured the club financially but not to the point where we will be able to splash the cash. Wages will be a huge sticking point again. The old guard will be another year older, Egan was already looking slower last season and we saw how results improved when Doyle replaced Norwood towards the end of last season.

Above all, we could see that Hecky had limitations as a manager last year and these are getting woefully exposed this season. IF he gets us up again next season, then what? Do you honestly think he will have improved as a manager tactically? Do we just settle for being this shit every time we get promoted?

I don’t disagree that he’s been dealt a shit hand but the fact that we’re so disorganised and such a shambles tactically is down to the manager. We’ve always been miles behind quality wise at this level but at a very minimum the managers have always made us difficult to beat.

 

[Yoonited]

With the exception of Hamer, Archer & Trusty (2 of which simply attempted to replace Ndiyae and Berge) the rest are just the dregs Hecky could afford from the meagre budget he had. Definitely one of the all time worst transfer windows of any Premier League team ever. (We bought Brewster in one of the other all time worsts)

Fuck me mate,you should have been around in the days of Martin Peters.You might truly appreciate the mirky ponds we were forced to fish in and some of the "dregs" we regularly witnessed donning the shirt as a consequence.

Dregs is a bit of a stretch.

We can't even begin to compare some of our younger developing players with Gibbs White at Florest,never mind those at established budget healthy Premier league clubs.
Think you're being a bit harsh

 

[wadblade]

Are we as bad as Blackpool and Huddersfield in terms of quality in the team when they were in the PL? Or is the league just better now? Or was the players not good but the managers were?

Blackpool got 39 points! But still went down.
Huddersfield got 37 points! But stayed up.

My point is, teams with lesser quality of players have picked up a respectable points total so why can't we? Something don't seem right.

We were terrible yesterday and I am more depressed than after Newcastle

However we won’t need 37points just one more than Burnley, Luton and Bournemouth [lets hope they stick with their manager]

And this weekends results leave us no further adrift, that’s the only positive I can take from this weekend

 

[Yoonited]

We were terrible yesterday and I am more depressed than after Newcastle

However we won’t need 37points just one more than Burnley, Luton and Bournemouth [lets hope they stick with their manager]

And this weekends results leave us no further adrift, that’s the only positive I can take from this weekend

It might not be unrealistic to think 30 or thereabouts might be the target,such is the divide.

 

[WF10BLADE]

To answer a point made up the thread, Hecky has been told he won't be judged on results for his 5 year contract. The Jim Royle bloke said that at a press conference the day he was appointed.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

Fuck me mate,you should have been around in the days of Martin Peters.You might truly appreciate the mirky ponds we were forced to fish in and some of the "dregs" we regularly witnessed donning the shirt as a consequence.

Dregs is a bit of a stretch.

We can't even begin to compare some of our younger developing players with Gibbs White at Florest,never mind those at established budget healthy Premier league clubs.
Think you're being a bit harsh

I'm talking by Premier League standards of course. The signings of Souza, Traore, Larouci, Thomas, Slimane. Teams that are seriously trying to stay in the Premier League dont sign players like those.

 

[reedy63]

we are not in a good position at the bottom of the table one point from 10 games. very awkward do you sack Hecky a skint owner who wants to sell up and seems to be taking ages over it. Can only get better as the song goes.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

I thought this was going to be about his BBC radio interview where he seemed surprised by the question re how easy we were to attack and thought it only meant for the goal.

But no. With a bit of luck and game management we beat Everton, spurs, draw against man city and Forest and everything is very different I don't think we have to or should be accepting this to continue. However I think keeping him is accepting it.

 

[Frank the tank]

Thinking that a new manager is going to solve our problems and save our season is totally deluded. The Prince hung Hecky out to dry with the Summer transfer budget and sale of Ndiyae and Berge. Its that simple.

It is what it is, we're going down, get over it.

In Hecky we have a manager I totally trust in the Championship, and that's where we're going thanks to the Pauper Prince. So stick by him I say.

Also, hypothetically, If Wilder comes in and we still go down like a lead balloon.. what's the plan then? Sack him too?

Quote one post where anyone has said any of that

 

[GymClassHero]

I've been firmly in the 'Hecky in' camp until now, but as others have rightly said I can accept losing but I can't accept going into every single match aiming to scrape a draw. It's so demoralizing

 

[dc_blade]

I’m not for sacking Hecky, yet. He has been dealt a very tough hand and deserves a bit more time to try and get things to click.

But, there’s no way that what we’re seeing at the moment is the best this squad can produce. With a bit of defensive organization and some team spirit, we should at least be difficult to break down.

I’d gladly change owners tomorrow, if we found someone with more money who also wasn’t a nutter. But that doesn’t look like happening and we need something to change in the short term.

 

[Willie Carlin]

Not sure who you are talking to but most on here have been saying all this for weeks,not very revolutionary.

Thinking that a new manager is going to solve our problems and save our season is totally deluded. The Prince hung Hecky out to dry with the Summer transfer budget and sale of Ndiyae and Berge. Its that simple.

It is what it is, we're going down, get over it.

In Hecky we have a manager I totally trust in the Championship, and that's where we're going thanks to the Pauper Prince. So stick by him I say.

Also, hypothetically, If Wilder comes in and we still go down like a lead balloon.. what's the plan then? Sack him too?

It’s only a matter of weeks since Hecky was the best thing since sliced Bread getting us promoted.

 

[Stegosaurus]

The Prince hung Hecky out to dry with the Summer transfer budget and sale of Ndiyae and Berge. Its that simple.

Hi Stegosaurus here,

He didn't have much money to spend, but Hecky didn't help matters.

He spaffed money giving Fleck a new contract, instead of putting his 20 grand + wages plus signing fee plus agent fees towards getting a CB on a free.
He spent 4 million on Trusty and only now, reluctantly started him, despite Fleck being shit.
He spaffed 2 million on Slimane who I don't think has kicked a ball yet
He spaffed a contract on Davies who looks like he's spent the last 6 months binge eating at McDonalds.

 

[PaddysMad]

Managers come and go like players stupid thread.

 

[Yoonited]

I'm talking by Premier League standards of course. The signings of Souza, Traore, Larouci, Thomas, Slimane. Teams that are seriously trying to stay in the Premier League dont sign players like those.

It's entirely possible Hecky thinks it's 2 steps forward and 1 back,ie planning for next season,heading back to the Championship with players better experienced and prepared for a promotion and subsequent tilt at the prem in 2 seasons.
The alternative might be overstretching the budget to secure prem players who are likely to want relegation clauses,a la Doyle.
Arguably he may well have narrowed the small margins.

 

[FriethBlade]

If you don't have the players to out football other sides you have to make yourself difficult ult to beat. We aren't doing either and each defeat saps morale still further.

We know the players aren't good enough but they have to show some fight, look like they care and run their bollocks off. They aren't doing that, why?

I wasn't in the Hecky out camp but he seems incapable of changing tactics, we're playing 2 upfront who are getting no service and being completely over run in midfield. That has to change and quick. However the midfield enforcer he signed doesn't seem capable of enforcing anything and Hamer and Archer after looking good for one game just aren't contributing and he thought Basham was better than Trusty.

So his tactics aren't working, his signings aren't performing and at present he seems incapable of motivating the players.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

Hi Stegosaurus here,

He didn't have much money to spend, but Hecky didn't help matters.

He spaffed money giving Fleck a new contract, instead of putting his 20 grand + wages plus signing fee plus agent fees towards getting a CB on a free.
He spent 4 million on Trusty and only now, reluctantly started him, despite Fleck being shit.
He spaffed 2 million on Slimane who I don't think has kicked a ball yet
He spaffed a contract on Davies who looks like he's spent the last 6 months binge eating at McDonalds.

Well he had to gamble didn't he with the joke budget he had? Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

 

[Davalon]

Thinking that a new manager is going to solve our problems and save our season is totally deluded. The Prince hung Hecky out to dry with the Summer transfer budget and sale of Ndiyae and Berge. Its that simple.

It is what it is, we're going down, get over it.

In Hecky we have a manager I totally trust in the Championship, and that's where we're going thanks to the Pauper Prince. So stick by him I say.

Also, hypothetically, If Wilder comes in and we still go down like a lead balloon.. what's the plan then? Sack him too?

We sack Wilder, then get Warmock, just giving some enough time to justify the clamour for Billy.

I'm sure some would prefer Sean Bean to a 'southern twat' or a 'johnny forrinnah'

 

[Stegosaurus]

Well he had to gamble didn't he with the joke budget he had? Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

Hi Stegosaurus here,

True--but there were other options out there. Conor Coady, for example, would have helped shore up our defence but went a division DOWN.

 

[sheff_blade90]

i said yesterday will be forever grateful for the promotion.

it wouldnt be so bad if you can see progress. but this the 3rd week of this now, although others say longer. or heckingbottom was being realistic in his press conference. that was more terrifying than the performance. because it was dare i say like adkins. he was talking about a completely different game. youve got radio sheffield talking about it being daylight robbery if we held on, asaba saying it shouldve been 7 & he thinks we were comfortable until it went 2-1. thats v fulham a winnable game

i will give anyone time if you see progress but we are getting worse. we are wide open defensively & created little offensively. the only surprise about fulham scoring was it took that long. you cannot be as consistently bad defensively & expect to get anything from any level of football. sadly i think unless we see progress which is unlikely because he didnt change yesterday when we were getting ripped apart his days are numbered

 

[Sheff de party]

If you don't have the players to out football other sides you have to make yourself difficult ult to beat. We aren't doing either and each defeat saps morale still further.

We know the players aren't good enough but they have to show some fight, look like they care and run their bollocks off. They aren't doing that, why?

I wasn't in the Hecky out camp but he seems incapable of changing tactics, we're playing 2 upfront who are getting no service and being completely over run in midfield. That has to change and quick. However the midfield enforcer he signed doesn't seem capable of enforcing anything and Hamer and Archer after looking good for one game just aren't contributing and he thought Basham was better than Trusty.

So his tactics aren't working, his signings aren't performing and at present he seems incapable of motivating the players.

I disagree that they’re not good enough. They’ve shown defensively against Spurs and City that they are. We’d have beaten Everton but for a brilliant double save and some serious bad luck.

The issue is we simply don’t look like winning games. Fulham aren’t very good, but we could have been 3 down at half time. It just looks inevitable we will concede and then there’s no hope of getting back from 2 down.

It’s confidence. We look bereft of ideas, no one wants the ball and there’s no clear plan of how to attack or defend. Changing the manager might change it, it might not. But if we don’t, it definitely won’t change.

I know he’s done really well to get us here but I don’t get the argument for keeping him.

 

[Sheff de party]

The argument for keeping Hecky as far as I can tell is one of the following:

“He deserves his chance.” I’m sorry, but this is professional football and there’s no room for sentiment.

“There is no one else.” Often bandied around, categorically untrue. There are lots of talented managers who’d relish a crack at the Prem.

“He can turn it around.” Fair enough if you think that. I don’t.

“He can get us back up”. He’s far from the only person who could get this squad, with parachute payments, promoted.

“no one else would do a better job.” I simply don’t agree. We have looked lost in almost every game. We look shattered from the Newcastle defeat. A new manager lifts all that.

he’s done a hell of a lot for us, an excellent job. Personally, if it were my club, I’d sack him and get someone in who can give us a fighting chance. But if the Prince keeps him, fair enough.

 

[WF10BLADE]

The argument for keeping Hecky as far as I can tell is one of the following:

“He deserves his chance.” I’m sorry, but this is professional football and there’s no room for sentiment.

“There is no one else.” Often bandied around, categorically untrue. There are lots of talented managers who’d relish a crack at the Prem.

“He can turn it around.” Fair enough if you think that. I don’t.

“He can get us back up”. He’s far from the only person who could get this squad, with parachute payments, promoted.

“no one else would do a better job.” I simply don’t agree. We have looked lost in almost every game. We look shattered from the Newcastle defeat. A new manager lifts all that.

he’s done a hell of a lot for us, an excellent job. Personally, if it were my club, I’d sack him and get someone in who can give us a fighting chance. But if the Prince keeps him, fair enough.

You and several others obviously missed the press conference on the day Hecky took over. I'm paraphrasing, but something like here for 5 years and won't be judged on results.

Hecky is contracted for another 3 years.

The board have admitted there is no money and have probably spent one of the lowest net of any promotion winning side.

Unless some fuckwit with more money than sense agrees to the chairman's ridiculous valuation of the club nothing is going to change.

 

[blade67]

Oh yay, his lack of tactical nous in the championship without the quality of Ndiaye to pull us out. Woo.

This is the problem isn't it?

Ndayie is looking like the key to our success last year, not just goals and assists but his ability to hold the ball and bring others in.

Hecky has shown many qualities in his 2 years. Excellent man management, decent recruitment, organisational skills and strong communication.

His drawbacks have been around tactical innovation and that still looks a problem, that might be the end of him, unless results change very quickly.

 

[JohnDenver]

I've been firmly in the 'Hecky in' camp until now, but as others have rightly said I can accept losing but I can't accept going into every single match aiming to scrape a draw. It's so demoralizing

But that’s not really what’s being attempted. We’re playing two up front every game. We’ve even played McAtee in behind a front two. This is miles away from what Warnock did back in 06/07. Even Wilder flattened the midfield three.

To my eye, performances have turned worryingly ugly since we tried to be more expansive and develop an attacking pattern. I admire Hecky for aiming to achieve this, but it’s high risk stuff and we’re being eviscerated.

Forest are our lesson from history. After their promotion team was dismantled they were an utter shambles for months. Only by late season did they start to look like a team. This after spending many multiples of our budget.

So I’d be happy for us to go 4-5-1 and make games ugly for as long as we can. Sod the entertainment business - let’s develop this new team one step at a time.