FAO Anyone who questions the shape and system we're playing: You're talking nonsense

[JJBlade]

Absolute bollocks. Do your NI contributions cover the entirety of your pension?! No, so where does the difference come from?! Nice try though, you nearly sounded like you knew what you were on about.

Try not paying NIC's then
Everybody else will get their state pension and the only person who won't is you

If you don't have 10 years contributions you get zilch

To qualify for maximum state pension you need 35 years NI contributions

 

[Bashamed]

Did Clough ever rip on the supporters calling them computer managers and that they talk nonsense? If he did I put my hands up.

Clough said 'There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes'

 

[stringer]

The comments he made were directed at anyone who dared to question the system/shape we play. Just uncalled for.

Were they? How do you know?

 

[mcbladeface]

So just catching up here but what I'm getting from this is that recently Wilder has a pop at "playstation managers" who think they know better and a guy with the cover of the game Football Manager 2012 as his userpic and who has the initials in his username is really offended by this for some mystifying reason?

 

[Houston_Blade]

Try not paying NIC's then
Everybody else will get their state pension and the only person who won't is you

If you don't have 10 years contributions you get zilch

To qualify for maximum state pension you need 35 years NI contributions

Think about what you’re saying. Are you saying that your NIC’s cover your full state pension?! If you do I’d suggest you do some maths. Someone can pay £50 a month in NI for 35 years and they get full state pension for the rest of their life, you said it yourself.

You get £9,100 a year in pension so who’s paying for the rest once the NIC contributions you’ve paid in have been used up after the first 2 and a bit years?!

I’ll give you a clue, other people’s taxes and NIC’s.

Like I said, good try at making a point, try harder next time.

 

[FMBlade1]

Were they? How do you know?

'People talk nonsense yet again about shapes, systems...'

Which people do you think he is aiming that at?

 

[JJBlade]

Think about what you’re saying. Are you saying that your NIC’s cover your full state pension?! If you do I’d suggest you do some maths. Someone can pay £50 a month in NI for 35 years and they get full state pension for the rest of their life, you said it yourself.

You get £9,100 a year in pension so who’s paying for the rest once the NIC contributions you’ve paid in have been used up after the first 2 and a bit years?!

I’ll give you a clue, other people’s taxes and NIC’s.

Like I said, good try at making a point, try harder next time.

Where do you think it comes from ?

It's your NI track record over a minimum of 35 years to qualify for maximum state pension.

35 years to qualify by paying NIC's, but in reality most people will pay 40-45 years.

And £50 a month NIC's ?
I'd study your wage slip again if I were you.

Your state pension will be paid to you for an average of 16 years.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Where do you think it comes from ?

It's your NI track record over a minimum of 35 years to qualify for maximum state pension.

35 years to qualify by paying NIC's, but in reality most people will pay 40-45 years.

And £50 a month NIC's ?
I'd study your wage slip again if I were you.

Your state pension will be paid to you for an average of 16 years.

The government pension is a not a money purchase scheme, it’s extremely simple to grasp. You don’t have to pay in the amount that you get out, it doesn’t work like that. If you’re a millionaire earning £500k a year or a minimum wage earner you still get the same out as long as you meet the NIC threshold level.

I gave an example of someone paying £50 a month. It’s possible. It’s not hard for you to back down on this one without looking even more stupid. Just get a pen and a calculator, If you need my help just give me a shout.

Come on, don’t be an internet div and insist you’re right when you’re not.

 

[JJBlade]

The government pension is a not a money purchase scheme, it’s extremely simple to grasp. You don’t have to pay in the amount that you get out, it doesn’t work like that. If you’re a millionaire earning £500k a year or a minimum wage earner you still get the same out as long as you meet the NIC threshold level.

I gave an example of someone paying £50 a month. It’s possible. It’s not hard for you to back down on this one without looking even more stupid. Just get a pen and a calculator, If you need my help just give me a shout.

Come on, don’t be an internet div and insist you’re right when you’re not.

Ok, know all
You're completely, totally and utterly wrong.
State Pension is paid for on a conveyor belt arrangement

The overwhelming majority (the workforce) pay NI for the minority ( the OAP's)

To qualify for maximum state pension at the end of the conveyor belt (when you retire) you must have contributed 35 years of NI.

If you haven't or couldn't make 35 years contributions you can buy extra state pension by paying the missing NI contributions if you wanted to.

The problem we have is that the minority (the OAP's) are becoming a much larger minority, hence the Government increasing state retirement age from 65 to 66, then 67 and then 68 depending on your age now.
And it will increase again, of that there is no doubt

 

[Houston_Blade]

Ok, know all
You're completely, totally and utterly wrong.
State Pension is paid for on a conveyor belt arrangement

The overwhelming majority (the workforce) pay NI for the minority ( the OAP's)

To qualify for maximum state pension at the end of the conveyor belt (when you retire) you must have contributed 35 years of NI.

If you haven't or couldn't make 35 years contributions you can buy extra state pension by paying the missing NI contributions if you wanted to.

The problem we have is that the minority (the OAP's) are becoming a much larger minority, hence the Government increasing state retirement age from 65 to 66, then 67 and then 68 depending on your age now.
And it will increase again, of that there is no doubt

It’s hard work this. It’s way past my bedtime but I’ve just binged on a few episodes of the Boys to get it finished.

If you think that my NIC and tax £‘s aren’t going towards other people’s pensions then you’ve completely contradicted what you’ve said above. That was the original point and you seem to have now agreed with me whilst at the same time saying I’m wrong.

The problem is I am a know all, I employ and pay the wages of 30 odd people so it pays to know shit like this for the older ones when they start asking towards retirement age.

 

[JJBlade]

It’s hard work this. It’s way past my bedtime but I’ve just binged on a few episodes of the Boys to get it finished.

If you think that my NIC and tax £‘s aren’t going towards other people’s pensions then you’ve completely contradicted what you’ve said above. That was the original point and you seem to have now agreed with me whilst at the same time saying I’m wrong.

The problem is I am a know all, I employ and pay the wages of 30 odd people so it pays to know shit like this for the older ones when they start asking towards retirement age.

Yes I get your point about paying other peoples pensions now, but that's how the system works.

The state pension is paid for by NI contributions, everyone that qualifies only qualifies based on their own track record.

So all pensioners with state pension benefits have qualified based on the fact that they've paid NIC's for most of their lives, so it's not entirely correct to suggest you're paying it.

You're a part of the conveyor belt system, you pay NIC's for todays elderly whilst securing your own pension benefits, and the younger will pay yours through their NI contributions providing you have paid enough NIC's to qualify

 

[MalvernBlade]

Perhaps I can come across as bit too sensitive and touchy, though I have a simple approach, give credit where it's due and constructively (never abusively) criticize when I feel it's appropriate in my opinion, which is what forums are all about:

Well done Wilder | S24SU Forum | Sheffield United Community

I don't think there have been many outlandish comments on here and beyond about our system, it's not like people are saying play 3-3-4!

I said something similar when we were in full hoof mode to mcb's head though I was being flippant however we may as well now just for a laugh. Good thread tho

 

[Houston_Blade]

Yes I get your point about paying other peoples pensions now, but that's how the system works.

The state pension is paid for by NI contributions, everyone that qualifies only qualifies based on their own track record.

So all pensioners with state pension benefits have qualified based on the fact that they've paid NIC's for most of their lives, so it's not entirely correct to suggest you're paying it.

You're a part of the conveyor belt system, you pay NIC's for todays elderly whilst securing your own pension benefits, and the younger will pay yours through their NI contributions providing you have paid enough NIC's to qualify

I don’t care about the timing of the payments, the simple fact is that it’s not a money purchase scheme. So you don’t get out what YOU put in.

You get a set amount paid for by a combination of your own contributions and those of others plus other methods of government funding (taxes, bonds etc etc). I really don’t get why it’s so hard for you to understand.

 

[Sheff de party]

Wilder's words not mine:



4 minutes 20 seconds in.

Goes along with the 'Playstation manager' comments

Stay Classy Chris

He doesn’t help himself with the rubbish he talks about PlayStation managers.

We’ve had the worst start in PL history. There’s nothing wrong with questioning the team, tactics or shape and it takes an incredible level of either delusion or arrogance to believe otherwise.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

He doesn’t help himself with the rubbish he talks about PlayStation managers.

We’ve had the worst start in PL history. There’s nothing wrong with questioning the team, tactics or shape and it takes an incredible level of either delusion or arrogance to believe otherwise.

That’s pretty much my view. Of course he knows better than any of us, that’s a given. I just don’t like it when his ego and stubbornness starts showing. Maybe show a bit of humility and understanding towards keen amateurs questioning the system, especially when overseeing this horror show of a season. Save the sneering and being cocksure for when we’re performing much much better than we are at the moment.

 

[JJBlade]

I don’t care about the timing of the payments, the simple fact is that it’s not a money purchase scheme. So you don’t get out what YOU put in.

You get a set amount paid for by a combination of your own contributions and those of others plus other methods of government funding (taxes, bonds etc etc). I really don’t get why it’s so hard for you to understand.

I understand the state pension system very well pal
I know damn well it's not a Money Purchase Pension Scheme.

It's paid to you via your National Insurance track record, not your Income Tax Record

If you were a multi billionaire and paid a million pounds in income tax each week, you would get no state pension if you didn't pay National Insurance

 

[United Aren't Back.]

Well that's your take, fair enough, forums are about opinions. He wasn't asked about shape/systems or the fans and then went out of his way to bring it up and sneer at fans.

I don't know where he is listening to these fans though, does he spend time on social media?

And pundits should not be sneered at either, some have expertise he should look to draw

No, the difference is, he's just being a mardy arse.

Can anyone look at his bitter, twisted, narrow eyed face and not see a mardy prat these days?

 

[United Aren't Back.]

No I dont thats why he hasnt said it, but he maybe thinking it
Wilder is a fan, not a fan that goes in executive boxes but a fan that used to stand on the terraces with his mates

Do you actually believe that?

 

[United Aren't Back.]

It worked well against Chelsea and Spurs more recently, but if you want to knock then just refer back to league 1 instead.

I’m pretty sure you’ll be the first person they call when we need a new manager or some advice though.

I'm worried who they will call.
I suppose that's why Chris is still in a job.
The likes of Pulis, Pardew etc turning up is a sad scary, horrific prospect.

 

[Webding]

Come for the tactics discourse, stay for the welfare state chat

 

[Badger Blade]

That’s pretty much my view. Of course he knows better than any of us, that’s a given. I just don’t like it when his ego and stubbornness starts showing. Maybe show a bit of humility and understanding towards keen amateurs questioning the system, especially when overseeing this horror show of a season. Save the sneering and being cocksure for when we’re performing much much better than we are at the moment.

My sentiment exactly. If he was to somehow win 10 games between now and the end of the season and stay up with the rabble he's assembled then I'll quite happily hear him rant away and say that the playstation managers were all wrong and he was right all along. It's clear he has no more answers to the issues than we do at this point.
We can all see that his goalkeeper has wrists like breadsticks, defenders with the concentration levels of a goldfish, midfield that can't pass water and strikers than can't hit a barn door but he won't make wholesale changes due to a combination of a lack of squad depth and ego and that lies squarely at his door and whoever has been advising him.

 

[gordoncharles]

Where do you think it comes from ?

It's your NI track record over a minimum of 35 years to qualify for maximum state pension.

35 years to qualify by paying NIC's, but in reality most people will pay 40-45 years.

And £50 a month NIC's ?
I'd study your wage slip again if I were you.

Your state pension will be paid to you for an average of 16 years.

This is a well-known scene from Blackadder II

Percy: Do not despair! For I have some small savings carefully harvested from my weekly allowance, set aside against my frail old age. By lucky haps, it is just over a thousand, methinks, and for years has been hidden beyond the wit of any thief, in an old sock...

Percy and Blackadder:...under the squeaky floorboard...

Percy, Blackadder and Baldrick: ...behind the kitchen dresser.

Percy: [smiles uneasily] You've seen it, then.

Blackadder: Seen it, pinched it, spent it

Can we just leave any discussion about how governments treat your NIC contributions with that allegory?

 

[United Aren't Back.]

I know a couple of league football managers and a few EFL players and it’s a good job that they don’t say what they think about the fans of their clubs. They have zero respect for the opinions of fans and the players I know see fans as some kind of oddity to be laughed at. I can kind of see their point because they tend to think of them as the middle aged blokes who wear 10,000 pin badges on a match day, or the 50 year old, overweight woman with a tight fitting club shirt with the name a of 22 year old bloke on it.

Let’s face it, some fans are weirdos.

I recall back in the 80s a Newcastle United chairman was recorded saying Derogatory things about the fans.
I recall some East European player at Barnsley calling the women of Barnsley slappers.

 

[JJBlade]

This is a well-known scene from Blackadder II

Percy: Do not despair! For I have some small savings carefully harvested from my weekly allowance, set aside against my frail old age. By lucky haps, it is just over a thousand, methinks, and for years has been hidden beyond the wit of any thief, in an old sock...

Percy and Blackadder:...under the squeaky floorboard...

Percy, Blackadder and Baldrick: ...behind the kitchen dresser.

Percy: [smiles uneasily] You've seen it, then.

Blackadder: Seen it, pinched it, spent it

Can we just leave any discussion about how governments treat your NIC contributions with that allegory?

Yes
But at least you realise it comes from your NI track record

 

[stringer]

'People talk nonsense yet again about shapes, systems...'

Which people do you think he is aiming that at?

People do talk nonsense about shapes and systems.
It’s directed at those people, not ‘anyone who dared to question the system/shape we play’.
Do you genuinely not see the difference?

 

[Houston_Blade]

I understand the state pension system very well pal
I know damn well it's not a Money Purchase Pension Scheme.

It's paid to you via your National Insurance track record, not your Income Tax Record

If you were a multi billionaire and paid a million pounds in income tax each week, you would get no state pension if you didn't pay National Insurance

Back to the original point though, if you pay in less than you receive out then other people are paying for your pension. Simple concept

 

[stringer]

Do you actually believe that?

 

[gordoncharles]

Back to the original point though, if you pay in less than you receive out then other people are paying for your pension. Simple concept

That's absolutely any insurance scheme, ever, derek

 

[GymClassHero]

You're only as good as your last game and our last game and most of the preceding ones have been utterly atrocious. Based on what we've seen, I think we have every right to pass judgement whether that's signings, systems or anything else.
We knew last season would be a tough act to follow but we'd at least have expected to be competitive but we're so far away it's embarrassing. As the man who signs the players, picks the team and implements the "system", the buck stops with him and no matter what excuses he makes, the performances have been appalling and is down to him to either realise there's a problem and fix it or bugger off so we can find someone who can.

Hard to argue with any of that tbh mate.

 

[JJBlade]

You pay in for 45 years on average
You take out for 16 years on average

You can see where the sums theoretically add up.

There are 35 million people paying NI
There are 11.5 million taking a state pension

You can see where the sums theoretically add up

The average NI Contribution in the UK is £205 a month, not £50

You can see where the sums theoretically add up

It's a hand to mouth system. You secure your own state pension by contributing NI whilst providing the money for the pensioners of today, who in turn provided the money for yesterday's pensioners. Yours will be provided with money from younger peoples NI contributions, but only if you have contributed sufficiently yourself.

Everyone that receives state pension has paid for it themselves, because if you don't pay, you don't get.

It isn't something you should be playing the high and mighty about "I'm paying for your pension"

It isn't handing out dole money to some workshy layabout and it isn't paying some jack the lad with a glass back some form of sickness benefit.

The system only works for those who have paid in

Back to the original point though, if you pay in less than you receive out then other people are paying for your pension. Simple concept