What Sammon Brings

[DronnieBlade]

Opinions on this subject appear to be diverse (as ever) !

The only one that counts is that of Adkins.

Maybe I am wrong but it looks to me that when Done and Sharp are fit, they will be his first choice.

Sammon is at best 3rd choice striker and maybe even as low as 6th choice striker (behind Adams AND Flynn AND Baxter) judging on the offensive players that have been used ahead of Sammon from the bench in recent games.

£10k + per week for a striker that is that far down the pecking order at a L1 club is, bluntly, shambolic and is a bad reflection of the players actual contribution overall and the bad decision to loan him in the first place as things stand.

I know that hindsight is a wonderful think but, If we have chosen Sammon at the beginning of the season and committed > £500k over the course of the season towards his capture above ANY NUMBER of alternatives we could have potentially had on these wages (and much less) than I for one as a fan would consider this to have been, so far, a bad decision.

That's my two penneth. Some agree some don't. C'est la vie !!!

UTB

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Sammon isn't one of the "bloated squad" that's going to be moved out this January, the terms of his move don't allow for it. We need to accustom ourselves to him being the "big man" option this season. It's a fait accompli.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

A striker who isn't judged on his striking abilities.

What's his assists record? Or do we not count that either?

What DO we count?

Baldness?

 

[Grappler]

The Conor Sammon invitational XI
1 Alan Carr GK
2 Charles Haughty RB
3 Kenneth Williams LB
4 David Walliams CM
5 Graham Norton CB
6 Quentin Crisp CB
7 Dick Emery (Nippy winger)
8 Frank Spencer CM
9 Danny la Rue (fox in the box)
10 Julian Clary (In the hole)
11 Louis Spencer (nippy winger)
12 Connor Sammon (on the bench)

Graham Norton injured, Larry Grayson on in his place

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Graham Norton injured, Larry Grayson on in his place

Shut that door!

 

[BushBlade]

Graham Norton injured, Larry Grayson on in his place

Robbie Keane.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Shut that door!

Bollocks! Forgot about Larry. Maybe get him on a free.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

1 Billy Sharp 0 13 0 13
2 Che Adams 0 6 0 6
2 Conor Sammon 1 5 0 6
3 Jose Baxter 1 4 0 5
3 Matt Done 1 4 0 5
3 Michael Higdon 0 5 0 5
4 Neill Collins 0 3 1 4
5 Chris Basham 0 3 0 3
6 Dominic Calvert-Lewin 1 0 0 1
6 David Edgar 0 1 0 1
6 Kieron Freeman 1 0 0 1
6 Dean Hammond 0 1 0 1
6 Martyn Woolford 0 1 0 1


Joint second top scorer this season and on course for around 10-11 goals for the season if he played most of the remaining games. Not terrible for the 2nd striker if you've got a main one bagging 20-25 goals. But if it was just about goals scored per player, surely we would line up with

-----------------------------Long

Freeman--------Edgar---------Collins----Woolford

Adams----------Basham----Baxter-------Done

--------------------Sharp-----Sammon

With Higdon regularly coming off the bench. We'd then be shoe ins for promotion.

 

[sheffielder]

Well, he wasn't on the pitch for 4 or 5 of them. He should have been awarded a pen first half v Peterborough though before Sharp won the one he scored himself.

But it's not just about direct assists. The point is that if Sharp is always having to receive the ball, play with his back to goal and do all of the dirty work, he spends less time higher up the pitch in and around the box. Edwards was complaining about how deep Sharp was having to come for the ball v Wigan for most of the game. When Sammon plays, Sharp plays a different role which means he spends more time in and around the box.

I understand what you're saying, but Sharp has done better with Sammon being out of the side. Done is far harder to defend against than Sammon which helps Sharp. The problem people have with Sammon is that he doesn't do the dirty work some of you say he does and it ends up with Sharp doing it. At least Done keeps a defence honest. Personally I don't really agree with the target man, and believe we should be looking for power and pace alongside Sharp. Someone of the ilk of like Sordell or Vaughan. as a defender or midfielder you would be more likely to play a ball down the channel with one of those strikers, which would be better than trying to get Sammon to hold something up.

Can I ask who Sammon is meant to be holding the ball up for anyway. Is the marauding Basham, Woolford, Hammond or Coutts?

 

[Treeton Blade]

We should sign his brother, at least this one can head the f*****g ball

 

[biggey blade]

Because unfortunately, we only have one of Billy Sharp and if he is doing the “target man” role, he doesn’t carry nearly the same goal threat. Look how he struggled when he was playing alongside Adams as an example (1 goal in 10 was it?). If we had 2 of him, I would agree but this thread isn’t suggesting Sammon over Sharp, it’s suggesting Sammon to get the best out of Sharp.

I disagree yes sharp went through that patch where he wasn't scoring, but I don't think that is fair to blame on adams. I think it was more to do with the fact he hadn't scored for a while and knocked his confidence we all know how passionate sharp is for the blades, and think it was more to do with he was feeling pressured to start scoring again. Once he got his first goal he then found his confidence back and started scoring again.

I also disagree with you saying sammon brings the best out in sharp. I feel sharp finds him self trying to cover more ground when sammon is playing as he is covering more space for him leaving himself out of position at times. He is a goal scorer and should be picking the ball up around or in the box. How many times did we see him playing with sammon and picking the ball up out on the wing or no where near the box with a lot of work left to do. Where as when he is playing with done done covers a lot of ground as well and sharp and then they can both try and pick the ball up and fed it to one another in the box or just put side letting one of the 2 have a go at goal. Agreed I don't think this partnership is perfect and some times they are to spread apart and it is like playing with a lone striker as they loose the partnership element but I would much rather have 2 player upfront who are willing to cover the ground and who can both score. Where as sammon seems to struggle with both of these things.

I honestly don't think sammon is good enough and we need to get rid. And I know I am not the only person that shares this opinion and unfortunately no one can change my mind as sammon has made my mind up for me. He has had long enough to now to prove he is the man for us and I haven't seen it from him.

 

[Darthblade]

I didn't go but it sounds like we missed Sammon today. Saw these two in another thread.





This has happened to us in other games, the most obvious was Bradford away - I think. On that day we brought on Sammon and he changed the game by occupying their defenders. He'd done it before and he's done it since and not always as a sub.

This is one of the things he brings to the game.

Today Adkins said in his interview he put on Baxter to try to get on the ball and play Sharp in, worth a try but again it sounds like it didn't work. Sammon has done this job numerous times this season: holding up the ball releasing pressure and bringing things together.

We're missing him. I'm guessing he's low on confidence in part bc he's the latest scapegoat.

I hope he gets his confidence back because we need him.

I don't think he's the latest scapegoat at all ...... he has never been a goalscorer in his entire career and was never what we wanted or needed but he's what we were told to make do with !!

We need a proper goal threat to play up front with Sharp or Done and have needed this for several years ...... its been the story of the "emperors new clothes" re-enacted by SUFC.

As usual for SUFC; we are "spoiling the ship for a hapoth of tar" in time honoured fashion. We are probably three / four players short of a side who can get into and realistically compete in this seasons play-offs, but regrettably, despite the fans delivering the goods week after week in this agricultural Division, the Club will continue to steadfastly refuse to deliver for us !!

UTB & FTP

 

[Slug]

He seems to be getting a lot of stick on here for his work rate but i have just been up to Shirecliffe and saw him stay behind after the others had left to work on his ball control.

I took this video to prove it and if you look closely i think that may well be WHF behind him telling anyone who will listen what a great job he is doing at it

 

[Darthblade]

Not most, some but anyway...

As I see it we are not set up for Big Man/Little Man flick on and chase after it. Our midfield is disconnected enough as it is without having Billy disappear even further up the pitch - and in the meantime knackering himself out to little or no effect.

Instead the player we need is someone who can hold it up wait (and wait and wait) for the midfield to (eventually) catch up, then lay it off and we can try and play football as a team from there. Conor Sammon is that player.

(He's also relatively agile, has good stamina and can harass defences for the duration of a game so they don't settle.)

He was extremely good at all this earlier in the season: the ball would stick to various parts of his anatomy, sometimes bizarrely, and he'd bring the rest of the team into the game with a good, well-timed short pass, often in a tight area.

As for the general challenging for headers it seems to me that one aspect of modern football is to not challenge too strongly for some headers and instead basically let the opposition win the ball but have an overload on the second ball so they win the header but you win possession. I'm not saying this happens all the time, of course it doesn't, but it seems like one way the game has developed. There are definitely times when the ball is headed in midfield and one team simply doesn't challenge for it. In the meantime older, grumpier fans are shouting, "Challenge!!"

I've got the Secret Footballer's Guide to the Modern Game hoping to further unravel some of the mysteries for me. The game has moved on in all sorts of ways since I learned it as a kid and played as a grown up. I think this business of not bothering so much with some headers might be one of them.

Without Sammon (or similar) playing well we've got:

• Done making random runs, but not gaining possession - as quoted in OP (and predicted before the game) - adding to the pressure on our back line (but carrying a goal threat)
• Adams - for now imo a bit out of his depth - not keeping possession, not really defending from the front but more positively often looking most on Billy's wavelength and sometimes carrying a goal threat
• Baxter as suggested on here and tried on Satdi with apparently limited effect

Support Sammon, get him confident again, and working at what works for us and we'll make the play-offs.

UTMB

I find myself agreeing with most of what you are saying except for;

a) Conor Sammon is that player and ...
b) Support Sammon, get him confident again, and working at what works for us and we'll make the play-offs

I just do not believe he's got that in him on a consistent basis and that's what we NEED to have a chance at play-offs .... oh and a decent dominant CH to play with Edgar, a quality GK and a midfield general .....

UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

View attachment 15514

I'd interpret these stats differently.



Given the above, no case to answer m'lud.



But as he's not a goalscorer his goalscoring record is not at issue. There are plenty of forwards who have been similarly, and unreasonably, criticised.

After only scoring twice in his opening sixteen games for the club, Sammon was criticised by fans for a lack of goals, however Clough said he was happy with Sammon, stating the his work-rate was keeping him the starting line-up ahead of Nathan Tysonwho had a better strike rate.[28] His style of play meant that he frequently held up the ball and provided and assists for teammates. Clough particularly praised his "absolutely superb" performance in the 2–1 win against Ipswich Town on 23 October, where he provided assists for Theo Robinson and Tyson.[29]



This is just a made up non-statistic. Here's a unicorn to go with it.

View attachment 15515



Trapattoni suggested that Sammon and his Derby team-mate Jeff Hendrick should be playing in the Premier League: "they play Championship, and I have to ask why when I see the games in the Premier League and the way they play with us. Quality is quality."[



View attachment 15512 View attachment 15513

Not his job.

Aisi:

1. He's being criticised (in the main) for not doing things he's not meant to do.
2. His strong points and usefulness to the way we play are not being recognised.

This is to the detriment of the club.

UTMB

I agree here ..... he should be playing in the Premiership !!

May I respectfully suggest to Liverpool that if they need a proven CF to get them out of their current slump ....... Sammon is their guy !!

For a small fee we can "broker a deal" with Derby to secure his services .......

UTB & FTP

 

[Slug]

View attachment 15514

I'd interpret these stats differently.

I'd interpret them stats as him being a bit shit. I would be correct

 

[spongebobblade]

Low enough that when he doesn’t play, we lose to a Crewe side who hadn’t won a game since God was a lad.

If only we could genuinely blame it on Sammons absence

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I understand what you're saying, but Sharp has done better with Sammon being out of the side. Done is far harder to defend against than Sammon which helps Sharp. The problem people have with Sammon is that he doesn't do the dirty work some of you say he does and it ends up with Sharp doing it. At least Done keeps a defence honest. Personally I don't really agree with the target man, and believe we should be looking for power and pace alongside Sharp. Someone of the ilk of like Sordell or Vaughan. as a defender or midfielder you would be more likely to play a ball down the channel with one of those strikers, which would be better than trying to get Sammon to hold something up.

Can I ask who Sammon is meant to be holding the ball up for anyway. Is the marauding Basham, Woolford, Hammond or Coutts?

I think what you say about Sharp doing better with Sammon out of the team and what Done contributes is true- but only some of the time. But there are times in games where we struggle for an out-ball when the opposition press us high up the pitch. Sammon works the channels better than Done for me and is better with his back to goal. He wins throws and corners high up the pitch to allow others to play and allowing Sharp to get into the box and have a chance of getting on the end of something. Done gives defenses a different problem with runs in behind and harrying defenders in possession. Whilst neither is the perfect partner for Sharp, I think there are times when each might be more effective than the other. I’m not saying Sammon must start every game or that he’s fantastic. Just that he doesn’t deserve to be the subject of ridicule that he is fast becoming.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I disagree yes sharp went through that patch where he wasn't scoring, but I don't think that is fair to blame on adams. I think it was more to do with the fact he hadn't scored for a while and knocked his confidence we all know how passionate sharp is for the blades, and think it was more to do with he was feeling pressured to start scoring again. Once he got his first goal he then found his confidence back and started scoring again.

I also disagree with you saying sammon brings the best out in sharp. I feel sharp finds him self trying to cover more ground when sammon is playing as he is covering more space for him leaving himself out of position at times. He is a goal scorer and should be picking the ball up around or in the box. How many times did we see him playing with sammon and picking the ball up out on the wing or no where near the box with a lot of work left to do. Where as when he is playing with done done covers a lot of ground as well and sharp and then they can both try and pick the ball up and fed it to one another in the box or just put side letting one of the 2 have a go at goal. Agreed I don't think this partnership is perfect and some times they are to spread apart and it is like playing with a lone striker as they loose the partnership element but I would much rather have 2 player upfront who are willing to cover the ground and who can both score. Where as sammon seems to struggle with both of these things.

I honestly don't think sammon is good enough and we need to get rid. And I know I am not the only person that shares this opinion and unfortunately no one can change my mind as sammon has made my mind up for me. He has had long enough to now to prove he is the man for us and I haven't seen it from him.

Fair enough biggey, that is your point of view and you are entitled to it. It'd be boring if we all had the exact same opinion. For me, Sharp was struggling to get near the goal a lot of the time when playing with Adams because he was doing all the hold up work and feeding Adams who didn’t have the tactical/positional awareness to return the favour. Done does a better job of working for the team than Adams and has some strengths that Sammon doesn’t. Like I say in my post above, I think there are circumstances that call for each (assuming we can’t bring in a more complete centre forward to partner Sharp).

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I don't think he's the latest scapegoat at all ...... he has never been a goalscorer in his entire career and was never what we wanted or needed but he's what we were told to make do with !!

We need a proper goal threat to play up front with Sharp or Done and have needed this for several years ...... its been the story of the "emperors new clothes" re-enacted by SUFC.

As usual for SUFC; we are "spoiling the ship for a hapoth of tar" in time honoured fashion. We are probably three / four players short of a side who can get into and realistically compete in this seasons play-offs, but regrettably, despite the fans delivering the goods week after week in this agricultural Division, the Club will continue to steadfastly refuse to deliver for us !!

UTB & FTP

But how many teams have two strikers in the same 11 who both score consistently? We had Deane and Agana all those years ago but more often, one provides a platform for the other to thrive. Evans and Cresswell being a prime example. Whether Sammon is good enough at that role is one debate. But to just stick another goal poacher against Sharp is not forced to work if the styles don’t compliment each other.


O Grady has never been prolific but would be excellent for this level if we could get him back in my opinion.

 

[spongebobblade]

With all due respect to the likes of WHF and 1d, whether it be Cresswell, Higdon or Sammon, none are good enough to play on a regular basis and score/create the goals to fire us to automatic promotion. All, regardless of the quality around them need/needed countless chances before putting one away. None are consistent enough to provide what we need. Sammon is best remembered for his glaring misses this season than the goals he scored. You hit the nail on the head Dane when you said he hadn't/hardly been involved in the last 4 or 5 games. The reason? He simply isn't good enough or consistent enough on a regular basis. I take your point when you mention the little things he does well in certain games. They are few and far between though and it's time our club stopped settling for bang average players, Connor being one of many.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

With all due respect to the likes of WHF and 1d, whether it be Cresswell, Higdon or Sammon, none are good enough to play on a regular basis and score/create the goals to fire us to automatic promotion. All, regardless of the quality around them need/needed countless chances before putting one away. None are consistent enough to provide what we need. Sammon is best remembered for his glaring misses this season than the goals he scored. You hit the nail on the head Dane when you said he hadn't/hardly been involved in the last 4 or 5 games. The reason? He simply isn't good enough or consistent enough on a regular basis. I take your point when you mention the little things he does well in certain games. They are few and far between though and it's time our club stopped settling for bang average players, Connor being one of many.

In terms of a better player being required in terms of recruitment, I agree. I just don't accept that he is so bad he deserves to be jeered and mocked by a large section of the fan base. I also think he brings more to the team than quite a few give him credit for and at least at times, more than the other internal options we have. I'm not saying we should keep him beyond this year or that we shouldn't look for better in the transfer market. Simply saying he's not this anti-footballer that people make him out to be and that we need to get behind him because he can contribute.

 

[BushBlade]

He seems to be getting a lot of stick on here for his work rate but i have just been up to Shirecliffe and saw him stay behind after the others had left to work on his ball control.

I took this video to prove it and if you look closely i think that may well be WHF behind him telling anyone who will listen what a great job he is doing at it

That's Higdon.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Worth noting how he changed the game at Walsall too. Baxter’s goal came from Sammon pressuring their centre half into making a poor clearance. He does that a lot even if he’s not good at actually winning the headers.


Off the top of my head, Chesterfield (H), Peterborough (A), Bradford (A), Walsall (A), Bradford (H) Sammon has had good games and been a big part of our attacking threat or has changed the game when he has come on. Those that suggest he offers nothing and are seeking to make him a figure of fun are just being ridiculous and clearly have very short memories. Cresswell used to get dog’s abuse as well until he was replaced by Porter, who got dogs abuse til he was replaced by Higdon who got dogs abuse til he was replaced by Sammon. I think some just have an extremely unrealistic view of how good 3rd tier target men are. Some called for Hanson recently but if we signed him, I guarantee he would become the target of abuse for a large section of our fanbase.

Sammon's body language has visibly changed since he started getting the ironic cheers when he wins a header or gets subbed. He looked like he was enjoying his football earlier in the season. Now he doesn't. I hope he can get back to his best.

Amen, Hallelujah, Praise the Lord, and Greasy Chip Butties all round.

Great Post from another to whom the Truth bath been revealed.

 

[spongebobblade]

In terms of a better player being required in terms of recruitment, I agree. I just don't accept that he is so bad he deserves to be jeered and mocked by a large section of the fan base. I also think he brings more to the team than quite a few give him credit for and at least at times, more than the other internal options we have. I'm not saying we should keep him beyond this year or that we shouldn't look for better in the transfer market. Simply saying he's not this anti-footballer that people make him out to be and that we need to get behind him because he can contribute.

I agree that while ever he is a blade it's counterproductive to mock him during a game. I also disagree with those who class him as lazy. For me he just isn't good enough to help us reach our ultimate goal and after 5 seasons we are accepting this type of mediocre player more and more. Personally I think that occasionally he does bring something to the team but occasionally isn't good enough for a team with promotion ambitions. Sadly that applies to far more than just Sammon. It's a reflection of both how far we have fallen and how low our expectations have become with regards the quality of players we sign

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I'd interpret them stats as him being a bit shit. I would be correct

The proposition was he moves regularly from club to club.

The stats do not support that imo.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Fair enough biggey, that is your point of view and you are entitled to it. It'd be boring if we all had the exact same opinion. For me, Sharp was struggling to get near the goal a lot of the time when playing with Adams because he was doing all the hold up work and feeding Adams who didn’t have the tactical/positional awareness to return the favour. Done does a better job of working for the team than Adams and has some strengths that Sammon doesn’t. Like I say in my post above, I think there are circumstances that call for each (assuming we can’t bring in a more complete centre forward to partner Sharp).

It was reasonable to use Done at Wigan as they really tried it on playing out from the back. He scored a couple so kept his place at Colchester where he was much less suited.

 

[BushBlade]

With all due respect to the likes of WHF and 1d, whether it be Cresswell, Higdon or Sammon, none are good enough to play on a regular basis and score/create the goals to fire us to automatic promotion. All, regardless of the quality around them need/needed countless chances before putting one away. None are consistent enough to provide what we need. Sammon is best remembered for his glaring misses this season than the goals he scored. You hit the nail on the head Dane when you said he hadn't/hardly been involved in the last 4 or 5 games. The reason? He simply isn't good enough or consistent enough on a regular basis. I take your point when you mention the little things he does well in certain games. They are few and far between though and it's time our club stopped settling for bang average players, Connor being one of many.

Cressy was more than good enough as a partner for Evans.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Throughout all this is the perhaps more serious point that a (continued) dip in confidence and form for Sammon could cost us dearly.

Support Sammon. Support the team.

UTMB

 

[wizadry]

He seems to be getting a lot of stick on here for his work rate but i have just been up to Shirecliffe and saw him stay behind after the others had left to work on his ball control.

I took this video to prove it and if you look closely i think that may well be WHF behind him telling anyone who will listen what a great job he is doing at it

To be fair, he doesn't role around trying to get a free kick, he was genuinely fouled by the ball.