Shoreham Boys- offensive?

[Woodwaaard]

Ainsley
You have a valid argument
You and TGB are seeing cancer in different ways
Neither of you a wrong
You're just different
Please encourage TGB to grieve in his own way and as for you, keep strong
Your positive mental attitude will help and I admire your mental strength
Ultimately your cancer outcome comes down to genetics and the efficacy of your treatment
It's all a pile of shit
You two should be mates, not adversaries

 

[GrunkyPeep]

Well in my case, someone calling my illness out and me feeling shit about it could lead me down a path full of self-pity. "Oh look at you, look like you've come out the camps ya skinny cunt" - yeh thanks. I feel shit and your words have made me feel worse. Let me go home to feel even more shit about myself and my condition.

Or...

Yeah I know mate but I'm trying to fight back. Thanks for your input.

So the first example would be me showing a sign of weakness to that individual by sulking my arse off. Make any sense to ya? As I said, I'm going through it myself, not my parent or relative, me.

Think you've hit the nail here tbh though. I fully appreciate your experience. That's YOUR experience though. You are going through hell and you are doing what you can to fight and I am impressed by your resilience and mental strength.

But why should your experience mean that you invalidate the experience of the rest of us? You are fighting your battles and you need to be strong. Why am I not strong for fighting for my mum's memory? Why isn't Didzy strong for fighting against racism? Why would I not be strong for standing up for myself? I've spent most of my life taking jokes about being fat and bald, why would I be weak if I made people stop?

Everyone's fighting their own battles. Please don't use your battles to belittle mine. For you, offended = weak is a smart way to look at things. That doesn't mean you need to tell me, and everyone else, that we are weak.

 

[ChrisBlade]

I think the whole thread drowns in details and blurs a fairly simple dichotomy by attempts to hide the polar views in logic:

Some people view the world as holistic and in constant change, so these shifts encompass everything and include football chants which should - over time - come in line with majority views in society.

The other camp - mostly older men - view football as a traditional holiday from life where different standards apply. Chants are meant to offend or create reactions. They create or emphasise differences, doing so in a rebellious and tongue in cheek way.

Safety at football for them is never threatened by words as safety already lies in being in the same tribe. They feel safe with people or in pubs on a match day due to supporting the same team that they would feel threatened by on any other day. Communality or shared purpose is their inclusion, not toning down words or concepts.

Discussion between the two will always be tricky. Hardly anything at football is meant the way it is sung. It is designed to offend.

If we decide that this express goal of offending is usually not excusable on account of individual pain, we will gradually change more than words.

I see both points but am not in favour of a world where the potential effect of what is said defines acceptability in all settings.

The line in the song is clearly crap so will likely die. When at the match and in a tribal mood, I might sing it and won’t mind potential offense or triggering others. We all have trauma and personalities. Over time, we probably succeed in removing the most common or insensitive triggers. But ultimately it is upon each individual to find a way around their own individual issues, not a right to have a generally non-offensive or inclusive style of language in all settings.

 

[robbiez666]

Worth noting that songs do change over time to respond to changing social patterns, so changing one line is not entirely unusual.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Worth noting that songs do change over time to respond to changing social patterns, so changing one line is not entirely unusual.

Well “we ain’t got a barrel of money” has always been a constant in the lives of Blades fans………

 

[brownblade]

I've made a few alterations I hope fan be adopted on the away terraces.

"Shoreham boys we are here, Woke, Woke.
Shoreham boys we are here, Woke, Woke.
Shoreham boys we are here, empower your women and lend our ear.
Woooooaaaoooooooooke"

This is actually amazing. Despite me being in the cringey/embarrassing camp RE the last line.

 

[Nickydblade]

The line in the song is clearly crap so will likely die. When at the match and in a tribal mood, I might sing it and won’t mind potential offense or triggering others. We all have trauma and personalities. Over time, we probably succeed in removing the most common or insensitive triggers. But ultimately it is upon each individual to find a way around their own individual issues, not a right to have a generally non-offensive or inclusive style of language in all settings.

Excellent post, and I think your broad analysis of ‘two tribes’ with different views of how a chant works is both accurate and enlightening.

However, I think the last bit (quoted above) potentially places too much emphasis on individual rights (in the context of a communal setting like a footy match).

I wil change my older hypothetical example as I don’t want to trigger anyone... if an individual or group chose to sing a song at a Wembley semi-final about the Munich air disaster (mentioned as off limits by another poster earlier) or a person’s sexuality, then is it reasonable that those disapproving of it should expect others to think about ‘potential offence’? I think most would say that it would be better for individuals and groups to support a ‘non-offensive’ approach rather than one that emphasises individual rights to chant what you like in this context. In the end though I agree the individual will decide, and there will be valid differences of opinion on what is and what is not appropriate. I have chosen examples probably more relevant to the other semi to reduce the accusation I am somehow having a go at Blades fans.

I know your argument is more nuanced than that, and you do make it clear your point is ‘in all settings’ which I actually agree with. However, in a specific setting e.g. a footy crowd, then in some ways a ‘general’ approach to what individuals should or should not say about Munich, or sexuality, seems preferable although I would never say it is ‘obvious’. It seems to me it is more about the drawing and redrawing of lines rather than a overall right or rule. Again, I accept that you have already said this happens ‘over time’. Perhaps the time for a ‘shag your women’ chant is coming to an end for more and more fans, although some of course will continue to sing it which is absolutely your and their ‘right’.