Woodburn

[Laney Blade]

I hope someone bookmarks this thread and throws it back at me, and I would be delighted to be proved wrong and humiliated on what I'm about to say....

.....I just don't think he's up to it. He seems like the type of luxury player who needs high quality around him to make him shine, and if he's not getting the games (quite rightly) I can see him returning to Liverpool in January.

I do fear he will become the next Stefan Scougall. Ridiculously early days I know, nothing personal no agenda no scapegoating etc, it's just based on what I've seen

I've never been more excited by a signing in years yet he just doesn't seem cut out for this level as of yet, and I don't think we have the time to develop him.

As I said, tin hat on, and would love to regret this thread....

UTB

He does need more time to show what he can do in training. Unfortunately the mega money clubs loan out their wet behind the ears young players for other clubs to bring them on gradually. He may come alive & suddenly click in training at Christmas. Clubs like us has to take whoever is on offer as a free loan. There aren't dozens to choose from so we have to take a punt. If he doesn't turn out to be superboy at least we tried.

 

[Laney Blade]

Washington is no where near the standard we need upfront. I actually felt sorry for him.

Was he 4th choice though ? On availability , wages & a free ? I dont know so please don't have a go at me as it's an honest question I don't know the answer to..

 

[Laney Blade]

Surely we should only be looking to acquire players capable of having an impact otherwise why else would we sign them?

They are free !!

 

[Laney Blade]

Surely we should only be looking to acquire players capable of having an impact otherwise why else would we sign them?

But how do we know if a kiddiwink will take 3 6 or 9 months to settle in & find their feet & confidence. If not a dead cert for this season he may be for next season.

 

[bromtom]

"Ideal Blades" the new "Shakey Jakey"?

 

[nopigfansintown]

Some people are really fucking dense.

Duffy's form has deteriorated in the second half of the last two seasons. No argument.

Should've known pointing that out might've been a bit strong for the Ideal Blades.

If we had a proper backup for him who doesn't significantly change or weaken us, we'd have a better chance of seeing Duffy perform at a similar high level all season.

This.

 

[Hilly]

Some people are really fucking dense.

Duffy's form has deteriorated in the second half of the last two seasons. No argument.

Should've known pointing that out might've been a bit strong for the Ideal Blades.

If we had a proper backup for him who doesn't significantly change or weaken us, we'd have a better chance of seeing Duffy perform at a similar high level all season.

Handbags!
Why do you put 'No argument' like its a fact? I contend that there is an argument against that without actually wanting to start one!
I genuinely can't recall any drop in his level in our Div 3 season. He was included in the PFA team of the year so must have been fairly consistent.
Last year the whole team dropped off at the end, you cant single Duffy out in this.

My reason for carrying this on is that my density doesn't understand your point of view.
You seem to be saying that Duffy needs to start / play more and that when he does Utd tick.
On the other hand we should have a ready replacement to allow him to not play as much.
Is that the gist of it?

 

[DronnieBlade]

Adequate Mark Duffy replacements do not fall off trees.

Woodburn was / is a gamble that hasn’t (and won’t) work.

UTB

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

Some people are really fucking dense.

Duffy's form has deteriorated in the second half of the last two seasons. No argument.

Should've known pointing that out might've been a bit strong for the Ideal Blades.

If we had a proper backup for him who doesn't significantly change or weaken us, we'd have a better chance of seeing Duffy perform at a similar high level all season.

So you want a player who is equally as good as Duffy, who will accept playing the odd game, while Duffy gets a massage, will accept getting dropped again no matter how they play. This player, despite playing only random games, should fit seamlessly into the team and perform to the same level as Duffy?? Good luck with that one.

 

[Yewsman]

We’ve only played 10 games. There are 36 games to play plus FA Cup ties. Players including Duffy will get injured, suspended and will need resting. Certainly the older players will not be able to play every game with the high intensity that we play with. That’s why we need and have a large squad. We have a number of unknown quantities in the squad; Washington, Cranie, Johnson, Bryan and Woodburn. It is likely that they will all need to play in the first team at some point. Hopefully one or more of them will take the opportunity and shine. We know what Wilder can do with players discarded by other clubs. Just look at Duffy, Fleck, Freeman and McGoldrick. However some may prove to be not up to the job. Woodburn clearly has potential. We have to hope that when he gets his chance, as he surely will, he takes it.

 

[Luke1993]

Luke freeman in January if woodburn does go back to Liverpool. If not then next summer.

 

[Ricky]

If you couldn't see that Duffy was less effective in the second half of both seasons then there's probably no point arguing. Last season he stopped being selected half the time. He set very high standards in the first half of both seasons then for whatever reason, didn't replicate it in the second half.

What I've said is not difficult to understand. We need someone with similar abilities who can slot into our team, play that role well, take the weight off Duffy's shoulders and make sure he's somewhere near his best condition throughout the season, and when we need him most (imagine going into the play offs with Duffy in top form?). Yes it's very hard to find someone as good, but I've not said that's the requirement have I - although you should always try to improve.

The ideal scenario is signing someone (a bit like that Bournemouth player) who could both play with Duffy (off a striker) or replace him. Such a player could be expensive, which is why it would be necessary to ensure there's more than one way to fit him in the team.

 

[FYT]

I picked up on something that Klopp said just before we signed him commenting on the preseason and the youth team’s tour. He said “Ben’s 100% back!” which made me wonder if he’d been off his game for a while.

Maybe all the hype got to him, if he can play well for his country and in the Premier League he’s got to have something about him. He’s only a kid, 3 years younger than Brooks so maybe it’s a lack of confidence thing that scoring a goal could help cure. I was hoping we’d be coasting against PNE and he’d get another chance, it wasn’t to be, but I think he needs to play with the pressure off if he’s going to find his feet with us.

Think he was referring to his return from a bad injury Gray. Might be wrong.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Amazing how quickly players are written off. The lad hasn’t even had two consecutive starts yet I don’t think. It doesn’t seem like we have had the opportunity or need to play in an accommodating shape yet.

He’s a good option to have. Don’t write him off just yet. If he’s not getting in the side it’s a sign we’re doing well.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

What's that then?

Mascot?

 

[Sean Thornton]

If you couldn't see that Duffy was less effective in the second half of both seasons then there's probably no point arguing. Last season he stopped being selected half the time. He set very high standards in the first half of both seasons then for whatever reason, didn't replicate it in the second half.

What I've said is not difficult to understand. We need someone with similar abilities who can slot into our team, play that role well, take the weight off Duffy's shoulders and make sure he's somewhere near his best condition throughout the season, and when we need him most (imagine going into the play offs with Duffy in top form?). Yes it's very hard to find someone as good, but I've not said that's the requirement have I - although you should always try to improve.

The ideal scenario is signing someone (a bit like that Bournemouth player) who could both play with Duffy (off a striker) or replace him. Such a player could be expensive, which is why it would be necessary to ensure there's more than one way to fit him in the team.

This theory lark is easy.

Long before your time comics used to give away "league ladders" where you could place teams in their divisional and league order after Saturdays results. I always had United at the top of the old first division because that's where I thought we should, and where I wanted us to be.
It's much the same today but with modern technology, still no responsibility for fuck ups though. If they were really fourteenth in the old second division, no one would say I was a twat because all kids knew it was pure fantasy. Mind you, I was only six but it wasn't that long before I realised that no matter what I wanted, real life always came into play.

Yorkshire always won at pencil cricket as well.

True story.

So, to recap, what we need is a utility forward who we need to play nearly all the who may be expensive? And then move him around when Duffy has had a bit of a rest? Presumably dropping someone else who needs a rest? Got it.

Over to you Tufty.

 

[WoodMillBlade]

I get what FM is saying. Shame yet again people get on their high horse.


When he signed it was a wow signing.

Highly rated youngster from Liverpool who has already got goals at international level.

You’d Kind of expect him to have been given a good runout and being mentioned a lot.

You never know he could come good and FM pointed out he hopes he is wrong in his early assessment but usually if they are not lighting up the crowd now and not given much game time it’s fairy obvious to see he maybe not the player we thought he was.
Happens all the time though with youngsters.

 

[Ricky]

This theory lark is easy.

Long before your time comics used to give away "league ladders" where you could place teams in their divisional and league order after Saturdays results. I always had United at the top of the old first division because that's where I thought we should, and where I wanted us to be.
It's much the same today but with modern technology, still no responsibility for fuck ups though. If they were really fourteenth in the old second division, no one would say I was a twat because all kids knew it was pure fantasy. Mind you, I was only six but it wasn't that long before I realised that no matter what I wanted, real life always came into play.

Yorkshire always won at pencil cricket as well.

True story.

So, to recap, what we need is a utility forward who we need to play nearly all the who may be expensive? And then move him around when Duffy has had a bit of a rest? Presumably dropping someone else who needs a rest? Got it.

Over to you Tufty.

You're obviously keen to try and disagree with me and make my ideal scenario sound implausible, but it isn't. There are enough good, versatile attacking players out there. I could name some but the Ideal Blades would fall over themselves to discredit them and tell me Woodburn's much better.

If Woodburn was good enough, I suspect Wilder would be using him and Duffy as I described.

 

[Sean Thornton]

You're obviously keen to try and disagree with me and make my ideal scenario sound implausible, but it isn't. There are enough good, versatile attacking players out there. I could name some but the Ideal Blades would fall over themselves to discredit them and tell me Woodburn's much better.

If Woodburn was good enough, I suspect Wilder would be using him and Duffy as I described.

So your "ideal" scenario is to sign someone not necessarily as good as Duffy, to do Duffys job while we rest him? That's not really ideal at all is it?

You should email Wilder with these names, guaranteed to do better.

 

[guancheblade]

Play him as a striker, the one area we lack genuine pace in. Bring him off the bench late in games to stretch defenders when we're chasing a result.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

David Brooks has more chance of playing for Liverpool first team than Woodburn. (See Brooks thread)

 

[Sheffsteel]

David Brooks has more chance of playing for Liverpool first team than Woodburn. (See Brooks thread)

Appreciate Woodburn has been really underwhelming in his 1 start and about 4 sub aprearances but it’s far too early to judge.
He’s much more highly rated in the game amongst experts than what Brooks was at the same age.

So how come you know more than 10,000’s of Liverpool fans and Jurgen Klopp?
Klopp would be laughing at your statement (see Brooks thread)

 

[snootyfenooty]

Appreciate Woodburn has been really underwhelming in his 1 start and about 4 sub aprearances but it’s far too early to judge.
He’s much more highly rated in the game amongst experts than what Brooks was at the same age.

So how come you know more than 10,000’s of Liverpool fans and Jurgen Klopp?
Klopp would be laughing at your statement (see Brooks thread)

So Liverpool fans are the font of all knowledge and Sheffielders' opinions are to be disregarded? That's cap doffing on a scale I've never encountered before. Based on what I've seen of Woodburn in the flesh he's been pretty meh. I think Wilder will agree with me on that as he'll be gone by the new year.

 

[Sheffsteel]

So Liverpool fans are the font of all knowledge and Sheffielders' opinions are to be disregarded? That's cap doffing on a scale I've never encountered before. Based on what I've seen of Woodburn in the flesh he's been pretty meh. I think Wilder will agree with me on that as he'll be gone by the new year.

One Liverpool recently told me that maybe the Championship is too physical and long ball to show case his skills ha ha.
Agree with you that the best people to make judgment are Wilder and Klopp.
Wilder will see him everyday in training and will be able to directly judge his potential and compare to David Brooks.
He will also get to know how personality and how he interacts with his team mates.
My observation is that our other loaner Henderson is a big character and full of personal confidence and competitiveness.
Brooks’s body language was also confident and very competive.
However the concern is that Woodburn body language seems like he’s overawed or can’t be bothered.
If I didn’t know better it’s as though he has personal problems and has slight depression, his head doesn’t seem right.

It was a season long loan, wonder if there’s any clauses to give him back and what the financial penalties might be?
No doubt Wilder would never answer that question because he wouldn’t want BW to think he might be sending him back.
Still really believe he will improve and play a significant part.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Appreciate Woodburn has been really underwhelming in his 1 start and about 4 sub aprearances but it’s far too early to judge.
He’s much more highly rated in the game amongst experts than what Brooks was at the same age.

So how come you know more than 10,000’s of Liverpool fans and Jurgen Klopp?
Klopp would be laughing at your statement (see Brooks thread)

I did think anyone was going take my statement seriously? Just trying to stress(in a humorous way) how underwhelming Woodburns start at the club has been. But now you mention it.......Every top club in the Prem will be taking notice of Brooks progress at Bournemouth..........including Liverpool.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I did think anyone was going take my statement seriously? Just trying to stress(in a humorous way) how underwhelming Woodburns start at the club has been. But now you mention it.......Every top club in the Prem will be taking notice of Brooks progress at Bournemouth..........including Liverpool.

Brooks wouldn't get anywhere near the liverpool team. Not a chance they're monitoring his progress.

 

[Ricky]

So your "ideal" scenario is to sign someone not necessarily as good as Duffy, to do Duffys job while we rest him? That's not really ideal at all is it?

You should email Wilder with these names, guaranteed to do better.

What's your ideal scenario? Signing De Bruyne for 500k?

 

[Sheffsteel]

What's your ideal scenario? Signing De Bruyne for 500k?

I always think Duffy is more of a poor mans David Silva, he could do a job for us.

 

[Sean Thornton]

What's your ideal scenario? Signing De Bruyne for 500k?

Full victim mode engaged.

 

[Ricky]

Full victim mode engaged.

No opinions offered. Petty argument pursued.

Full Thornton mode engaged.