The 92 point myth

[Willglynning]

It's fact not myth. The likelihood is with another window and with worse sides coming down we'd have bettered that.

What next for the unhinged Wilder haters: "the two promotions and 9th place Prem season fantasy".

It seems to me that the Wilder hater cult are getting their excuses in early if it doesn't go well next season by undermining Wilder's achievements last season.

I don’t hate Wilder at all, and it’s a bit reductive to generalise all criticism of his second tenure here as ‘Wilder hate’.

We did extremely well to accrue the amount of points we did last season; but did so in a way that was and is unsustainable.

It’s almost naive to presume we’d have progressed this season, when both results and performances had started trending downwards since January.

 

[100% part time blade]

That's the whole agenda. Getting the excuses in early. They have little faith in their convictions.

Personally I expected us to win the league this season under Wilder and for the new man to do the same.

Wilder has left immense foundations to build on with Campbell, O'Hare, Burrows, Seriki, Peck, Cooper, and Davies and Arblaster now avaliable etc. They are already there, developed and ready to go. The new guy has an infinitely better hand than Wilder had when we were mid takeover with little money in August. The approach of these posters is a bit cowardly tbh. Beating our position/points total last season shouldn't be too difficult given the above. They should be incredibly confident we'll do it rather than making these lame excuses.

92 points is an impressive achievement. However, I think a more relevant consideration than our ‘luck’ over the season is our financial position. I think the parachute payments represent a bit more than ‘little money available in August’. There has never been a time in the previous 30 odd second tier seasons when we have had so much more money available for the playing budget than 21 of the other teams, and then had a further cash injection with new owners mid-season.
Wilder did a very good job - lots of managers fail with a highly paid squad - and the 92 points was impressive, but I think the points totals of the top 3 says more about the financial implications of time in (or out) of the premier league than it does about the skills of Parker, Farke and Wilder.
Next season we will be a little further down the financial pecking order, which may have left the board thinking a similar points tally with the same manager was a less likely outcome.

 

[nopigfansintown]

I don’t hate Wilder at all, and it’s a bit reductive to generalise all criticism of his second tenure here as ‘Wilder hate’.

We did extremely well to accrue the amount of points we did last season; but did so in a way that was and is unsustainable.

It’s almost naive to presume we’d have progressed this season, when both results and performances had started trending downwards since January.

It's the opposite. Summer is when clubs build sustainable success and last summer's work was fantastic: Cooper, Burrows, Campbell, O'Hare, Souttar and the integration of Seriki and Peck. Another summer like that with Arblaster back and firing and we'd be odds on. It's highly naive to suggest otherwise. We should be heavy favourites going into this season regardless of manager. You replace Souttar and get Arblaster back and you have an automatic team.by your own methodology. I'm expecting more than that and would regardless of who is the manager.

There's no Leeds or Burnley this year to boot.

 

[Aston max]

This is from my sensible piggy neighbour,
The trouble was second half of the season teams had worked out wilders immovable tactics and that's why it all went tit's up at the end !
And before you all jump on him he's a decent chap and one of the "both teams should be in the premier" believers
Unlike the idiot next-door who still thinks Chansiri will sell them to a billionaire

 

[dexter101]

I love what Wilder has done, I love the bladeybladeness, I love the singing in the pub. I would happily have sat and supported another season on the Wilder bus ride. If he decides to start managing Sheffield FC, I might well pop down and watch.

I am not sure we would have got 92 points again this season. It always felt like we were riding our luck a bit.

The board have decided they want to try and different direction with the ultimate aim of being an established PL side. I don't think Wilder was capable of that. No disrespect to the bloke or what he has done with us previously, but I think we would always have been the club overachieving, maybe winning some more games that last time round but it would always have been the plucky underdog whilst ultimately can't compete with the big boys.

Is Selles the best manager for the role? people with more knowledge than me have decided yes, if they support him with infrastructure, signings and time, I will look forward to the new ride.

Just bring on the start of the season, watch this happy clapper, clap away.

 

[djbaldken]

I'm not a Wilder hater by any means

Really??????

The 92 points is not a myth. It's a fact!
You don't get 92 points by being mediocre or lucky.
Those points were earned initially by having a water tight defence. Look how many games we went without conceding! That's not down to luck. We lost Souttar and then cracks appeared.
Of course there were poor performances, but not ALL season. There were times when we weren't good but STILL won. Teams that win when not playing well are usually teams that succeed.

I hope Selles comes in and does well for us. I have doubts that that will happen though. But you never know.

I'm not so biased and blinkered

Again, Really??????
Your comments suggest otherwise.

 

[Scarebus]

Mate they don't even class us as finishing 3rd last season. We finished NOWHERE.

I think they've lost their minds.

If you finished between 3rd and 21st in the championship and lose a play off final, you did finish nowhere. You just ended the season with nothing else and reset to go again.

This season points tally & position has gone. It has no bearing on next season.

 

[Gavlar]

All I've read pretty much everywhere since it was announced that Wilder has gone/was going is that the owners are mad to sack him because he got us to 92 points last season. The new manager allegedly won't get us to 92 points again as only Wilder could achieve this.

I'm going to call b/s on this myth.

We were inconsistent all season and (play offs aside), we only put in a decent performance over 90 minutes in a handful of matches. In the remainder we were either good half/bad half or poor altogther. We ground out results and relied heavily on luck. It wasn't good management or tactical nuance that won a lot of these games, it was luck. That luck ran out towards the end of the season.

In the last ten games of the season we won four, drew two and lost four. We only won two of our last seven league matches.

Wilder showed no sign of changing his methods.

To say we won't get 92 points again is arguably accurate as the odds are that Wilder himself wouldn't get 92 points again. There is no way that we could play another entire season again in this manner and expect to fluke our way to results through luck again. It's a miracle that we got that amount playing the way we did last season.

"But Wilder would change the way we play next season."

Really? Then why didn't he last season?

"He didn't have the players he needed to suit his tactics."

Then change the tactics to suit what you have and he had January to address this where he was backed by the owners, but he didn't.

I'm sick to death of reading about the 92 points without people acknowledging the poor form at the end of the season and the poor performances all season.

I can handle not getting to 92 points again next season if it means no more disjointed, inconsistent performances and no more square pegs in round holes. We have a far better chance of going up and staying up by playing well than we do by grinding out undeserved results playing crap football with central midfielders and strikers on the wings.

Other fans will only see the final league table and think we're mad. They didn't watch the crap football that we had to watch to get there. Just like some of our fans are judging Selles on results only. They don't tell the whole story and don't entirely define a manager.

Wilder wasn't "sacked" because he didn't get us promoted. He was "sacked" because of everything else.

If you're going to keep quoting 92 points then at least be honest and acknowledge how we got to 92 points and the poor performances and negative tactics throughout the season getting there that continued all the way to the last game of the season.

Funny how different folks see it bud.

For me over 46 games in a season, you finish where you finish due to hard work and get what you deserve.
As others have said, it's hard to believe luck was the reason we got 92 points. I would argue we were consistent. We were almost never out of the top 4 all season. The performances may have been more of the issue, but nowadays watching football, there are hardly any teams that I see that play entertaining football.

Burnley certainly didn't and got 100 points. Leeds did and got the same no of points. The harsh reality is, both Leeds and Burnley may well get relegated next season.
Ipswich tried to play entertaining football in the prem and got murdered every week.

I agree that its unlikely that Wilder would keep us in the prem, but really can't believe that Selles will either. Selles doesnt have a track record of promotions either.

Aside from playing more attacking football, I really can't see at this stage what the owners see in him. I really hope I am wrong, but thesedays everyone seems to be playing a variation of the same tippy tappy football that Barcelona and Man City play under Pep. Not everyone can play out from the back well. I really enjoyed the way
we dismantled Bristol City in the playoff semi by going over their press and although it wasn't pretty, it was bloody effective.

I don't really care how we play as long as we are successful. I wait to be proved wrong that Selles will be more successful than Wilder.

UTB

 

[Tom Bott]

but you'll struggle to convince me that he is the man who could then keep us up,

Remind me of how many managers from the last 4 or 5 seasons have achieved this.

Welcome back the managerial merry go round.

 

[Geordie Blade]

You’re not wrong, but a bit of a difference when there was approx 8,000 more fans in the stadium with a place at Wembley at stake. I still think we would have won the overall tie with the right mentality however even that game in the league it took an 90+8 winner.

The play off final at Wembley took a 90+7 winner.

It works both ways!

 

[AWetFlannel]

If we were top, and then we fell to 3rd, that literally means that your tactic wasn't sustainable. If it was sustainable, we'd have sustained our position and been promoted.

Just looking at the first half points/goals/conceded total Vs 2nd half of season you can see that it's not sustainable right?

Surely you can understand that every metric of success getting noticeably worse in the 2nd half of the season is a sign that things got worse?

It doesn't literally mean that, no. League position is impacted by lots of factors, like what other teams do, for example.

There is a difference in the first and second halves of the season, which again are due to many different factors, none of which are necessarily the tactics. We lost Souttar, we had a particularly bad week with a drop in form and three losses that will greatly skew the statistics. You can have a bad run of form playing with any tactics.

We had the third biggest budget and finished third with a very high points total. That some fans are desperate to let everyone know it was a massive failure, and they understood exactly why months ago, and that if the manager just listened to them and tried their tactics we'd have been miles clear at the top, is just sad imo.

 

[Gavlar]

This is from my sensible piggy neighbour,
The trouble was second half of the season teams had worked out wilders immovable tactics and that's why it all went tit's up at the end !
And before you all jump on him he's a decent chap and one of the "both teams should be in the premier" believers
Unlike the idiot next-door who still thinks Chansiri will sell them to a billionaire

It all went tits up in the end due to us missing sitters in the final rather than teams working out our tactics. Our best player then got injured and our centre half was injured and off the pitch when they scored the winner. We also have a VAR decision that wasn't used in the whole of the rest of the season. That isn't to do with tactics at all.

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

If you finished between 3rd and 21st in the championship and lose a play off final, you did finish nowhere. You just ended the season with nothing else and reset to go again.

This season points tally & position has gone. It has no bearing on next season.

Bizarre way to look at it for me. 9th in Prem was also nowhere by this logic.

Finishing 21st is just as good as finishing 3rd

 

[AWetFlannel]

We overperformed our expected points total by 18 points.

Most games last season were won and lost by very fine margins. You play that season again, with the same major variables and we could easily have finished 20 points worse off.

I love a stat as much as anyone, but expected points is heavily effected by game state. With us scoring first early in many games playing the way we did the stats are always going to look like that.

 

[nopigfansintown]

It all went tits up in the end due to us missing sitters in the final rather than teams working out our tactics. Our best player then got injured and our centre half was injured and off the pitch when they scored the winner. We also have a VAR decision that wasn't used in the whole of the rest of the season. That isn't to do with tactics at all.

You can lose the tactical battle and still win a football match. This match is a good example. Another day they're buried before they have a proper shot in anger. Two examples off the top of my head are Leeds winning 1-0 at the Lane (Henderson fck up) and us winning at their ground when Basham arrived. Sunderland were set up very poorly at Wembley.

 

[nopigfansintown]

I love a stat as much as anyone, but expected points is heavily effected by game state. With us scoring first early in many games playing the way we did the stats are always going to look like that.

United cruised to victory in most games we took the lead in. Teams barely laid a glove on us most of the time. Like Mourinho's Chelsea in his first spell. 1-0 and the games finished.

 

[WayneAllison]

The best option would have been Wilder to stay, and he agree to be more attacking and integrate into a DOF framework where he had an input on players, but ultimately, the club decided

However, Wilder is too stubborn for that and refuses to be dictated to by his paymasters

Wilder is a good manager, but is yesterdays man, just like Mourinho was the best manager 15 years ago, look at him now

Football changes, and if we as a club//fanbase don't understand that,t then we will never get a shot at becoming a proper prem club

 

[jack's the lad]

Don't forget the half a million pound fines and how we are one of the most hated teams in the country sure that had something to do with the decision !!

 

[Rodley]

We overperformed our expected points total by 18 points.

Most games last season were won and lost by very fine margins. You play that season again, with the same major variables and we could easily have finished 20 points worse off.

So what you’re doing is assessing expected points against actual points?

 

[Rodley]

If you finished between 3rd and 21st in the championship and lose a play off final, you did finish nowhere. You just ended the season with nothing else and reset to go again.

This season points tally & position has gone. It has no bearing on next season.

But surely it’s indicative that any new manager has an absolutely fantastic base to build upon and golden opportunity to get automatic promotion?

 

[alcoblade]

But surely it’s indicative that any new manager has an absolutely fantastic base to build upon and golden opportunity to get automatic promotion?

Apparently not!

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

But surely it’s indicative that any new manager has an absolutely fantastic base to build upon and golden opportunity to get automatic promotion?

Nah. Means absolutely nothing mate. May as well have stayed up on goal difference. Makes no difference at all to next season. Can't judge managers on how well they do because it could just all be luck.

 

[Rodley]

Apparently not!

Some mental gymnastics going on. Hope the Owners are a little more ambitious. We’re a huge opportunity for a manager like Selles, and he will be under big pressure to deliver automatic promotion just like Wilder was.

 

[I should coco]

All I've read pretty much everywhere since it was announced that Wilder has gone/was going is that the owners are mad to sack him because he got us to 92 points last season. The new manager allegedly won't get us to 92 points again as only Wilder could achieve this.

I'm going to call b/s on this myth.

We were inconsistent all season and (play offs aside), we only put in a decent performance over 90 minutes in a handful of matches. In the remainder we were either good half/bad half or poor altogther. We ground out results and relied heavily on luck. It wasn't good management or tactical nuance that won a lot of these games, it was luck. That luck ran out towards the end of the season.

In the last ten games of the season we won four, drew two and lost four. We only won two of our last seven league matches.

Wilder showed no sign of changing his methods.

To say we won't get 92 points again is arguably accurate as the odds are that Wilder himself wouldn't get 92 points again. There is no way that we could play another entire season again in this manner and expect to fluke our way to results through luck again. It's a miracle that we got that amount playing the way we did last season.

"But Wilder would change the way we play next season."

Really? Then why didn't he last season?

"He didn't have the players he needed to suit his tactics."

Then change the tactics to suit what you have and he had January to address this where he was backed by the owners, but he didn't.

I'm sick to death of reading about the 92 points without people acknowledging the poor form at the end of the season and the poor performances all season.

I can handle not getting to 92 points again next season if it means no more disjointed, inconsistent performances and no more square pegs in round holes. We have a far better chance of going up and staying up by playing well than we do by grinding out undeserved results playing crap football with central midfielders and strikers on the wings.

Other fans will only see the final league table and think we're mad. They didn't watch the crap football that we had to watch to get there. Just like some of our fans are judging Selles on results only. They don't tell the whole story and don't entirely define a manager.

Wilder wasn't "sacked" because he didn't get us promoted. He was "sacked" because of everything else.

If you're going to keep quoting 92 points then at least be honest and acknowledge how we got to 92 points and the poor performances and negative tactics throughout the season getting there that continued all the way to the last game of the season.

If it's a 'myth' I'm happy to offer you a £20 charity bet that our new wonder kid, won't trouble 90 points.

BTW, it's Weston Park Hospital please.

 

[Bell4]

It's a completely unnecessary post full of complete nonsense. We were not inconsistent and we did change the way we played multiple times. Saying the performances were poor and we got lucky is just hilarious, sounds like a pig.

You can have all the subjective stuff about not liking the style and not liking Wilder, but trying to debunk the "myth" that we had a good season is just pathetic, particularly now he's gone.

92 points was not a myth -

He built a decent squad from a disaster and had to live hand to mouth for the majority of the season . I stated that my only concern in the final run in was that he had too many options - he nearly achieved greatness # 2

Thanks CW - top lad

 

[Donnyblade]

All I've read pretty much everywhere since it was announced that Wilder has gone/was going is that the owners are mad to sack him because he got us to 92 points last season. The new manager allegedly won't get us to 92 points again as only Wilder could achieve this.

I'm going to call b/s on this myth.

We were inconsistent all season and (play offs aside), we only put in a decent performance over 90 minutes in a handful of matches. In the remainder we were either good half/bad half or poor altogther. We ground out results and relied heavily on luck. It wasn't good management or tactical nuance that won a lot of these games, it was luck. That luck ran out towards the end of the season.

In the last ten games of the season we won four, drew two and lost four. We only won two of our last seven league matches.

Wilder showed no sign of changing his methods.

To say we won't get 92 points again is arguably accurate as the odds are that Wilder himself wouldn't get 92 points again. There is no way that we could play another entire season again in this manner and expect to fluke our way to results through luck again. It's a miracle that we got that amount playing the way we did last season.

"But Wilder would change the way we play next season."

Really? Then why didn't he last season?

"He didn't have the players he needed to suit his tactics."

Then change the tactics to suit what you have and he had January to address this where he was backed by the owners, but he didn't.

I'm sick to death of reading about the 92 points without people acknowledging the poor form at the end of the season and the poor performances all season.

I can handle not getting to 92 points again next season if it means no more disjointed, inconsistent performances and no more square pegs in round holes. We have a far better chance of going up and staying up by playing well than we do by grinding out undeserved results playing crap football with central midfielders and strikers on the wings.

Other fans will only see the final league table and think we're mad. They didn't watch the crap football that we had to watch to get there. Just like some of our fans are judging Selles on results only. They don't tell the whole story and don't entirely define a manager.

Wilder wasn't "sacked" because he didn't get us promoted. He was "sacked" because of everything else.

If you're going to keep quoting 92 points then at least be honest and acknowledge how we got to 92 points and the poor performances and negative tactics throughout the season getting there that continued all the way to the last game of the season.

I agree with every single word, the majority of last season was awfull, but when you are winning fans don't notice. I couldn't sit through another season of that, anyone who says we were good to watch is kidding themselves.

 

[Scarebus]

Nah. Means absolutely nothing mate. May as well have stayed up on goal difference. Makes no difference at all to next season. Can't judge managers on how well they do because it could just all be luck.

How many teams have a great season and drop out the next. Finishing 9th in the prem was a fantastic achievement, and if we finished 9th the following season it would have been another great achievement, but we finished rock bottom.

Luton finished 3rd in their last championship campaign, 18th in the prem, 23rd and relegated this. Means nothing in the big picture is what I'm saying.

Each season should be enjoyed, congratulated but taken in isolation. That's just how it works. It's a dynamic sport with dynamic forces, internal and external.

 

[Houston_Blade]

The gamble: making sense of the Chris Wilder sacking

Ben Meakin weighs up the risks, rewards, and reasoning behind a bold decision by new ownership—and why he's ready to roll the dice on a new era at Bramall Lane.

open.substack.com

A bit of balance on the subject, the Wilderites won’t like it, Blades fans will be able to read it with an open mind.

 

[Rodley]

Ruben says it all. He’s got to get us up.

 

[sitwell]

He was sacked because we regressed quite heavily from the moment the new owners came in despite spending more money than anyone else in January. I don't think it's any deeper than that despite all the talk.

He was sacked because he wasnt appointed.