92 points and AI

[Tom Bott]

This was down to tactical nouse by Bris. He knew they were in the playoffs for a couple of months and their performances dipped, did he rest the team as results didn’t matter? He saved it for the semis and final of the play offs. He had the tactical ability I don’t think Wilder has

Sacked by Lorient the season before for getting them relegated.
Win ratio over 76 games 30%.

Régis Le Bris - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tactical genius?

 

[de g.]

These two things are dominating nearly every thread discussion.

Your whole post is sanctimonious bellendry, rife with with straw men arguments.

Can we dump/debunk them and the misunderstanding of them on here and get back to normal debate?

92 points
First off we did not finish with 92 points, yes we won 28 games and drew 8. But we broke the same rules are charged with and were deducted -2 points so. If anyone argues we finished on 92 it’s agreeing with that they shouldn’t get a points deduction.

Has anyone said we finished with 92 points, or that we shouldn't have been deducted two points? But we picked up 92 points across the course of the season. That much is a fact.

Secondly 90 points won us nothing. Which would we rather have:
1. (92) 90 points and lose at Wembley?
2. Lose 3 out of 5 run in games, finish on 76 points and get promoted to the PL?

Indeed 92 points won us nothing - again, has anyone argued otherwise? But after 40 games we were on 85 points versus 75 for Sunderland, so resting players to be ready for the playoffs would have been nonsensical and attract as much criticism as apparently being tired for the final did.

I won’t bother doing a pole or running it by AI because I know the answer.

Painful as it is this is how the table finished and we won sweat fa and Sunderland were promoted.

Another straw man - no-one is arguing otherwise.

This was down to tactical nouse by Bris. He knew they were in the playoffs for a couple of months and their performances dipped, did he rest the team as results didn’t matter? He saved it for the semis and final of the play offs. He had the tactical ability I don’t think Wilder has. It was classic turtle and hare race with Wilder overusing the whip at the end (even though it no longer mattered) but Wilders stated pride and pashun to get to 90 points ran out and tactical nouse won. Let’s face it Bris did it on Lampard in the semis as well.

Hindsight. With even three games to go we were a couple of poor results for Leeds or Burnley away from the automatic promotion places. We weren't going to let up because we'd secured a play-off spot. Your criticism of Wilder for trying at that point is bollocks.

So, please can we stop arguing about 92(90) points? Either are totally irrelevant. That wasn’t the deciding factor in the end it was the managers tactical ability.

If it was the manager's tactical ability which failed to get us promoted, it is also the manager's tactical ability that accumulated a higher points total than any other team has ever achieved not getting promoted from the Championship.

To put it into some kind of historical context, and putting aside the 2pt deduction which had nothing to do with Wilder:

1) We finished third, behind two historically good teams in a championship context. In the last 20 years there have been 6 teams finish on 100 points or more. Only Reading in that freak 05/06 season bettered Leeds' +65 goal difference, while only Leeds, Reading, Fulham (21/22) and Newcastle (09/10) were better than Burnley's +53.
2) To achieve 92 points ranks it as the 16th best season in the last 20 years in the Championship. In 16 of those 20 seasons it would have got you promoted, in 6 as Champions.

Yes, Wilder can probably get a good points tally again next season with turgid hit, run and hide football, but can he get us promotion?

View attachment 213433

Chris Wilder's 'turgid hit, run and hide' football saw us break the record for league wins in a season in the top two divisions, and equal our all-time records for most away wins (13) and most consecutive away wins (6).

AI
I honestly think reading some of the contributions that some think the new board come in on Monday morning and say to Alexa give me a list of strikers for £1m that will score 30 goals next season, get a list and give it to the manager to pick from, really?

Brentford, and Brighton have used data analytics for years and slowly built an infrastructure for recruitment that it’s hard to challenge as the gold standard. Brentford, little old Brentford, average crowds around 2,000 when we were storming the PL with Wilder, now they average 17,000 and are a stable PL club. Again, where would we rather be now? No pole required.

Once again, has anyone said they wouldn't want to be where Brentford are? Aside from the unnecessary hyperbole (their average attendance in 19/20 was 11,699), I think we can all agree we'd like to be where they are. Brentford has taken a very different approach though, including getting rid of their Academy in 2016 (only restarted in 2022, so not yet in a position to start churning players out) whereas we have focused on youth player development with the best non-Cat 1 academy in the league.

The competitive edge of AI/data analytics are so important Tottenham have just raided Brentford in a desperate attempt to get into the ‘modern game’ on the pitch in their shiny new stadium yet we seem to be arguing the opposite against AI (we’ve always used data even it was on pen and paper, a spread sheet etc). AI is just used to assimilate much more data (BIG data) in a nano second. Its success is only as good as the data it has access to ‘learn’ from, that’s where it gives a competitive advantage.

In other news, I understand that your birthing-person's birthing person desires instruction in the fellation of avian ova. Perhaps you could impart that knowledge?

More pertinently again, where has anyone argued against this? I think most are somewhere between bemused and excited over the prospect of seeing Caceres, Nwachukwu and Ukaki.

So, while everyone is turning to AI to analyse data should we stand like Luddite's with pick axe handles and pitch forks in hand denouncing it in favour of gut feel, grit and pashun to improve and get us over the line when a bit of tactical nouse is needed not just blood and guts? Nah, again don’t think I need to add a pole in.

So, get the 92 points and AI myths out on here in favour or debunk that’s your choice.

Maybe stop setting up straw men in order to make yourself fell good and engage with the facts.

Objectively, it was a good season.
Subjectively, it was a better season than many anticipated, but ultimately disappointing to finish where and how we did.
Objectively, the success is due to the players, management and coaching team (i.e. they were the only ones who had the ability to affect any games).
Subjectively, we as fans have different views on how it might have been better, and what steps we think the owners should take to improve for next season.

 

[Blade56]

their average attendance in 19/20 was 11,699

Good point. Last fact checking by me, the summary I looked at was 2,000 average. Dig deeper it was during Covid …….

 

[Booker4]

Leeds have the money, the fans and the infrastructure, they'll be nowhere near the drop next season.

I'll remind you of that come the end of the season. But they have a much bigger chance than us with any recruitment model due to the factors you've mentioned. It will only be huge clubs i.e those who can get 50,000 plus in the top flight who can stay up there from now on coming up from the championship but there's none left now Leeds and Sunderland are up. Or clubs with mega bucks like Birmingham.

I don't think some people realise just how big the gap is between the two leagues and how much quality the likes of the worst teams have up there . It's grown especially larger the gap in the last three seasons. Just look at where Spurs and Man U finished as an example.

 

[Champagneblade]

View attachment 213439View attachment 213440

I don’t personally see anyone as an apologist who doesn’t want change for change’s sake.

We’re not talking Danny Rohl levels of delusion by scraping 12th on the final day with a particularly low total and being declared one of the best in Europe.

We’re talking about a bloke who got us our highest points total at this level.

The suggestion is that could well be enough to at least retain his job.

Switching him out for someone with less of a track record of success isn’t something we should do lightly.

I don’t see why we can’t focus on the current season whilst also incorporating AI into your model. Football is a results business. It’s also an entertainment business it’s primarily results. If we wanted to see pretty football with no end of season interest we’d all watch Swansea. Promotion has to be the aim, especially in Year 2 of the parachute money.

It has to be a very compelling candidate to replace Wilder. Similar to when Warnock went and then we spend years in the wilderness.

 

[Aston max]

I don’t personally see anyone as an apologist who doesn’t want change for change’s sake.

We’re not talking Danny Rohl levels of delusion by scraping 12th on the final day with a particularly low total and being declared one of the best in Europe.

We’re talking about a bloke who got us our highest points total at this level.

The suggestion is that could well be enough to at least retain his job.

Switching him out for someone with less of a track record of success isn’t something we should do lightly.

I don’t see why we can’t focus on the current season whilst also incorporating AI into your model. Football is a results business. It’s also an entertainment business it’s primarily results. If we wanted to see pretty football with no end of season interest we’d all watch Swansea. Promotion has to be the aim, especially in Year 2 of the parachute money.

It has to be a very compelling candidate to replace Wilder. Similar to when Warnock went and then we spend years in

This is how I see the "keep wilder " section of our fans base



Or this

 

[de g.]

This is how I see the "keep wilder " section of our fans base

View attachment 213447

Or this

View attachment 213448

If that's all you can see, then it isn't surprising given your reading comprehension is lower than those three monkeys.

I'm Wilder agnostic. If we're going to replace him, it needs to be with someone who can take the club forward, and as yet no-one seems to have put forward a realistic option who could.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Few points here.

It was 92 points the team earned. It wasn't Wilders fault or the team that there was the points deduction. 8/10 of the last seasons that would result in promotion.

This turgid football point. Burnley's performances were very similar to ours in many matches, winning one nil countless times. Scott Parker inherited a very good team, better than Wilder had last summer and they still played an attritional defensive game, Sunderland were similar from what I saw too but De Bris inherited Tom Watson and Mayenda which were two of the better attacking players in the league. He also inherited most of that current team that got promoted. Wilder inherited a mess, albeit still with some good players but his recruitment last summer moulded is into a side that most seasons would go up.The injuries to Arblaster and Souttar (what a signing Souttar was by Wilder) cost us big time.

My last point is on AI/ developing over time/Brighton and Brentford.

A few posters have said I'm ok not going up if the model we adopt gets us there in with creative, athletic players, probably from abroad via data etc. I don't know if these fans have noted that the PL has gone on a level and some since Brentford and Brighton got promoted? We're likely to see most teams that go up to come straight back down whatever model they have. Bournemouth spent similar amounts to Forest to stay up. They needed instant PL players to do this, some came from the championship like Taverneir and Semenyo and Scott in Bournemouths case.

The rules on Brexit also make it harder to sign players from abroad like Brentford did. I appreciate there's the exception rule but they signed many players who would struggle for visa now from the second division in France etc. Norwich did similar too but in Germany.

Basically Brentford, Brighton in particular got promoted at a time when staying up, whilst difficult, was much more attainable than now. We finished 9th of course in our first season under Wilder. Can you see even Leeds finishing anything other than bottom five and they'll need to spend over £150m just to have a sniff at 4th bottom.

I definitely think there's a serious argument for a foreign manager more than ever who knows the French and Spanish leagues etc so we can utilise those markets and others more because that's where the value and quality is. When we've done it we've signed players not even good enough for the championship and made a mess of it!

In conclusion, I think sticking with Wilder with his knowledge of players in the UK would have been more than fine for next season. In the longer term I do think we're going to need to adopt a different approach but football has changed and it's becoming a closed ship regardless.

Burnley improved though. Earned 53 points in the last 23 games, scored 40 while still only conceding 7. They were 47 points and 29 scored in the 1st half. Parker had them flying by the end. 26 points, Scored 20, conceded 6 in their last 10. United were 14 points, scored 12, conceded 9.

United only scored 29 in the 2nd half of the season, conceding 24, 39 points. Earned 53 points in the first half, scored 34, conceded 12.

So after a big January investment, the team went from a 1st 23 record using PPG/GD of 106 and +44 gd if taken over a full season to 78 points and +10 based on 2nd 23 games results.

That's got to be something the owners are asking for answers on

 

[Blade56]

It has to be a very compelling candidate to replace Wilder. Similar to when Warnock went and then we spend years in the wilderness.

Agree, if the board remove Wilder the focus will move very much to them and their decision.

Genuinely don’t think many just want rid if Wilder.

My position is we have new owners, we are in their hands. They have made it clear change is on the way in the way the club operates. Wilder reportedly has an issue with not having total control (true/false?).

Non of us have a clear picture of what’s happening. My position is that in an ideal world Wilder would fall in line and make a go of the ‘new way’ and we would modernise, get promoted and become a stable PL team

But, we can’t change owner and if Wilder won’t do what they want we’ll end up focusing on what divides us rather than what unites us. That will shift the focus off the pitch just like S6 at the moment.

In a way it looks like its (or was) in Wilders hands unless off field antics and discipline have gone against him.

Whatever we kick off in 8 weeks and as usual seem to be in disarray.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I don’t personally see anyone as an apologist who doesn’t want change for change’s sake.

We’re not talking Danny Rohl levels of delusion by scraping 12th on the final day with a particularly low total and being declared one of the best in Europe.

We’re talking about a bloke who got us our highest points total at this level.

The suggestion is that could well be enough to at least retain his job.

Switching him out for someone with less of a track record of success isn’t something we should do lightly.

I don’t see why we can’t focus on the current season whilst also incorporating AI into your model. Football is a results business. It’s also an entertainment business it’s primarily results. If we wanted to see pretty football with no end of season interest we’d all watch Swansea. Promotion has to be the aim, especially in Year 2 of the parachute money.

It has to be a very compelling candidate to replace Wilder. Similar to when Warnock went and then we spend years in the wilderness.

How much attention would you give to the drop off in performances/points though?

2nd half of the season. 4 less scored, 12 more conceded, 13 less points.

 

[Aston max]

If that's all you can see, then it isn't surprising given your reading comprehension is lower than those three monkeys.

I'm Wilder agnostic. If we're going to replace him, it needs to be with someone who can take the club forward, and as yet no-one seems to have put forward a realistic option who could.

Point 1 is a typical wilder answer where everyone doesn’t know as much as he does !! Oh and I've got 3 degrees including a bachelors so don't try insulting my intelligence

Point 2 completely agree the next appointment has to be one who can move everything forward , this also depends on the ambitions of the board.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

How much attention would you give to the drop off in performances/points though?

2nd half of the season. 4 less scored, 12 more conceded, 13 less points.

Lots of people on here after Burnley on Boxing Day pointed the fact losing Souttar was a big big miss, that gave us time to replace him. Wilder instead signed someone he didn't trust and a striker that is absolutely wank. They will be on at that one as well.

Wilder must regret not signing a dominant centre half and persisting with donkey Robinson? The fact he makes him captain is gross misconduct IMO not fit to lace Sharps boots in terms of been a figurehead

 

[de g.]

Point 1 is a typical wilder answer where everyone doesn’t know as much as he does !! Oh and I've got 3 degrees including a bachelors so don't try insulting my intelligence

Point 2 completely agree the next appointment has to be one who can move everything forward , this also depends on the ambitions of the board.

Point 1 is that not everyone who is 'Wilder in' is head in the sand. It's got fuck all to do with degrees or education, and everything to do with you being too lazy to engage with their view or to make an argument of your own.

 

[Aston max]

Point 1 is that not everyone who is 'Wilder in' is head in the sand. It's got fuck all to do with degrees or education, and everything to do with you being too lazy to engage with their view or to make an argument of your own.

Afternoon chris

 

[54yrblade]

I don’t personally see anyone as an apologist who doesn’t want change for change’s sake.

We’re not talking Danny Rohl levels of delusion by scraping 12th on the final day with a particularly low total and being declared one of the best in Europe.

We’re talking about a bloke who got us our highest points total at this level.

The suggestion is that could well be enough to at least retain his job.

Switching him out for someone with less of a track record of success isn’t something we should do lightly.

I don’t see why we can’t focus on the current season whilst also incorporating AI into your model. Football is a results business. It’s also an entertainment business it’s primarily results. If we wanted to see pretty football with no end of season interest we’d all watch Swansea. Promotion has to be the aim, especially in Year 2 of the parachute money.

It has to be a very compelling candidate to replace Wilder. Similar to when Warnock went and then we spend years in the wilderness.

It is an entertainment business, which is why Wilder 1.0 worked and 2.0 doesn't.

I so recall that drive to the PL. Fearless, aggressive football, that we looked forward to seeing, backed by a raucous crowd who fed off what was going on the pitch and vice versa. It was the best atmosphere since Warnock, who was the best since since Dave Bassett's tenure. I'd also add that having a chairman and captain who were Blades played a huge part in that initial cementing of the reconnection between the club and fans. It wasn't just on Wilder.

By easy comparison, last season was, frankly, boring, one dimensional and we could set our watches by the formulaic timing of his substitutions. He was out thought by other managers, who had more to offer, tactically, particularly on the big game days. There was no reconnection needed when he came back. We weren't disconnected, although that doesn't fit a narrative, we were just sick of being battered week in, week out, and wanted something to shout about and to be proud of.

The results and 'entertainment', combined, are the reasons we're not in the PL.

The points weren't enough, because we underperformed when it mattered, repeatedly, and we could have succeeded had we had more belief and some of that 2016 onwards SUFC swagger and ability to affect games.

The evidence all suggests we don't still have that, and that it's not coming back any time soon.

 

[de g.]

Afternoon chris

I'm Wilder agnostic. If we're going to replace him, it needs to be with someone who can take the club forward, and as yet no-one seems to have put forward a realistic option who could.

You're either 12, or have an IQ of an equivalent number. Either way, you probably shouldn't try to argue with adults.

 

[Aston max]

Point 1 is that not everyone who is 'Wilder in' is head in the sand. It's got fuck all to do with degrees or education, and everything to do with you being too lazy to engage with their view or to make an argument of your own.

Do we really have to go down this road .
So you fully agree with his team selections a major issue that a lot of people have seen or are you so far invested in the " Wilder can do no wrong section "
Why play jlt when he has holding and baptiste waiting in the wings ( love the guy but this season should have been in a support role dropping in to cover injuries etc .
The major thing we needed in January was a centre half ( not sign one then ignore him !! )
Brewster should have been nowhere near that final starting 11

And please don't throw the 92 points

The majority of us see it why not you ???

 

[Aston max]

You're either 12, or have an IQ of an equivalent number. Either way, you probably shouldn't try to argue with adults.

Dropping to insults says more about you than me

 

[de g.]

Do we really have to go down this road .

What road? I've said already I'm ambivalent about Wilder .

So you fully agree with his team selections

No. But then I'm watching games without the benefit of seeing them daily in training, and without any kind of expertise in football.

a major issue that a lot of people have seen or are you so far invested in the " Wilder can do no wrong section "

Again, your reading comprehension. I'm not in that section, but then it's not a binary choice. I can have reservations about things he does without also seeing the potential problems of getting rid.

Why play jlt when he has holding and baptiste waiting in the wings ( love the guy but this season should have been in a support role dropping in to cover injuries etc .
The major thing we needed in January was a centre half ( not sign one then ignore him !! )

I don't know. Baptiste isn't ready, Holding is right sided? I hoped we would replace Souttar in Jan, I don't know why Holding didn't work out.

Brewster should have been nowhere near that final starting 11

Who else should have been? Brereton-Diaz was off it (and is left sided), Rak-Sakyi blew hot and cold, Brooks (reading between the lines) wasn't training at the level expected, O'Hare I love but he gets exposed too much on the right.

And please don't throw the 92 points

The majority of us see it why not you ???

Opinions are like arseholes. We all have one, most are full of shit. Why do you think yours smells any better than mine?

 

[Blade56]

If we're going to replace him, it needs to be with someone who can take the club forward, and as yet no-one seems to have put forward a realistic option who could.

It’s not our job to find someone who can fulfil the new owners ambitions. We’re not 100% sure what those ambitions and timescales are yet.
What is for sure if they decide to replace Wilder (and there are arguments both sides) it’s their responsibility to find an adequate replacement and their responsibility to answer to the club/fans if they get it wrong.
For what’s it’s worth I wish Wider could stay, do new owners bidding and get us playing again with promotion to PL but he’s making it obvious (again) it’s my way not the owners way, be it right or wrong they pay the bills.
As for insulting well respected member for having a bit of fun posting I suggest you give your 12 year old head a wobble.

Point 2 completely agree the next appointment has to be one who can move everything forward , this also depends on the ambitions of the board.

Exactly, and if they decide to replace their manager they are responsible for what happens next.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

When did this whole left foot, left sided central defender, right foot, right sided central defender become a thing? It never seemed to be an issue under former managers. I can't remember Warnock giving a toss, not that defenders would play it out of the back under him.

I can see how it can hinder you playing out wide, or as part of a back three. But as one of two centre backs it's neither a help nor hindrance as you've always got four passing options regardless of foot. Out wide to the full back next to you, sideways to your partner in central defence, back to the keeper (boohoo!), or forwards to a midfielder (yay!).

 

[robbiez666]

Sacked by Lorient the season before for getting them relegated.
Win ratio over 76 games 30%.

Régis Le Bris - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tactical genius?

He's very far from being a tactical genius but the way he treated Watson after he'd agree to sign for Brighton worked out perfectly for him to come on and score the winner. Desperate to both show the coach to be wrong and leave as a fan's hero.

 

[Frank the tank]

He's very far from being a tactical genius but the way he treated Watson after he'd agree to sign for Brighton worked out perfectly for him to come on and score the winner. Desperate to both show the coach to be wrong and leave as a fan's hero.

He was abysmal for them up until that one moment

 

[Aston max]

When did this whole left foot, left sided central defender, right foot, right sided central defender become a thing? It never seemed to be an issue under former managers. I can't remember Warnock giving a toss, not that defenders would play it out of the back under him.

I can see how it can hinder you playing out wide, or as part of a back three. But as one of two centre backs it's neither a help nor hindrance as you've always got four passing options regardless of foot. Out wide to the full back next to you, sideways to your partner in central defence, back to the keeper (boohoo!), or forwards to a midfielder (yay!).

Exactly I was a centre half and right footed my old manager put me left everytime, I played to a good level and never found it a issue, we all watched holding in there and he was confident and solid I just didn't get the issue with not playing him

 

[Dkc]

View attachment 213439View attachment 213440

Most people aren't 'Wilder apologists' and we aren't suffering from 'Wilder Stockholm Syndrome'. We simply think that we shouldn't sack our manager five months after awarding him a three year contract because we missed out on promotion by a whisker.

We aren't crazy. We represent the majority of fans, and some of us are frankly a little tired of people doing their best to sow discontent and get the club manager sacked in favour of some new unknown.

Sorry to tell you that the vast majority think Wilder should stay. If we are in the relegation zone at Christmas we may start to waver, but sacking him now would be a mad kneejerk reaction to a disappointing end to a good season.

 

[Aston max]

What road? I've said already I'm ambivalent about Wilder .


No. But then I'm watching games without the benefit of seeing them daily in training, and without any kind of expertise in football.


Again, your reading comprehension. I'm not in that section, but then it's not a binary choice. I can have reservations about things he does without also seeing the potential problems of getting rid.


I don't know. Baptiste isn't ready, Holding is right sided? I hoped we would replace Souttar in Jan, I don't know why Holding didn't work out.


Who else should have been? Brereton-Diaz was off it (and is left sided), Rak-Sakyi blew hot and cold, Brooks (reading between the lines) wasn't training at the level expected, O'Hare I love but he gets exposed too much on the right.


Opinions are like arseholes. We all have one, most are full of shit. Why do you think yours smells any better than mine?

 

[reedy63]

The Owners/Board of Directors want to make changes. That's fair enough they paid a lot of money to buy the club. I would think they offered Chris Wilder a new contract, thinking we are going back to the Premier League. They didn't have a crystal ball to see into the future. Now, after failing to get automatic promotion and failing in the playoff final.
They probably wished they had not given him a new contract. Chris Wilder has his faults baffling team selection and tactics, and his antics on and off the pitch.
The owners/board of directors will have seen all that, and some of them don't like that. Hence, the speculation where it came from, I have no idea.
I think if they wanted to sack him, they would have done so straight after the final whistle at Wembley. My opinion is to keep him on if they are willing to spend on new players/permit him to do that, most of his signings have been good, apart from Brewster/Cannon and one or two others. However, make it very clear to Chris Wilder is we have a poor start to next season, he will be sacked. He is a legend at our Beloved Clubs for what he has done for us. So I think they owe him that chance to prove he can get us up. He knows what will happen if He fails.

 

[Aston max]

Most people aren't 'Wilder apologists' and we aren't suffering from 'Wilder Stockholm Syndrome'. We simply think that we shouldn't sack our manager five months after awarding him a three year contract because we missed out on promotion by a whisker.

We aren't crazy. We represent the majority of fans, and some of us are frankly a little tired of people doing their best to sow discontent and get the club manager sacked in favour of some new unknown.

Sorry to tell you that the vast majority think Wilder should stay. If we are in the relegation zone at Christmas we may start to waver, but sacking him now would be a mad kneejerk reaction to a disappointing end to a good season.

Well written, but most of the blades I talk to in the real world would like him replacing.
My stance on him is my opinion "but" if the owners decide he's staying I'll support him and get behind the team , if it doesn’t work out and he's gone I won't smirk and laugh I'll actually be sad because he will lose a lot of supporters.
He's a legend at this club and I'd actually like it to keep that

 

[Sherwoodblade]

Do we really have to go down this road .
So you fully agree with his team selections a major issue that a lot of people have seen or are you so far invested in the " Wilder can do no wrong section "
Why play jlt when he has holding and baptiste waiting in the wings ( love the guy but this season should have been in a support role dropping in to cover injuries etc .
The major thing we needed in January was a centre half ( not sign one then ignore him !! )
Brewster should have been nowhere near that final starting 11

And please don't throw the 92 points

The majority of us see it why not you ???

I can see the dilemma for the new owners and why the board is split. 90/92 points is a good return over 46 games. There will be players who may want to sign for us based on the notion that we should be there or thereabouts again next season. On that basis some will be thinking Wilder is the man for next season. That is perfectly understandable.

However, they'll be others who think that he has bottled it when it mattered most. Beating Coventry and going top with a handful of games left but then losing the next 3 games, against opposition that we should be beating. Negative tactics which ultimately came back to haunt us in the second half of that play off final. The Plymouth away game should have been ample warning of what can go wrong if you go too negative with a narrow lead. A warning that I thought had been noted by our semi final win against Bristol City. Aston Max is a 100% right regarding his comment about JLT and Rob Holding. To not play a player who has won two FA cup finals with Arsenal on the same effing pitch that we were playing on, in another significant final is incompetence at its worst.

This leads to the conclusion that there is stubborn decision making and a manager who does not heed warnings or learn from mistakes he doubles down on those mistakes.

Perhaps the main sticking point for those board members who want him out is the AI signings. 2 of them signed last season have come nowhere near first team football. I'm not sure why that is. If they are not good enough then so be it. However, James McAtee struggled when he first started with us and there was plenty of criticism that he couldn't handle the men's game in the championship, but we persevered and he became a great midfielder for us. Is it that they are not good enough or is it because Wilder does not want to work with the new recruitment AI model and players recruited via it. If it is the latter then that could explain why some on the board want him gone.

Whether we like it or not, the owners will not want to see a manager being stubborn to their vision and direction in which they wish to move the club.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Most people aren't 'Wilder apologists' and we aren't suffering from 'Wilder Stockholm Syndrome'. We simply think that we shouldn't sack our manager five months after awarding him a three year contract because we missed out on promotion by a whisker.

We aren't crazy. We represent the majority of fans, and some of us are frankly a little tired of people doing their best to sow discontent and get the club manager sacked in favour of some new unknown.

Sorry to tell you that the vast majority think Wilder should stay. If we are in the relegation zone at Christmas we may start to waver, but sacking him now would be a mad kneejerk reaction to a disappointing end to a good season.

If Wilder is getting sacked then it'll be more than a knee jerk reaction to not going up.

It'll be the fact our defense fell apart after we lost Souttar and Wilder failed to address this. Picking Robinson all the time. The money spent in January where only Hamza made an impact, even then that was because he was an emergency right back because all the others were injured or crap. It'll be the square pegs in round holes despite being given money to strengthen the team. It'll be the week of hell and his meltdown both on and off the pitch including turning on the fans. His Wednesday baiting. It'll be our lack of style and opponents outplaying us week in, week out win, lose or draw. His stubborn refusal to change his ways and in game management where he has no plan B. It'll be the way he threw promotion away against Sunderland with negative and poor substitutions that gave them the advantage after they equalised. Add to that his refusal to sign overseas players and my way or the highway attitude to being in charge of recruitment, where his record with substantial money is poor. That no players improved as the season went on, something the new recruitment model is keen to encourage.

It's more than likely all of the above than just a knee jerk reaction to not going up. They'll be asking is he the man to build a team for the future capable of going up and staying up? Is he tactically savey enough to take us up and keep us up? Will he spend money wisely on players who improve the starting lineup and don't just waste wages warming the bench? Is his behaviour and conduct on and off the field what they need for their brand to attract sponsors and further investors?

If I was in charge I'd certainly be asking all of these questions.