92 points and AI

[de g.]

It’s not our job to find someone who can fulfil the new owners ambitions. We’re not 100% sure what those ambitions and timescales are yet.
What is for sure if they decide to replace Wilder (and there are arguments both sides) it’s their responsibility to find an adequate replacement and their responsibility to answer to the club/fans if they get it wrong.

Ok, so engage with the arguments. All you've done so far is write a great deal of the same thing over and over.

For what’s it’s worth I wish Wider could stay, do new owners bidding and get us playing again with promotion to PL but he’s making it obvious (again) it’s my way not the owners way, be it right or wrong they pay the bills.
As for insulting well respected member for having a bit of fun posting I suggest you give your 12 year old head a wobble.

Not sure who you are referring to as 'wrll respected'. The only thing I can say in respect of either of you is that I've shown all the respect that your posts deserved.

Exactly, and if they decide to replace their manager they are responsible for what happens next.

So why bother talking about it then?

 

[UTB Blade]

Blade56 - Whenever I see the title of this thread, I don't see it as the upper line of text in the frame below, as I believe you intended; I see it as the lower line of text, which is, of course, something completely different.

Therefore, B56, I feel a burning need to ask you a question...



If you'll be my bodyguard, can I be your long-lost pal?

 

[Champagneblade]

If that's all you can see, then it isn't surprising given your reading comprehension is lower than those three monkeys.

I'm Wilder agnostic. If we're going to replace him, it needs to be with someone who can take the club forward, and as yet no-one seems to have put forward a realistic option who could.

Your last paragraph- Bingo.

Change and figure out later, a bullshit idea. Same sort of plan that landed us Robson and David Weir.

Valid suggestion. Then that’s totally different.

 

[Blade56]

Ok, so engage with the arguments.

That’s the point, your’re obviously incapable of debate it’s all arguements

Not sure who you are referring to as 'wrll respected'.

Try using grammar checker, I’m dyslexic and can do better than you

So why bother talking about it then?

It’s a forum

 

[Champagneblade]

How much attention would you give to the drop off in performances/points though?

2nd half of the season. 4 less scored, 12 more conceded, 13 less points.

Depends if he is about to acknowledge that with his recruitment proposals.

If he suggests Dunne, Mepham and a couple of starters then that’s fine.

If he suggests Robbo is first pick then it isn’t. I can only assume that Holding had fitness issues because I thought bringing in Souttar when it was obvious Robbo would struggle to get back in was a bold and correct move.

I think Holding was a rush job, by the fact we ended up with 6 loans. Not that Denne wa playing centre back anyway at the time, but who know if we’d upped our offer to 3m for Dunne how that might have helped.

 

[Th!stledo]

Many of the games last season were a close call and the results could have easily gone against us.
To play out the same scenario next season and expect the same points tally, I feel, is being overly optimistic.

AI is not a system that is number crunching and spewing out statistical data.
If it was then every club would be able to access the same information, which will achieve little benefits to any individual club.
AI is more about how the data is filtered and analysed, based on specific criteria. Exactly like how a good football scout would do.
And like a scout it would appraise feedback of it's successes and failures and evolve and become more efficient at achieving success.
So exactly like a football scout but when used correctly, at a much greater efficiency and standard.
It would seem the club owners are confident that they have access to the right expertise to move us in the right direction in this field.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Most people aren't 'Wilder apologists' and we aren't suffering from 'Wilder Stockholm Syndrome'. We simply think that we shouldn't sack our manager five months after awarding him a three year contract because we missed out on promotion by a whisker.

We aren't crazy. We represent the majority of fans, and some of us are frankly a little tired of people doing their best to sow discontent and get the club manager sacked in favour of some new unknown.

Sorry to tell you that the vast majority think Wilder should stay. If we are in the relegation zone at Christmas we may start to waver, but sacking him now would be a mad kneejerk reaction to a disappointing end to a good season.

Sorry to tell you, but you speak for you and nobody else. You have not been elected as the spokesperson of the Wilder in brigade as far as I’m aware. Neither of us has a clue what the majority want, there is no way of measuring it, other than polls on here that want him out but are hardly representative.

 

[Dkc]

Sorry to tell you, but you speak for you and nobody else. You have not been elected as the spokesperson of the Wilder in brigade as far as I’m aware. Neither of us has a clue what the majority want, there is no way of measuring it, other than polls on here that want him out but are hardly representative.

You think the majority of fans support sacking him?

 

[Frank the tank]

This is just a forum for blades where we come to express our opinion
Mine is that with wilder we will guarantee top six but likely fall just short again

I look at the squad as it is now and I think it is primed for someone to come in who coaches the players to play in a way they enjoy that builds through relationships on the field and improves both their individual game and the teams through knowing each other's strengths and weaknesses and building their confidence as I saw in many teams we played last season
Many teams we beat and some we didn't but I looked at them enviously as opposed to our side which I just couldn't see what we were trying to achieve
No real discernible patterns of play ,weak defensive partnerships players played out of position all over the pitch and worst of all no effort seemingly on set plays

I just couldn't work out what we did from.monday to Friday on the training ground

 

[Nick Jansky]

You think the majority of fans support sacking him?

I don’t know. Nor do you. If I base it on the Blades I know, which is a lot, the majority want him out. But because there isn’t anything that resembles a large representative sample I would look as stupid as you just have if I started claiming the majority want him out. So I haven’t descended to that, at any point.

 

[Satan's Toilet Blade]

Most people aren't 'Wilder apologists' and we aren't suffering from 'Wilder Stockholm Syndrome'. We simply think that we shouldn't sack our manager five months after awarding him a three year contract because we missed out on promotion by a whisker.

We aren't crazy. We represent the majority of fans, and some of us are frankly a little tired of people doing their best to sow discontent and get the club manager sacked in favour of some new unknown.

Sorry to tell you that the vast majority think Wilder should stay. If we are in the relegation zone at Christmas we may start to waver, but sacking him now would be a mad kneejerk reaction to a disappointing end to a good season.

"We represent the majority of fans". Really? Most of the fans I speak are ambivalent at best about Wilder, if not outright hostile. He's stubborn, tactically inflexible, has favourites that he picks no matter what and often brings embarrassment to the club.

 

[reedy63]

I honestly don't know what this A1 is; it's a new way to find new players instead of having someone employed by the club to go and watch them.
Can someone explain it to us?

 

[Bell4]

Always the ignore button if you prefer not to read my input, I just tried it and it works.

I do it to myself

 

[Bell4]

"We represent the majority of fans". Really? Most of the fans I speak are ambivalent at best about Wilder, if not outright hostile. He's stubborn, tactically inflexible, has favourites that he picks no matter what and often brings embarrassment to the club.

For a clueless , inflexible , stubborn and embarrassing guy - he ain’t half done well - FFS

 

[Youngand70]

So a scenario or two.

So Billy Blade (no not Sharpe) works his nuts off to scrape enough money to get a season ticket, maybe more than one, for his kids. He maybe gets alot of ear ache from his missus for spending so much money following his beloved Blades. But every season he does the same.

Throughout the season he sees his players and their manager be responsible for 6 fines costing the club £455,500. In addition to that he sees these wonderful role models, some earning more than he can dream of, representing the club setting an unacceptable example to his kids and all the other young Blades out there. But of course what Billy doesn't realise is it it's all been a conspiracy by the referees, assistant referees and the F.A. who all may have been eating sandwiches at the time and taken their eye of the ball. Would VAR have made a difference he asks? Mmmm doubt it as it's in the clubs "book of excuses". Billy thinks is that what I'm busting my nuts for especially when there is no disciplinary action taken by the club and it's swept under the CEOs grubby carpet?

Then course there's the other end of the scale where Fortesque "Pint of Magnet" von Snuff who has loads a money and wants to do a sponsorship deal for his not so "greasy chip butty company". He looks at the £455,000 give away and the behaviour of the club players and management and thinks, no way am I contributing to the to the Blades "fine fund" or having my not so "greasy chip butties" associated with that undisciplined lot. I would sooner make donation to the National Dummy Throwing Charity.

Who said it's not fun following the Blades especially after a few schnapps here in the very warm Tyrol night air.

 

[Brian Deane]

So a scenario or two.

So Billy Blade (no not Sharpe) works his nuts off to scrape enough money to get a season ticket, maybe more than one, for his kids. He maybe gets alot of ear ache from his missus for spending so much money following his beloved Blades. But every season he does the same.

Throughout the season he sees his players and their manager be responsible for 6 fines costing the club £455,500. In addition to that he sees these wonderful role models, some earning more than he can dream of, representing the club setting an unacceptable example to his kids and all the other young Blades out there. But of course what Billy doesn't realise is it it's all been a conspiracy by the referees, assistant referees and the F.A. who all may have been eating sandwiches at the time and taken their eye of the ball. Would VAR have made a difference he asks? Mmmm doubt it as it's in the clubs "book of excuses". Billy thinks is that what I'm busting my nuts for especially when there is no disciplinary action taken by the club and it's swept under the CEOs grubby carpet?

Then course there's the other end of the scale where Fortesque "Pint of Magnet" von Snuff who has loads a money and wants to do a sponsorship deal for his not so "greasy chip butty company". He looks at the £455,000 give away and the behaviour of the club players and management and thinks, no way am I contributing to the to the Blades "fine fund" or having my not so "greasy chip butties" associated with that undisciplined lot. I would sooner make donation to the National Dummy Throwing Charity.

Who said it's not fun following the Blades especially after a few schnapps here in the very warm Tyrol night air.

I for one don't see that the club itself should be paying these fines. It should be out of the wages / bonuses of the players.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

This is just a forum for blades where we come to express our opinion
Mine is that with wilder we will guarantee top six but likely fall just short again

I look at the squad as it is now and I think it is primed for someone to come in who coaches the players to play in a way they enjoy that builds through relationships on the field and improves both their individual game and the teams through knowing each other's strengths and weaknesses and building their confidence as I saw in many teams we played last season
Many teams we beat and some we didn't but I looked at them enviously as opposed to our side which I just couldn't see what we were trying to achieve
No real discernible patterns of play ,weak defensive partnerships players played out of position all over the pitch and worst of all no effort seemingly on set plays

I just couldn't work out what we did from.monday to Friday on the training ground

This

 

[Blade56]

For a clueless , inflexible , stubborn and embarrassing guy - he ain’t half done well - FFS

Just not well enough

This is just a forum for blades where we come to express our opinion
Mine is that with wilder we will guarantee top six but likely fall just short again

I look at the squad as it is now and I think it is primed for someone to come in who coaches the players to play in a way they enjoy that builds through relationships on the field and improves both their individual game and the teams through knowing each other's strengths and weaknesses and building their confidence as I saw in many teams we played last season
Many teams we beat and some we didn't but I looked at them enviously as opposed to our side which I just couldn't see what we were trying to achieve
No real discernible patterns of play ,weak defensive partnerships players played out of position all over the pitch and worst of all no effort seemingly on set plays

I just couldn't work out what we did from.monday to Friday on the training ground

feck me, based on that insightful post alone I’ve taken you off ignore. Hope I don’t regret it

 

[Slim Man]

I wouldn’t give LeBris much credit either.

They went into the Play Offs in abject form, were not the best side against Coventry but sneaked through mainly due to glaring mistakes.

In the final, he got his first half tactics totally wrong such that in any other game he’d have been 2-0 down and 3-0 or 4-0 at half time would not have been unfair, they were hopeless and we were not ruthless enough.

Second half was similar to Leeds and other games where we simply don’t have players fit enough to do what they need to for a full match. The fact Hamer and other came off injured was a massive boost to Sunderland whose winning goal was a result of us having a man light though, whether it was a risk worth taking at that stage is a question that benefits from hindsight. Can you hold out for 2 minutes with a man light to the benefit of getting it right in extra time? Most teams would. We failed at the vital moment.

Sunderland were pretty much one of the luckiest teams alive to get through the play offs but nobody cares because it’s a results business. Same as when we played Portsmouth at home. It was a useful 3 points but they were miles better. Unfortunately this went against us on the big stage. As per usual with United, unfortunately.

That's laughable really

If we didn't get the job done, we didn't get the job done. They weren't just 'lucky'

We were shite in the second half

 

[robbiez666]

Exactly I was a centre half and right footed my old manager put me left everytime, I played to a good level and never found it a issue, we all watched holding in there and he was confident and solid I just didn't get the issue with not playing him

Anel managed somehow to play there next to Souttar.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'm sick to death of reading this "92pts give him another chance shite". Leeds and Burnley were nothing that special even if they did achieve 100pts from one of the poorest Championship ever there was only ever four teams in the promotion race. A very young Sunderland were the first to fall to the pressure but were so far ahead of the rest they knew they were in the play offs. Leeds had a big wobble which left us top with not many games left and we imploded.
We were looking good until Souter got injured Wilder made his first mistake by not replacing him, he had three weeks to do it instead he loans a player who isn't fit and buys a striker we didn't really need.
Then we had the embarrassing dancing on the tables (beating a piss poor pig side was not that big a thing). Poor performances most of the season scraping 1-0 wins only scoring more than twice a few times. Still it still looked good being top with 5 or 6 games to go three of them against relegation threatened teams yet Wilder still plays defensive playing his favourites even if they are not in their best positions. Three losses on the bounce threw away auto promotion and Wilder lost the plot blaming anyone but himself (sounds familiar) poor discipline on and of the field and a quarter of a million in fines.
What says it all for me is against the top four contenders we won one and lost the rest, we were good at getting results against the poor side but came up short when it mattered no plan B if plan A wasn't working. Wilder bigging up the other teams put it into the players heads that they were better than us, we lost those games in the dressing room. No doubt Wilder is still blaming VAR for throwing away the play off final when in reality it was his go defensive tactics and inability to change things in the second half.
He really does have to go he is a busted flush, certainly not the manager who stumbled onto a winning formula in 2019.

“from one of the poorest Championship ever there was”

This. Never mentioned by some.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Agree with the poor championship comments there was some right dross in there. Obviously we lost to Burnley and Leeds both times but we should have been beating QPR at home, pompey away and THOSE 3 games, we wouldn't even be discussing it now.

 

[Dan Emery]

I think it is incredibly naive to even contemplate that player data analytics have NOT been used to some extent with previous player recruitment.

New owners appear to want to ramp this up. No problem. Let’s see how it goes.

But let’s not think for 1 minute that AI driven models are the be all and end all. They are not.

A useful tool ? Yes.

The only resource tool at our disposal ? Fuck no !!!

UTB

Exactly - AI is a useful and it's about the implementation. Some on here seem to think we're trying to leverage Skynet or something

 

[OLDBLADE43]

Lots of people on here after Burnley on Boxing Day pointed the fact losing Souttar was a big big miss, that gave us time to replace him. Wilder instead signed someone he didn't trust and a striker that is absolutely wank. They will be on at that one as well.

Wilder must regret not signing a dominant centre half and persisting with donkey Robinson? The fact he makes him captain is gross misconduct IMO not fit to lace Sharps boots in terms of been a figurehead

From what I have read on here we tried to sign Dunne with an offer of £2mill which was rejected. I don't know who decided not to increase the offer. I also from what I read on here is that we still want Dunne. So it could be that Wilder regrets the board (or himself) not increasing the offer for Dunne that may have resulted in a better finish last season. It's all ifs and buts isn't it.

 

[Sherwoodblade]

If Wilder is getting sacked then it'll be more than a knee jerk reaction to not going up.

It'll be the fact our defense fell apart after we lost Souttar and Wilder failed to address this. Picking Robinson all the time. The money spent in January where only Hamza made an impact, even then that was because he was an emergency right back because all the others were injured or crap. It'll be the square pegs in round holes despite being given money to strengthen the team. It'll be the week of hell and his meltdown both on and off the pitch including turning on the fans. His Wednesday baiting. It'll be our lack of style and opponents outplaying us week in, week out win, lose or draw. His stubborn refusal to change his ways and in game management where he has no plan B. It'll be the way he threw promotion away against Sunderland with negative and poor substitutions that gave them the advantage after they equalised. Add to that his refusal to sign overseas players and my way or the highway attitude to being in charge of recruitment, where his record with substantial money is poor. That no players improved as the season went on, something the new recruitment model is keen to encourage.

It's more than likely all of the above than just a knee jerk reaction to not going up. They'll be asking is he the man to build a team for the future capable of going up and staying up? Is he tactically savey enough to take us up and keep us up? Will he spend money wisely on players who improve the starting lineup and don't just waste wages warming the bench? Is his behaviour and conduct on and off the field what they need for their brand to attract sponsors and further investors?

If I was in charge I'd certainly be asking all of these questions.

Brilliant post

 

[Aston max]

“from one of the poorest Championship ever there was”

This. Never mentioned by some.

Not if you ask anyone at S6

 

[Railway Blade]

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/spo...thletic-summer-transfer-cook-lennon-bulgaria/

This might go some way to explaining why our data led transfer dealings appear to be set on "Bulgaria" default setting.

Not sure whether that's a good thing or not.

Also explains that its a mix and not purely data led.

 

[LBA_Blade]

These two things are dominating nearly every thread discussion. Can we dump/debunk them and the misunderstanding of them on here and get back to normal debate?

92 points
First off we did not finish with 92 points, yes we won 28 games and drew 8. But we broke the same rules are charged with and were deducted -2 points so. If anyone argues we finished on 92 it’s agreeing with that they shouldn’t get a points deduction.

Secondly 90 points won us nothing. Which would we rather have:
1. (92) 90 points and lose at Wembley?
2. Lose 3 out of 5 run in games, finish on 76 points and get promoted to the PL?

I won’t bother doing a pole or running it by AI because I know the answer.

Painful as it is this is how the table finished and we won sweat fa and Sunderland were promoted.

This was down to tactical nouse by Bris. He knew they were in the playoffs for a couple of months and their performances dipped, did he rest the team as results didn’t matter? He saved it for the semis and final of the play offs. He had the tactical ability I don’t think Wilder has. It was classic turtle and hare race with Wilder overusing the whip at the end (even though it no longer mattered) but Wilders stated pride and pashun to get to 90 points ran out and tactical nouse won. Let’s face it Bris did it on Lampard in the semis as well.

So, please can we stop arguing about 92(90) points? Either are totally irrelevant. That wasn’t the deciding factor in the end it was the managers tactical ability.

Yes, Wilder can probably get a good points tally again next season with turgid hit, run and hide football, but can he get us promotion?

View attachment 213433

AI
I honestly think reading some of the contributions that some think the new board come in on Monday morning and say to Alexa give me a list of strikers for £1m that will score 30 goals next season, get a list and give it to the manager to pick from, really?

Brentford, and Brighton have used data analytics for years and slowly built an infrastructure for recruitment that it’s hard to challenge as the gold standard. Brentford, little old Brentford, average crowds around 2,000 when we were storming the PL with Wilder, now they average 17,000 and are a stable PL club. Again, where would we rather be now? No pole required.

The competitive edge of AI/data analytics are so important Tottenham have just raided Brentford in a desperate attempt to get into the ‘modern game’ on the pitch in their shiny new stadium yet we seem to be arguing the opposite against AI (we’ve always used data even it was on pen and paper, a spread sheet etc). AI is just used to assimilate much more data (BIG data) in a nano second. Its success is only as good as the data it has access to ‘learn’ from, that’s where it gives a competitive advantage.

So, while everyone is turning to AI to analyse data should we stand like Luddite's with pick axe handles and pitch forks in hand denouncing it in favour of gut feel, grit and pashun to improve and get us over the line when a bit of tactical nouse is needed not just blood and guts? Nah, again don’t think I need to add a pole in.

So, get the 92 points and AI myths out on here in favour or debunk that’s your choice.

The 4 games for me, Hull at Home, Millwall (home), Oxford and Plymouth away. On paper (for what that is worth) were easily winnable games, at the time even if you say Hull was "a step too far" we didn't do enough in the games against Leeds or Burnley and should have at least won one of the West Brom games rather than dropping points even last game of season against Blackburn should have been turned into a win. However if we would have managed the controllables there was at least 12 points that would have seen us finish on 102 and taken top but we didn't so we move on.

 

[diplomat]

Agree

It's as irrelevant as the Ched season and can get in the bin and nearly as embarrassing as the "triple assault" season celebrations when we won the square route of fuck all

It was a great season though!

 

[diplomat]

This is just a forum for blades where we come to express our opinion
Mine is that with wilder we will guarantee top six but likely fall just short again

I look at the squad as it is now and I think it is primed for someone to come in who coaches the players to play in a way they enjoy that builds through relationships on the field and improves both their individual game and the teams through knowing each other's strengths and weaknesses and building their confidence as I saw in many teams we played last season
Many teams we beat and some we didn't but I looked at them enviously as opposed to our side which I just couldn't see what we were trying to achieve
No real discernible patterns of play ,weak defensive partnerships players played out of position all over the pitch and worst of all no effort seemingly on set plays

I just couldn't work out what we did from.monday to Friday on the training ground

I kind of agree with that but I also think a lot of what we achieved deserves great credit because we were managing a threadbare squad until right at the end. Weirdly we dropped off when we had more options and fully fit players. That’s the concern.

I read/heard somewhere that we negotiated the -2 to enable us to have a transfer window in the summer that we were banned from having. With all the players leaving and no incomings we’d have been in an almighty struggle at the wrong end of the table.