92 points and AI

[Frank the tank]

I kind of agree with that but I also think a lot of what we achieved deserves great credit because we were managing a threadbare squad until right at the end. Weirdly we dropped off when we had more options and fully fit players. That’s the concern.

I read/heard somewhere that we negotiated the -2 to enable us to have a transfer window in the summer that we were banned from having. With all the players leaving and no incomings we’d have been in an almighty struggle at the wrong end of the table.

Yes we do dereve great credit or at least wilder does for the first half of the season but when the pressure was on he couldn't handle it

We didn't win any big games and handed promotion to Leeds and Burnley ( particularly Leeds) when we had the initiative
And did the same in the play off final
A solid centre back partnership would have seen us through these games but we all know what happened instead and I dont have any confidence that will be fixed next season with his love affair with Jack Robinson continuing
When it really never should have started

 

[skegblade]

Few points here.

It was 92 points the team earned. It wasn't Wilders fault or the team that there was the points deduction. 8/10 of the last seasons that would result in promotion.

This turgid football point. Burnley's performances were very similar to ours in many matches, winning one nil countless times. Scott Parker inherited a very good team, better than Wilder had last summer and they still played an attritional defensive game, Sunderland were similar from what I saw too but De Bris inherited Tom Watson and Mayenda which were two of the better attacking players in the league. He also inherited most of that current team that got promoted. Wilder inherited a mess, albeit still with some good players but his recruitment last summer moulded is into a side that most seasons would go up.The injuries to Arblaster and Souttar (what a signing Souttar was by Wilder) cost us big time.

My last point is on AI/ developing over time/Brighton and Brentford.

A few posters have said I'm ok not going up if the model we adopt gets us there in with creative, athletic players, probably from abroad via data etc. I don't know if these fans have noted that the PL has gone on a level and some since Brentford and Brighton got promoted? We're likely to see most teams that go up to come straight back down whatever model they have. Bournemouth spent similar amounts to Forest to stay up. They needed instant PL players to do this, some came from the championship like Taverneir and Semenyo and Scott in Bournemouths case.

The rules on Brexit also make it harder to sign players from abroad like Brentford did. I appreciate there's the exception rule but they signed many players who would struggle for visa now from the second division in France etc. Norwich did similar too but in Germany.

Basically Brentford, Brighton in particular got promoted at a time when staying up, whilst difficult, was much more attainable than now. We finished 9th of course in our first season under Wilder. Can you see even Leeds finishing anything other than bottom five and they'll need to spend over £150m just to have a sniff at 4th bottom.

I definitely think there's a serious argument for a foreign manager more than ever who knows the French and Spanish leagues etc so we can utilise those markets and others more because that's where the value and quality is. When we've done it we've signed players not even good enough for the championship and made a mess of it!

In conclusion, I think sticking with Wilder with his knowledge of players in the UK would have been more than fine for next season. In the longer term I do think we're going to need to adopt a different approach but football has changed and it's becoming a closed ship regardless.

Points earned are not relative when theres a 2 point penalty,which is what the opening post is stating ,
If we earned 101 points we still fail in auto promotion, credit to the two
who actually earned points without any prnalties
People who criticise CW for .5 m in fines should look at the mismanagement that gave us - 2 in the 1st place

 

[Blade56]

Points earned are not relative when theres a 2 point penalty,which is what the opening post is stating ,
If we earned 101 points we still fail in auto promotion, credit to the two
who actually earned points without any prnalties
People who criticise CW for .5 m in fines should look at the mismanagement that gave us - 2 in the 1st place

Thankfully that management has gone. Gone with a slice of credit for getting rid of McCabe, bringing the assets back together and 2 promotions to PL. shame he wasn’t wealthy enough to keep us up.

 

[Nick Jansky]

People who criticise CW for .5 m in fines should look at the mismanagement that gave us - 2 in the 1st place

It’s quite possible to look at both. Neither cost us promotion, both were big negatives.

 

[newforestblade]

These two things are dominating nearly every thread discussion. Can we dump/debunk them and the misunderstanding of them on here and get back to normal debate?

92 points
First off we did not finish with 92 points, yes we won 28 games and drew 8. But we broke the same rules are charged with and were deducted -2 points so. If anyone argues we finished on 92 it’s agreeing with that they shouldn’t get a points deduction.

Secondly 90 points won us nothing. Which would we rather have:
1. (92) 90 points and lose at Wembley?
2. Lose 3 out of 5 run in games, finish on 76 points and get promoted to the PL?

I won’t bother doing a pole or running it by AI because I know the answer.

Painful as it is this is how the table finished and we won sweat fa and Sunderland were promoted.

This was down to tactical nouse by Bris. He knew they were in the playoffs for a couple of months and their performances dipped, did he rest the team as results didn’t matter? He saved it for the semis and final of the play offs. He had the tactical ability I don’t think Wilder has. It was classic turtle and hare race with Wilder overusing the whip at the end (even though it no longer mattered) but Wilders stated pride and pashun to get to 90 points ran out and tactical nouse won. Let’s face it Bris did it on Lampard in the semis as well.

So, please can we stop arguing about 92(90) points? Either are totally irrelevant. That wasn’t the deciding factor in the end it was the managers tactical ability.

Yes, Wilder can probably get a good points tally again next season with turgid hit, run and hide football, but can he get us promotion?

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AI
I honestly think reading some of the contributions that some think the new board come in on Monday morning and say to Alexa give me a list of strikers for £1m that will score 30 goals next season, get a list and give it to the manager to pick from, really?

Brentford, and Brighton have used data analytics for years and slowly built an infrastructure for recruitment that it’s hard to challenge as the gold standard. Brentford, little old Brentford, average crowds around 2,000 when we were storming the PL with Wilder, now they average 17,000 and are a stable PL club. Again, where would we rather be now? No pole required.

The competitive edge of AI/data analytics are so important Tottenham have just raided Brentford in a desperate attempt to get into the ‘modern game’ on the pitch in their shiny new stadium yet we seem to be arguing the opposite against AI (we’ve always used data even it was on pen and paper, a spread sheet etc). AI is just used to assimilate much more data (BIG data) in a nano second. Its success is only as good as the data it has access to ‘learn’ from, that’s where it gives a competitive advantage.

So, while everyone is turning to AI to analyse data should we stand like Luddite's with pick axe handles and pitch forks in hand denouncing it in favour of gut feel, grit and pashun to improve and get us over the line when a bit of tactical nouse is needed not just blood and guts? Nah, again don’t think I need to add a pole in.

So, get the 92 points and AI myths out on here in favour or debunk that’s your choice.

Good point calling it "hit run and hide".
If they'd spent more games and the final putting teams to bed they'd be now in the premiership

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

What I want to know is, when AI is picking up young African men quicker than the RNLI, does AI have to click a box to say that it IS a robot and then press squares with washing machines on them each time it accesses the Bulgarian league site?

 

[Nick Jansky]

What I want to know is, when AI is picking up young African men quicker than the RNLI, does AI have to click a box to say that it IS a robot and then press squares with washing machines on them each time it accesses the Bulgarian league site?

Yes, you’ve got it. Well done.