John Lundstram

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alcoblade said:
Before we lay any blame at Wilder's feet, I think we'd have to know when the contract negotiations actually started, how much Lundstrum is asking for, and how much sway Wilder has over the top end salary scales.

And also factor in that if Wilder had offered him 3 years at the start of this season, that would probably have been the most criticised thing he'd done since he arrived. Though he had some plans for Lundstrum, I doubt it was for him to be a mainstay in our team. His form has taken everybody by surprise, and it was impossible to see it coming.
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I’m not laying the blame at anybody’s feet because as I’ve said, and said in my first post I will criticise him IF LUNNY LEAVES FOR NOTHING IN JUNE.
That hasn’t happened yet.
 

BushBlade said:
I’m not laying the blame at anybody’s feet because as I’ve said, and said in my first post I will criticise him IF LUNNY LEAVES FOR NOTHING IN JUNE.
That hasn’t happened yet.
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Which doesn't address my point at all. :)
 
I think he was played pre season to see if he was capable of the squad,let alone the first 11, the rest is history, this hopefully will serve as a lesson to the rest that if you put in the work and have a good attitude you get rewarded
 
BushBlade said:
In which case, he should have offered him a new contract then, when he decided he couldn’t buy a better player.
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Not saying you’re wrong - just thinking out loud. They may well have started conversations at that point, we just don’t know.

I feel quite relaxed about it. I think Lunny is enjoying his football this season - as he should be playing out of his skin in the top flight. So I’d be quite surprised if he did actually leave for nothing / didn’t sign soon.

I think amongst the many things wilder does well, one of his main strengths is handling the first team squad contract situation. He’s rewarded his top performers and regular players with new deals when the time is right and got rid of most of the players we’ve left behind progression wise. There’s a few we could argue haven’t gone as well as we’d hoped but no manager has ever got every signing / contact right. I personally think he’s got far more right than wrong and for me that includes how he handled Duffy.
 
alcoblade said:
Which doesn't address my point at all. :)
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My point is - I don’t like criticising Wilder. I particularly don’t like criticising him, or anyone else, for something that hasn’t happened. If it does, we can discuss it.
 
ben1987 said:
Not saying you’re wrong - just thinking out loud. They may well have started conversations at that point, we just don’t know.

I feel quite relaxed about it. I think Lunny is enjoying his football this season - as he should be playing out of his skin in the top flight. So I’d be quite surprised if he did actually leave for nothing / didn’t sign soon.

I think amongst the many things wilder does well, one of his main strengths is handling the first team squad contract situation. He’s rewarded his top performers and regular players with new deals when the time is right and got rid of most of the players we’ve left behind progression wise. There’s a few we could argue haven’t gone as well as we’d hoped but no manager has ever got every signing / contact right. I personally think he’s got far more right than wrong and for me that includes how he handled Duffy.
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Agree and it’s more or less my thoughts. I just made a comment that if Lunny walked away at the end of the season on a free I’d be critical of Wilder. And I will be. But not now, because he hasn’t walked on a free. It seems some posters just want an argument.
 
BushBlade said:
My point is - I don’t like criticising Wilder. I particularly don’t like criticising him, or anyone else, for something that hasn’t happened. If it does, we can discuss it.
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So why make the point now then?

I'll save all the same questions for if and when it happens then.

On a related note, if it turns out that at some point in future Wilder is an Axe maniac, I think we should consider his position. However, don't anyone challenge me on this, because he isn't an axe murderer yet. :D
 
BushBlade said:
Agree and it’s more or less my thoughts. I just made a comment that if Lunny walked away at the end of the season on a free I’d be critical of Wilder. And I will be. But not now, because he hasn’t walked on a free. It seems some posters just want an argument.
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I didn't want an argument - it was an honest question, but you don't feel free to address it because though you're happy to pose a scenario on a message board, you aren't happy to discuss it until it happens - which seems quite ridiculous.
 
alcoblade said:
On a related note, if it turns out that at some point in future Wilder is an Axe maniac, I think we should consider his position. However, don't anyone challenge me on this, because he isn't an axe murderer yet
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Have you been on the Duffy thread?

I want to see the proof that Wilder isn't an axe murderer, otherwise he is clearly to blame for Duffy leaving. Some on that thread make it clear we should always back up a troublesome player with a gobby dad, rather than the bloke who has transformed the club.

If you don't provide the 'not -an-axe-murderer' proof quickly, it will be obvious he is one and not re-signing Lunny will be the least of his problems.
 
ben1987 said:
Not saying you’re wrong - just thinking out loud. They may well have started conversations at that point, we just don’t know.

I feel quite relaxed about it. I think Lunny is enjoying his football this season - as he should be playing out of his skin in the top flight. So I’d be quite surprised if he did actually leave for nothing / didn’t sign soon.

I think amongst the many things wilder does well, one of his main strengths is handling the first team squad contract situation. He’s rewarded his top performers and regular players with new deals when the time is right and got rid of most of the players we’ve left behind progression wise. There’s a few we could argue haven’t gone as well as we’d hoped but no manager has ever got every signing / contact right. I personally think he’s got far more right than wrong and for me that includes how he handled Duffy.
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Agreed. And regarding Wilder's handling of this;

We don't know if Wilder is in a position to make the deal. We don't know if Lundstrum is asking for us to break our wage structure or placing other ridiculous demands. We don't know that we didn't start negotiations along time ago.

We do know that he wasn't highly rated, and barely started for us before this season.
 
alcoblade said:
I didn't want an argument - it was an honest question, but you don't feel free to address it because though you're happy to pose a scenario on a message board, you aren't happy to discuss it until it happens - which seems quite ridiculous.
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It was a single line comment as part of a wider discussion. You’re close to trolling me now. As you’ve already said, we don’t know the full details yet, which will probably only come out if he leaves. When it does, we can discuss it. Right now, you seem intent on trying to get me to slag Wilder off, which I’m not going to do.
 
BushBlade said:
It was a single line comment as part of a wider discussion. You’re close to trolling me now. As you’ve already said, we don’t know the full details yet, which will probably only come out if he leaves. When it does, we can discuss it. Right now, you seem intent on trying to get me to slag Wilder off, which I’m not going to do.
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Seriously?

I think you should go back to my opening questions, and re read them imagining that I was just wanting a discussion on why you would (in future, I know) hold Wilder accountable, with a few emojis thrown in to show the lightheartedness.

Your replies have been utterly bizarre on this. Are you having a bad day, because you're normally very balanced?
 

I wouldn't put it past Liverpool to take him on a free (or small January transfer fee) and put him on £75k a week to sit as back up and play the odd few cup and lower end European games per season.

If that were to be the case who could blame Lunny?

I really hope his contract is sorted and he stays with us but if big bucks start talking then we will be blown out of the water.
 
alcoblade said:
Seriously?

I think you should go back to my opening questions, and re read them imagining that I was just wanting a discussion on why you would (in future, I know) hold Wilder accountable, with a few emojis thrown in to show the lightheartedness.

Your replies have been utterly bizarre on this. Are you having a bad day, because you're normally very balanced?
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I answered that in my first reply and I’ve made it clear I don’t like being critical of the best manager I’ve ever seen at the Lane. I had a bad day yesterday, hence the slightly grumpy comment about Wilder’s interview and the Lunny situation. I am politely trying to close down this discussion without being offensive or rude because, as I said in my reply to another poster, in the bottom of my heart, I think Wilder will sort it out, like he usually does.
 
He has worked incredibly hard to get himself as fit as he is so he's better equipped to do the role he's been asked to fulfil in the team. However, I still think he looks like a fish out of water sometimes trying to get up and down the right rather than his more natural position of sitting deeper and dictating play (i.e. Norwood's role).

It would of course be a shame if he left, especially for free but depending on what he / his representative are asking for, I can see why the club are reluctant to pay over the odds to retain his services. If another club feel he's worth more and he'd prefer to move then thank you and good luck to him.
 
Riccardo Scaddetto

Offered a new deal. Increase of wages and a luxury hamper. Lunny thinking about it over Xmas, but has been allowed to keep the hamper.
 
BushBlade said:
I answered that in my first reply and I’ve made it clear I don’t like being critical of the best manager I’ve ever seen at the Lane. I had a bad day yesterday, hence the slightly grumpy comment about Wilder’s interview and the Lunny situation. I am politely trying to close down this discussion without being offensive or rude because, as I said in my reply to another poster, in the bottom of my heart, I think Wilder will sort it out, like he usually does.
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What I was trying do get at, in nothing more than a discussion, was that it might not be within Wilder's power to sort it out for a number of reasons. I wouldn't lay blame at his feet until I knew it was. You're free to see it differently without upsetting me.

But as for some reason this is very contentious for you, let's leave it there.
 
alcoblade said:
What I was trying do get at, in nothing more than a discussion, was that it might not be within Wilder's power to sort it out for a number of reasons. I wouldn't lay blame at his feet until I knew it was. You're free to see it differently without upsetting me.

But as for some reason this is very contentious for you, let's leave it there.
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Yes, since my post yesterday I’ve considered that possibility and it’s not something I want to contemplate at the moment. There’s enough scaremongering on here without us speculating on things that may have a significant negative impact on the club.
 
Grecian2000 said:
I'd be fucking astonished.
He's come on leaps and bounds BUT Liverpool!
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£3.5m a year over say a 3 year contract = £10.5m. That is absolutely peanuts to them for a player, and local lad, who could slot in in times of crisis and play 6-10 of their lesser games per season - giving their first choices a rest. I doubt it too, but that is the sort of scenario that would force us to let Lunny go. Can't see him going to another lower prem club.

Liverpool are not a squad of huge name players - Shakiri, Milner, Lallana for example are all in and around their squad. They have a fantastic balance of players and personalities. Too many big time charlies spoil the apple cart.
 
Snake said:
£3.5m a year over say a 3 year contract = £10.5m. That is absolutely peanuts to them for a player, and local lad, who could slot in in times of crisis and play 6-10 of their lesser games per season - giving their first choices a rest. I doubt it too, but that is the sort of scenario that would force us to let Lunny go. Can't see him going to another lower prem club.

Liverpool are not a squad of huge name players - Shakiri, Milner, Lallana for example are all in and around their squad. They have a fantastic balance of players and personalities. Too many big time charlies spoil the apple cart.
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A return to Everton would surely be more likely?
 
None of us saw what Lundstram could do before the start of this season. However, we're not privy to training and everything that goes on behind closed doors. If he does leave on a free, I think the management team do possibly come in for criticism. After almost loaning Brooks out to Chesterfield, there has to be a question mark over their ability to judge young talent and whether they're ready or not. They could just be two anomalies and yet I can't think of an example of a young player who we've had on the books and has not been playing coming through, other than these two. It seems astonishing that you'd be confident enough to start the season in a higher division with a Lundstram in the team yet not offer him a further contract. Even if that contract had release clauses built in. However, there's something going right when both these players were signed in the first place.

He's played almost every minute and 3 goals and 2 assists which have contributed to 4 victories.
 
Mouth of the South said:
He has worked incredibly hard to get himself as fit as he is so he's better equipped to do the role he's been asked to fulfil in the team. However, I still think he looks like a fish out of water sometimes trying to get up and down the right rather than his more natural position of sitting deeper and dictating play (i.e. Norwood's role).

It would of course be a shame if he left, especially for free but depending on what he / his representative are asking for, I can see why the club are reluctant to pay over the odds to retain his services. If another club feel he's worth more and he'd prefer to move then thank you and good luck to him.
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Really disagree with this - think the change of position has been fantastic for him, he looks much more accomplished, natural and dangerous in his box-to-box role than he ever did as a deep-laying playmaker. He seems to enjoy making those lung-busting runs and late darts into the box, something the Norwood-role wouldn't allow him. He's talked in interviews about how his athleticism makes him suited to PL football, and that would be less of an asset in a deeper role (in our system), i think
 

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