£40m worth of sales before any new signings - The Athletic

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jono_t2000 said:
I would have to agree i would be surprised if we got anywhere close to £20 mill for Egan.

Not only is he pushing 30 but he is fairly limited. Yes he does a good job for us as the old school blocker type but don't think his ball playing skills are up to demand for the PL
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I agree with your assessment on his ability, although that's never stopped PL clubs before, they'll only see he's played x PL games and therefore he's at least £20M player.
I think he's also the easiest for us to replace in our 3-5-2 formation but I think you're wildly out in your valuation of what they're likely to pay.

Of course I'll be equally chuffed if they don't pay it, as I think that's what we'll be asking for. No point us doing a deal at £10-15M for him, may as well keep him for that.
 

Jacobsenthecrab said:
£40m is exactly the average sales that relegated teams have made over the past few seasons so it sounds about right.
Both Watford and Norwich raised this amount last year and Bournemouth raised £70m, so if we do it it’s not a fire sale it’s the norm.
The problem is that it will definitely be a buyers market due to loss of revenues due to Covid, this will hinder our outgoings but should help us secure new players at good value.
It terms of outgoings Berge is obvious, Stevens if we can move him on to create space for RND.
Then either Baldock or Egan, but hopefully not both.
Upfront is a bit more difficult. We all think Mousset will go but I can’t see us getting a fee as it’s more likely than not he will receive a custodial sentence for his actions in the car accident, so who would be willing to buy him?
Didzy and Billy have no value due to their age and we wouldn’t get much for Burke, so if we still need to raise significant funds I would say McBurnie is our only saleable asset upfront, unless that is we take a huge loss on Brewster which is highly unlikely.
I can see it dragging on all Summer unfortunately, buying clubs will wait for sellers to become desperate to secure the lowest prices they can.
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Copy cat
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
Great counter argument.
Any reasoning aside from your gut feel given Matt took the effort to answer you with at least some supporting evidence to support his view?
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I'm not condoning ATL Recs approach but his point is valid. Egan is 28 and there are significant question marks over his ability with the ball at his feet and his pace. That would, I'd argue, limit his options when leaving us to sides either playing 3 at the back or who are less focussed on possession.

In the last two seasons, these are the centre half transfers in the PL of players between 22 and 29 moving under contract. We can exclude Aké and Maguire owing to the identity of the purchasing club (Egan is nowhere near CL standard). For me, the closest examples are Dawson (£5.5m) and possibly Llorente (£18m), although the latter is far better with the ball.

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Realistically, we're looking at either one of the promoted sides or towards the bottom of the PL: Burnley, Newcastle or Palace. None of them is paying £20m for a 28 year old centre half.

IMHO if we're offered £12-£15m we should take that.
 
Balham Blade said:
I'm not condoning ATL Recs approach but his point is valid. Egan is 28 and there are significant question marks over his ability with the ball at his feet and his pace. That would, I'd argue, limit his options when leaving us to sides either playing 3 at the back or who are less focussed on possession.

In the last two seasons, these are the centre half transfers in the PL of players between 22 and 29 moving under contract. We can exclude Aké and Maguire owing to the identity of the purchasing club (Egan is nowhere near CL standard). For me, the closest examples are Dawson (£5.5m) and possibly Llorente (£18m), although the latter is far better with the ball.

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Realistically, we're looking at either one of the promoted sides or towards the bottom of the PL: Burnley, Newcastle or Palace. None of them is paying £20m for a 28 year old centre half.

IMHO if we're offered £12-£15m we should take that.
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Yeah other point i forgot to mention is his fairly slow turning berth. Been on the wrong side of several yellows (and a couple of reds) because of it since we've been up
 
we still shouldnt be selling egan for anything less than 15m imo anything less and he stays for me even if he would be the highest paid at the club at championship level he would be in the top 6 centre backs in the division
 
£15m maximum in my opinion. I can see Burnley taking him as a replacement for Tarkowski. Palace and Newcastle would probably be interested based on their squads.

Baldock is in a similar boat to Egan. Late twenties, proved he can hold his own at Prem level. With Bogle pushing to take his place, I think he'll look to move on. £7m ish based on him signing a long term contract earlier this season.
 
blades78 said:
£15m maximum in my opinion. I can see Burnley taking him as a replacement for Tarkowski. Palace and Newcastle would probably be interested based on their squads.

Baldock is in a similar boat to Egan. Late twenties, proved he can hold his own at Prem level. With Bogle pushing to take his place, I think he'll look to move on. £7m ish based on him signing a long term contract earlier this season.
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i would say more like 10m for baldock but i think he might stay and if we play 433 can see bogle coming in on the right side of midfield
 
I'd say there are a few saleable assets where you could lose a handful and still be a big hitter in the Championship.

All being well, you lose 2 big clubs in Derby and Wednesday plus Wycombe. You lose 2 parachute clubs in Norwich, Watford and possibly the third in Bournemouth or maybe a Brentford. They are going to be replaced by Fulham who will lose several loan players and WBA who will lose in all likelihood their manager plus the January loanees. Coming up hopefully you get a Hull, Peterborough and a Lincoln or Blackpool.

That would put United in a very decent position resource wise. No Leeds or Norwich like last time. Likely rivals relegated teams plus Warnock's Boro plus Swansea, Brentford, Reading who could all lose a couple. Barnsley may end up selling a few and regrouping.

Anyway, I still think we can offload if we are not too brutal.

Ramsdale - 15-25m
Egan - 15-20m
Baldock 10-15m
Berge 25-35m

Rammers could be seen latterly as doing well and still has the U21 gloves. Egan I think will have admirers and will be our top earner. Baldock, I can see someone like Burnley replacing Bardsley with him. Berge has been heavily linked. Could be anywhere from 65-95m depending on the market depending whether you are optimistic or pessimistic.

Replacements I can imagine may include some oversees players and for all we know, Van Winkle may have a good eye. Chris didn't really give us a chance to see. He only picked Verrips in one game and he's done exceptionally well at Emmen. Berge, he's effectively tried to play him in not his proper position. Retsos and Zivkovic were not giving any significant game time. The former out of position in the cup at Reading, the latter reduced to cameos.

I'm not as au fait with foreign players as some, so you'd be looking at something like this and holding a few loan options if needed, if the keeping department presented opportunity e.g. Woodman on loan if Verrips didn't impress in preseason for instance:

G(2) Verrips, Foderingham
D(10) Bogle, Seriki, Basham, Gordon, McNair, Cooper, O'Connell, Robinson, Stevens, Norrington-Davies
M(6) Coulibaly, Wallace, Norwood, Fleck, Osborn, Freeman/Mowett
F(6) Sharp, McGoldrick, McBurnie, Brewster, Burke, N'Diaye

Paddy McNair at Boro and could cover CB, RCB and DM. Reckon he'd be available for 6m. He'd be able to step in for a few before you had to turn to the younger lads.

Jake Cooper, almost 6'7" and left footed could come in to replace Egan but also give the flexibility to replace O'Connell. I don't see how Millwall could turn down about 8m.

Jed Wallace would be my new Mark Duffy and is in the last year of his contract so 8m, a combined 16m would be difficult for Millwall to turn down.

Anyone not listed let go, sell or let go or release.

I think next year could still be a decent one if we have a bit of structure to how we amend the squad.

UTB
 
Champagneblade said:
Berge has been heavily linked. Could be anywhere from 65-95m depending on the market depending whether you are optimistic or pessimistic.
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Did you mean to put the 5s in that price? £6-9 million for me would maybe a bit harsh but if we get back what we paid for in all honesty based on what we have seen and his fitness record we will be lucky to recoup the buying price.
 
Stu_Blade said:
Did you mean to put the 5s in that price? £6-9 million for me would maybe a bit harsh but if we get back what we paid for in all honesty based on what we have seen and his fitness record we will be lucky to recoup the buying price.
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I read it like that at first, but £65 -95m is the running total of all the sales he proposed, not what Berge might get us by himself.
 
Jacobsenthecrab said:
£40m is exactly the average sales that relegated teams have made over the past few seasons so it sounds about right.
Both Watford and Norwich raised this amount last year and Bournemouth raised £70m, so if we do it it’s not a fire sale it’s the norm.
The problem is that it will definitely be a buyers market due to loss of revenues due to Covid, this will hinder our outgoings but should help us secure new players at good value.
It terms of outgoings Berge is obvious, Stevens if we can move him on to create space for RND.
Then either Baldock or Egan, but hopefully not both.
Upfront is a bit more difficult. We all think Mousset will go but I can’t see us getting a fee as it’s more likely than not he will receive a custodial sentence for his actions in the car accident, so who would be willing to buy him?
Didzy and Billy have no value due to their age and we wouldn’t get much for Burke, so if we still need to raise significant funds I would say McBurnie is our only saleable asset upfront, unless that is we take a huge loss on Brewster which is highly unlikely.
I can see it dragging on all Summer unfortunately, buying clubs will wait for sellers to become desperate to secure the lowest prices they can.
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This is correct however those teams gave it a real go for a few years. They weren’t showing £17m profits etc.
They were showing probably £40m losses.
 
The promoted teams and possibly Burnley may well be interested in Egan, Baldock, Fleck I would have thought
Berge will go to a bigger set up, hopefully 30 million, but there is a sell on clause we have to pay
Going to be an interesting summer as the new manager has to re build the squad for next year
 
Stu_Blade said:
Did you mean to put the 5s in that price? £6-9 million for me would maybe a bit harsh but if we get back what we paid for in all honesty based on what we have seen and his fitness record we will be lucky to recoup the buying price.
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He has a bit of an image to him which I can see giving him a higher price. You know, part of the next promising Norwegian generation with Haaland, Odegaard etc. I think a lot of people will buy into that. Plus he was one of our best performers before injury. Not saying much you could argue!
 
So The Athletic are saying weve got to raise £40m
Yorkshire Live are saying we are under no pressure to sell Berge

Conflicting 'stories'
 
Rodley said:
With The Athletic, a fairly sensible source, reporting today that the board told Wilder around £40 million worth of sales would have to be generated in the summer transfer window to make up the revenue shortfall caused by us dropping into the Championship. They also seem to be inferring that those sales are before United look to bring in any signings of our own. I’m presuming from that that further sales will be necessary to generate any transfer funds to fund a rebuild.

Setting aside the above which I find a little troubling, I’d be interested in canvassing views on who we could / would sell to address the shortfall. Effectively these are players we shouldn’t need to replace.

Berge looks a certainty now, brought in for £25m - would we recoup that? £20m perhaps.

We are clearly top heavy in the squad - I would like to keep McBurnie & Brewster as I think they would be outstanding at Champ level with service. Mousset would be moved on for me - £7m would be a reasonable receipt for someone who could potentially do the business at PL level but is damaged goods. I think we’d have to make a judgment between Sharp & McGoldrick, I’d go with the latter.

Apart from that I’m struggling a little - I wouldn’t want to lose Egan as I think he’s critical for us. Perhaps a Baldock or Bogle - £10m?

Not sure how we’ll fund a rebuild. Unless I’m missing some obvious ones?
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Firstly Berge is a £30m player now, definitely won't be taking a loss on the £22m! We spent.

Secondly, Mousset, nobody in their right mind would pay £7m for a totally unfit, disinterested player, who has similarities with one Ravel Morrison, plenty of potential that will never be met!
I personally would send him to Beerschott for the season to sort himself out, and bring Coulibaly the opposite way to balance the squad further.

I'm hoping Ndiaye studies the Duffy/10 role and looks to cement himself into that position.

Back 3 is as you were, Bash, Egan , JOC, with Gordon and RND as cover, but also look to RND to take Stevens position if he continues in his current form. Baldock on the Right as per.

Osborn and Lowe ideal left side cover, Bogle, Seriki same on the right.

Berge, Fleck, Coulibaly, Ndiaye, Freeman, Brunt, provide us depth and options in the middle.

Brewster, Mcburnie, Didzy, Sharp, and look to move young Jebbison up a level, and I'd personally send Burke out or sell him, never understood his arrival, much preferred Robinson, sempt a far better player to me??

Now, the goalkeeping situation........Rammers in goal with Verrips his number 2.
Fodderingham and Moore need to move on, not really any need for them both, we have Eastwood as a reserve afterall.
 

Blacksea said:
When the new managers name is revealed,I'm tipping its going to be the most underwhelming appointment since Robson.
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It's coming,due diligence is just another term for glorified box ticking.
 
Berge a definite sale. I would sell Ramsdale before Egan. Egan is more essential to the team, Ramsdale is still a work in progress and the jury's out on him. I'd be surprised if another Prem team bought him unless it is as back up.
 
Rodley said:
With The Athletic, a fairly sensible source, reporting today that the board told Wilder around £40 million worth of sales would have to be generated in the summer transfer window to make up the revenue shortfall caused by us dropping into the Championship. They also seem to be inferring that those sales are before United look to bring in any signings of our own. I’m presuming from that that further sales will be necessary to generate any transfer funds to fund a rebuild.

Setting aside the above which I find a little troubling, I’d be interested in canvassing views on who we could / would sell to address the shortfall. Effectively these are players we shouldn’t need to replace.

Berge looks a certainty now, brought in for £25m - would we recoup that? £20m perhaps.

We are clearly top heavy in the squad - I would like to keep McBurnie & Brewster as I think they would be outstanding at Champ level with service. Mousset would be moved on for me - £7m would be a reasonable receipt for someone who could potentially do the business at PL level but is damaged goods. I think we’d have to make a judgment between Sharp & McGoldrick, I’d go with the latter.

Apart from that I’m struggling a little - I wouldn’t want to lose Egan as I think he’s critical for us. Perhaps a Baldock or Bogle - £10m?

Not sure how we’ll fund a rebuild. Unless I’m missing some obvious ones?
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Let's just bring this back and see what people are thinking about it now.
 
Was glaringly obvious that it was spot in then, and that it remains the case now.

Only another £14m to find to plug the finance hole, and then any sales after that can fund new purchases.

So….Berge may plug the £14m….depending how desperate we are by the weekend we might be seeing a huge loss on him! Lowe we hope will be sold…someone might Chuck a couple of million at Jebbbison….perhaps Celtic come back for Baldock with a cheeky £2m….we might end up with £5m available to spend in January…you know to keep us in this league!!
 
As the OP states, The Athletic are generally a credible source who are not prone to making stories up, so I’m sure there was some truth in it when it was written and this is sadly being borne out by the lack of activity. I just hope we resist any late, lowball offers for the younger kids, like Jebbison.
 
Presumably loan signings aren't included? Otherwise we wouldn't have signed Davies?
 
If what's happening at the moment (i.e. f*ck all) is any indication, it looks pretty accurate now.
Makes club statements like "we don't need to sell anyone" look pretty stupid.
 
So what's the difference between our parachute payments and the ones that are supposed to give ex PL teams a big advantage over non ex PL teams in the Champ.?
 
BerksBlade said:
If what's happening at the moment (i.e. f*ck all) is any indication, it looks pretty accurate now.
Makes club statements like "we don't need to sell anyone" look pretty stupid.
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A real kick in the teeth ... I was looking forward to this season after last one ... im not so sure now!
 
Blacksea said:
So what's the difference between our parachute payments and the ones that are supposed to give ex PL teams a big advantage over non ex PL teams in the Champ.?
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Seems ours have been diverted, 50m to buy the club from mcabe. 🤔
 

So if we got £24m up front for Ramsdale then we need another £16m?

Don't see how we raise that say if Berge ends up staying put. Otherwise it would mean that we sell multiple of our other players which would be dismantling a large proportion of the squad that would leave us with no time to replace while simultaneously reducing quality (we haven't really got any quality hence being in the bottom 3).

Berge it is that must go then.
 
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