Keep Wilder

[TJ blade]

Its a no from me. I’m bored of his badge slapping, being a ‘proper club’, favouring players who will ‘do a job’, wasting money on naff players, stupid comments about sandwiches, moaning about every decision, no style of play/identity, getting stuffed week in week out.

Wilder is a nostalgic blast from the past. Who has not improved us much since re-taking the reins. We need new ideas and an identity that modernises the club instead of constantly being some plucky, industrious, underdog, up and at them type. Some flair and style would be nice.

Nail on head

 

[ISZA ⚔️]

I’d need to see who the alternatives were before I could vote no. And if I can have even more time then if we get an alternative who then fails miserably I will vote yes.

 

[Snowflake]

I'd like to hear an argument for without someone referring to that he did in the previous promotion season and first season in the Premier League. All I ever read are arguments for based on things he did 5-6 years ago.

I'd like to read some arguments for based on the present, not the past. What has he done in the last year or two to convince you that he is the man to stabilise and rebuild this team?

Surely we should be judging him on what he does over the next 6 months, not the past and not the present.

 

[AWetFlannel]

A manager who fucked off.

So you're bitter then. Fair enough, each to their own.

Regarding my example, the comparison is the long spell of success, followed by a few years of failure. If you're determined to not take the point because Carlo has done it at a higher level, that's a shame. I'll be sure to find a manager who exactly parallels Wilder, down to his shoe size, before I chip in again.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Surely we should be judging him on what he does over the next 6 months, not the past and not the present.

Everyone, chuck your CV’s in the bin……

 

[Sean Thornton]

So you're bitter then. Fair enough, each to their own.

Regarding my example, the comparison is the long spell of success, followed by a few years of failure. If you're determined to not take the point because Carlo has done it at a higher level, that's a shame. I'll be sure to find a manager who exactly parallels Wilder, down to his shoe size, before I chip in again.

What a fucking childish response. Bitter?

Jesus.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Surely every manager is desperate to succeed, not just Blades supporting bosses.

Of course all managers want to succeed but their desperation to succeed depends on their managerial trajectory and age.

Two current managers that have experienced extreme highs that are now in "last chance saloon" are Chris Wilder and Wayne Rooney.
Surely with the prospect of never being a manager again at a decent level facing them ensures 110% commitment.

Think Wilder is 58, if he struggles in the early stages of next season, he might never get a job again in football, reputational damage leading to early retirement. Same with Wayne Rooney, if he's not careful he could become a laughing stock, a total failure, suppose he doesn't need the money though.

As mentioned earlier, if we have the chance of a top manager, someone obviously better than Wilder then sometimes you have to act whilst the opportunity is there, so in those circumstances I'm OK with a change and this time we wont be paying out much compo to Wilder either.

 

[PrestwichBlade]

We’ve got no players. Get rid of the manager & we’ve kind of got nothing other than a football pitch

We've not even got one of those at the minute to be fair

 

[AWetFlannel]

What a fucking childish response. Bitter?

Jesus.

What else is there to take from "a manager who fucked off", given its lack of relevance to the point being debated?

It's your way of saying, "whether or not he's the right man for the job, he fucked off out the back door, 4mill blah blah blah so I don't want to hear it!"

 

[Danetheblade]

What else is there to take from "a manager who fucked off", given its lack of relevance to the point being debated?

It's your way of saying, "whether or not he's the right man for the job, he fucked off out the back door, 4mill blah blah blah so I don't want to hear it!"

He isn’t the right man for the job. He literally assembled a team in the premier league, had an amazing first season, proceeded to spunk money down the drain on absolute shit. Realised he’s fucked up, slagged everyone off bar himself then left via the fire exit.

Left United - got sacked with boro in the relegation zone (carrick came and pushed on) went to Watford - “it’s not my fault, players are x y z”

Yesterdays man.

 

[Sean Thornton]

What else is there to take from "a manager who fucked off", given its lack of relevance to the point being debated?

It's your way of saying, "whether or not he's the right man for the job, he fucked off out the back door, 4mill blah blah blah so I don't want to hear it!"

l say what l want to say, don’t need an idiot to tell me what they want to portray l mean.

Bitter. Grow up. Ancelotti

 

[Jim Mcdonald]

Not for me, he’s a contradictory piss head so he is. His comments are embarrassing at times so they are, the one about at least we didn’t cheat in the Premyer league.

Have you seen next season table Chris, coz I have so I have.

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

I don’t think there’s many Unitedites who travel home and away who want wilder out next season. That’s not me having a go at people who don’t go at all, just my observation at games. It’s only ever on this forum that I see such a surge for wanting him out. The pigs also seem to ask about wilder’s return with big grins on their face, I think they’d be much more relaxed if he wasn’t our manager.

I agree that this forum is not representative

It seems 50-50 on here for Wilder, at best

In reality, I'd guess its more like 60-40 in favour of giving him the chance to sort things out

A poor start to the season would reverse that pretty quickly though

 

[Sean Thornton]

Of course all managers want to succeed but their desperation to succeed depends on their managerial trajectory and age.

Two current managers that have experienced extreme highs that are now in "last chance saloon" are Chris Wilder and Wayne Rooney.
Surely with the prospect of never being a manager again at a decent level facing them ensures 110% commitment.

Think Wilder is 58, if he struggles in the early stages of next season, he might never get a job again in football, reputational damage leading to early retirement. Same with Wayne Rooney, if he's not careful he could become a laughing stock, a total failure, suppose he doesn't need the money though.

As mentioned earlier, if we have the chance of a top manager, someone obviously better than Wilder then sometimes you have to act whilst the opportunity is there, so in those circumstances I'm OK with a change and this time we wont be paying out much compo to Wilder either.

There’s no 110%. It’s a fallacy used to make a point. As you say, all managers will give 100%. It’s what they do. Pretending they can give more because they’re desperate is nonsense.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I agree that this forum is not representative

It seems 50-50 on here for Wilder, at best

In reality, I'd guess its more like 60-40 in favour of giving him the chance to sort things out

A poor start to the season would reverse that pretty quickly though

I think that’s pretty much the truth, majority for him. I posted yesterday that his previous years up until PL2 were legendary . My word. Now, because l don’t believe he’s the man for the job based on what’s happened since PL1 l’m bitter and hate him. Laughable.

 

[steve26272]

Plenty of managers have guff on their CVs and end up doing a decent job. Plenty of managers have what looks like the perfect CV and do terrible job (Adkins). Ancelotti went to Everton and failed, I'm sure Real Madrid are happy they didn't dismiss him based on that.

Er, well he didn’t did he

So you’re saying a bloke with 20 major trophies who finished 12 & 10th at Everton is the reason we should stick with Wilder?

Took over when they were just outside relegation……..
Ancelotti departs after an 18-month stay at Goodison Park during which he guided the Blues to respective 12th and 10th-placed finishes. The 61-year-old Italian achieved the highest points-per-match ratio, 1.53, of any Everton manager in the Premier League era.

 

[steve26272]

Surely we should be judging him on what he does over the next 6 months, not the past and not the present.

Ideally yes, but this is such an important period, reshape the team, formation?

Can we afford to be 11th at Xmas then bring someone in who hasn’t picked the squad he has to work with?

Or is it better to be brave, look at trends and go on the front foot?

I didn’t expect CW to keep us up, but he made very little improvement to PH stats - Hecky lost his job, why should wilder keep his?

 

[SUFCinks]

Ideally yes, but this is such an important period, reshape the team, formation?

Can we afford to be 11th at Xmas then bring someone in who hasn’t picked the squad he has to work with?

Or is it better to be brave, look at trends and go on the front foot?

I didn’t expect CW to keep us up, but he made very little improvement to PH stats - Hecky lost his job, why should wilder keep his?

This is a very important point. The amount of resource and contracts tied up with allowing Wilder to have a go for 6 months will be huge as so many new faces are needed.

If we scrap him we are then left with a squad full of potentially average players on long contracts that we can’t shift. This next transfer window will shape us for the next couple of years.

This obviously applies for whoever we have in charge. With Wilders track record though signing quality tends to be secondary to players who fit his work ethic of getting stuck in. Which isn’t a great long term strategy to make money or challenge at the top level.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Er, well he didn’t did he

So you’re saying a bloke with 20 major trophies who finished 12 & 10th at Everton is the reason we should stick with Wilder?

Took over when they were just outside relegation……..
Ancelotti departs after an 18-month stay at Goodison Park during which he guided the Blues to respective 12th and 10th-placed finishes. The 61-year-old Italian achieved the highest points-per-match ratio, 1.53, of any Everton manager in the Premier League era.

I'm saying that a manager having a couple of bad years doesn't necessarily mean they're washed up. I don't know whether or not Wilder will succeed, I was just trying to make that point.

After Ancelotti's first season they spent absolutely shit loads with the intention of pushing for Europe. They had a strong start and then finished nowhere close. It was disappointing.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

He isn’t the right man for the job. He literally assembled a team in the premier league, had an amazing first season, proceeded to spunk money down the drain on absolute shit. Realised he’s fucked up, slagged everyone off bar himself then left via the fire exit.

Left United - got sacked with boro in the relegation zone (carrick came and pushed on) went to Watford - “it’s not my fault, players are x y z”

Yesterdays man.

He didn't assemble a team in the Premier League though did he? Our main 11 that season was:

Henderson (was on loan the previous season)
Baldock (already here)
Basham (already here)
Egan (already here)
O'Connell (already here)
Stevens (already here)
Lundstram (already here)
Norwood (already here)
Fleck (already here)
McGoldrick (already here)
McBurnie (new signing)

*** Mousset (news signing)

In the majority of games only McBurnie was a new signing, or McBurnie and Mousset, arguably Lundstram as he barely played in the promotion season.

Wilder didn't build a team, he built a squad, and the majority of his squad players were poor and made little to no impact, hence why they couldn't command a starting place and were sold/released at the end of the season.

His faith in his team and failure to replace the first team is half the reason we were relegated the following season. When his favourite players lost form he had no one to turn to as the majority his signings were inferior squad players and not first teamers.

In no way, shape or form did he assemble a team in our first season back in the Premier League as at least 10 of the regular starters were already here. Just about every team in the Premier League had strengthened their first teams with 2 or 3 players, we strengthened our bench and even then it wasn't strong.

 

[Snowflake]

Everyone, chuck your CV’s in the bin……

CVs lead to the job. Whether you are good enough relates to performance.

 

[Snowflake]

Ideally yes, but this is such an important period, reshape the team, formation?

Can we afford to be 11th at Xmas then bring someone in who hasn’t picked the squad he has to work with?

Or is it better to be brave, look at trends and go on the front foot?

I didn’t expect CW to keep us up, but he made very little improvement to PH stats - Hecky lost his job, why should wilder keep his?

The real question is whether he will do a better job than someone else who would wish to come here.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

He didn't assemble a team in the Premier League though did he? Our main 11 that season was:

Henderson (was on loan the previous season)
Baldock (already here)
Basham (already here)
Egan (already here)
O'Connell (already here)
Stevens (already here)
Lundstram (already here)
Norwood (already here)
Fleck (already here)
McGoldrick (already here)
McBurnie (new signing)

*** Mousset (news signing)

In the majority of games only McBurnie was a new signing, or McBurnie and Mousset, arguably Lundstram as he barely played in the promotion season.

Wilder didn't build a team, he built a squad, and the majority of his squad players were poor and made little to no impact, hence why they couldn't command a starting place and were sold/released at the end of the season.

His faith in his team and failure to replace the first team is half the reason we were relegated the following season. When his favourite players lost form he had no one to turn to as the majority his signings were inferior squad players and not first teamers.

In no way, shape or form did he assemble a team in our first season back in the Premier League as at least 10 of the regular starters were already here. Just about every team in the Premier League had strengthened their first teams with 2 or 3 players, we strengthened our bench and even then it wasn't strong.

To be fair the squad he built over two years was much better than the shite we built this summer.

People give Wilder stick but for me he had one bad summer and if you actually look at that summer of the second season it was only Brewster that was the expensive flop. Not every signing works out.

Apart from that have his signings been that bad?

All the big signings we made were Ramsdale (sold for profit), Berge (helped us gain promotion), McBurnie (decent first season & helped us gain promotion), Mousset (decent first season).

Ones that didn’t work out were the cheap squad fillers - Rodwell, Ravel, Restos (loan) and that striker (loan) - Callum Robinson & Freeman we hoped to be better but we were all pretty pleased when they signed, they just didn’t suit our style.

I actually don’t think he’s been too bad at signing players. There’s absolutely no chance he had anything to do with Grbic before that one gets thrown in.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

To be fair the squad he built over two years was much better than the shite we built this summer.

People give Wilder stick but for me he had one bad summer and if you actually look at that summer of the second season it was only Brewster that was the expensive flop. Not every signing works out.

Apart from that have his signings been that bad?

All the big signings we made were Ramsdale (sold for profit), Berge (helped us gain promotion), McBurnie (decent first season & helped us gain promotion), Mousset (decent first season).

Ones that didn’t work out were the cheap squad fillers - Rodwell, Ravel, Restos (loan) and that striker (loan) - Callum Robinson & Freeman we hoped to be better but we were all pretty pleased when they signed, they just didn’t suit our style.

I actually don’t think he’s been too bad at signing players. There’s absolutely no chance he had anything to do with Grbic before that one gets thrown in.

If the players didn't suit our style then wjy sign them? You charge your system to fit those players in and play to their strengths, you don't sign players and then ask them to play a foreign role. That's poor management.

You don't sign Paul Scholes then ask him to sit deep in front of the back four all game and play like Nicky Butt .

Square pegs in round holes is a recipe for disaster. If you lose players to injury then change your system to suit what you have available. Slav was guilty of this then changed to a formation and tactics that suited what he had and we started to play well and win.

 

[AWetFlannel]

If the players didn't suit our style then wjy sign them? You charge your system to fit those players in and play to their strengths, you don't sign players and then ask them to play a foreign role. That's poor management.

You don't sign Paul Scholes then ask him to sit deep in front of the back four all game and play like Nicky Butt .

Square pegs in round holes is a recipe for disaster. If you lose players to injury then change your system to suit what you have available. Slav was guilty of this then changed to a formation and tactics that suited what he had and we started to play well and win.

Is Pep a poor manager for signing Gvardiol and playing him as a left back? Or telling Akanji to play as a midfielder out of possession? Sometimes you sign players with the hope that you can coach them to do things they haven't ordinarily done. It's worked with those two, he's failed with Phillips, it happens.

Didn't really work with Robinson despite the fact that it was often brilliant performances from others that kept him out, so it's a flop. But let's not pretend that to have a go is inherently bad management.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

If the players didn't suit our style then wjy sign them? You charge your system to fit those players in and play to their strengths, you don't sign players and then ask them to play a foreign role. That's poor management.

You don't sign Paul Scholes then ask him to sit deep in front of the back four all game and play like Nicky Butt .

Square pegs in round holes is a recipe for disaster. If you lose players to injury then change your system to suit what you have available. Slav was guilty of this then changed to a formation and tactics that suited what he had and we started to play well and win.

On paper didn’t they? We all felt Freeman was the perfect fit for a Duffy type replacement. We changed to a flat 3 but we still needed that option which he gave us. I for one thought he was the perfect player for that role.

Robinson just couldn’t play in a 2. He had an unreal preseason and then lost all confidence by game 4/5. It can happen.

The reason Wilder gets stick about signings is because of Brewster. Nobody else. All the other signings either worked out or were bought at a nominal fee for a Premiership average.

If the debate is how Wilder has had his day then I think anyone has a point with that because it could be the case, but for me he’s signed some absolute legends of the club.

 

[Yewsman]

For me it’s Wilders recruitment record that is the issue. Yes upto the time we got promoted to PL in 2019 it was great. Signed some great players on very reasonable fees or freebies-JOC, Egan, Baldock, Didsy, Lundstram, Leon, Fleck, Enda, Duffy, Norwood Jake Wright. Also some odd ones too - Holmes, carruthers, Hussey, Wilson (CB) Leonard, Evans. Then we got promoted to the PL and he then seemed to lose the knack of signing players from lower clubs at small fees but who were able to step up. Over paid for McB, was Berge a clever signing at the price we paid?, Freeman, Callum Robinson, Mousett (a completely flawed character) , Brewster, Lowe, to name a few.
Has he learned hie lesson? You would have hoped so but then he signs Grbic for 2 or 3 million on a 3 year contract!! What the hell was he doing?
I know CW was not responsible for last seasons signings but again these were a disaster. Until we can sort our recruitment system/department we have no chance. I know that Mitchell has gone but presumably Wilder will have input or the final say and frankly I just don’t trust him to assemble a team/squad to give us a chance in the Championship.

 

[originaltrueblade]

Question is do prospective new owners want him

 

[Andy67]

A manager who fucked off.

Ancelotti, look at his career. Superb with every club. Couple of bad seasons, then back to Real Madrid and success. Not success in lower leagues then one good PL season and a shite one, then outed at Boro, did little at Watford and couldn’t coach defending on his return. And you use Ancelotti as a comparison? Jesus Christ.

Couple of Everton fans I know would kill Dyche if it meant they’d get Ancelotti back.

 

[Andy67]

Er, well he didn’t did he

So you’re saying a bloke with 20 major trophies who finished 12 & 10th at Everton is the reason we should stick with Wilder?

Took over when they were just outside relegation……..
Ancelotti departs after an 18-month stay at Goodison Park during which he guided the Blues to respective 12th and 10th-placed finishes. The 61-year-old Italian achieved the highest points-per-match ratio, 1.53, of any Everton manager in the Premier League era.

He even made Holgate into a good player.