Wilder OUT - megathread

[ben1987]

I agree to a point. I don't think Wilder has spent millions on transfer fees though. His signings have often been free transfers like Campbell, Bamford, Jairo, McCullam, COH. Where's these millions you're talking about? On Cooper and Burrows? They've been excellent, although Burrows has faded but still a great buy.

Wilder didn't buy any of of last summers players who cost millions. The likes of Rothwell, Jairo, Bamford have been signed in 1 year deals or 18 months in the case of Rothwell. They're here to do a job this season. It's clearly a reset and the board have decided or needed the best players to go. Presumably that's Wilders fault too.

The part on other teams sign players with potential sounds valid. Until you realise that these other teams haven't sold all their best players in one window. And the likes of Norwich, Swansea and West Brom, Stoke too have spent some serious cash this summer. I dont hear their managers saying we're signing free transfers!

Do our fans seriously think Wilder's saying to the board, no I don't want to sign young permanent players, let me sign free transfers over 30 please.

Some of if the stuff on here is incredibly critical and unjustified.

It’s not just this spell, his recruitment has been extreamly poor for years now. At least 100m of his signings have walked out the door for free or at a big loss to the club due to either their own poor performance, the clubs poor performance (which is down to him in large part) or the clubs poor contact management which I accept is not on wilder.

What have we had to show for the likes of Brewster, McBurnie, Robinson, Egan, Freeman, Berge etc. millions walking out the door for free or at a loss. This is the kind of money we will never get back.

Yes 2 seasons ago we finished on 90 points. He did a commendable job assembling the squad and grinding results out after an awful relegation. He ruined it and threw it away after Christmas. Capitulated. - he sees two key players get injured in Souttar and Arblaster. Replaces Souttar with Holding, refuses to play him presumably because he’s signed someone who’s barely kicked a ball for 3 years, sticks with Robinson who gets skinned at Wembley for the equaliser. Wastes £10m on cannon who doesn’t fit his “style” of play and a massive loan fee on a washed up BBD to play him out of position and leave out the likes of JRS and Andre Brooks.

And yes, I firmly believe he’s chosen to sign over 30 year old players who’ve had their heyday, because he literally said at the end of last season he wanted to sign a load of experience.

These frees and loans are not free! They will be commanding massive wages, loan fees and agent fees which will probably be more than comparable to signing a young upcoming player out of league one or Europe permanently. He’s done that by choice.

 

[KMC-1889]

No not really .

If the brief is to stay out of trouble , its may be a while before thats the case , if at all .

All I'm saying is whats more likely than less likely , not whats right or wrong .

The brief isn't to stay out of trouble. We have a wage budget of a top half club and are putting out relegation performances masked by some fluked wins.

 

[Booker4]

I’ve always been fairly pragmatic about Wilder across his 2nd and 3rd spells, he’s neither the messiah nor a disaster.

My issue here is he talks about trusting the squad, being a good group, culture etc etc. From this you’d expect the full squad to be pulling in the same direction.

Then every year we seem to have a cup tie, where we change it up and squad players come in - seemingly aren’t arsed and do their own thing. It’s one thing to talk a good game, but it falls down when reality hits. Granted players can have off days and that isn’t necessarily on the manager, but when there is a pattern of this and no signs of improvement it’s on CW.

The players he talks about are one assumes Jairo, Campbell, RND, Rothwell, Doherty all who have been signed or had contracts extended by Wilder.

Dont think we are going down, but we are on course for a nothing season.

He needs a few wins on the board, or quickly it will become pretty toxic and ultimately he will be in an untenable position.

That's the most sensible of posts I've read on the note critical side. In terms of the signings part though.

Free transfers are usually players to do a short term job, or sct as cover. You're not going to get the divisions better players on free transfers as a rule. Yes players run down their contract because they want to move on to better things but that type of player is usually in demand.

RND was flying when he was offered his long term deal. Then he got injuries that have ruined his career. Rothwell, Jairo, Doherty are here to do a relatively short term job, I.e to the end of this season. I doubt any of those will stay beyond next summer.

We may not like these signings. They may be unimaginative. They may not even do the job they were brought into do. But the budget is low, the clubs clearly in a total mess. Cant our fans see this! I'll stop now as I know I'm repeating myself but nothing has changed from the mess we're in.

 

[Paul Stancliffes Dog]

I’m all for getting rid of Wilder but don’t appoint Hecky again. I can’t believe people are suggesting him as the replacement.

Would not wish us on Hecky. Few out there with the right experience - Coboran, Edwards, Cooper, Parker, Challinor or thinking outside the box John Terry or Ashley Cole. .

 

[NerdyBlade]

Im not even going to answer that other than to say If you can't see why Wilder deserves to stay on after everything he's done well at for us, and the mess we're in, not of his making, then you obviously see this very different to me. Each to his own, we're all entitled to an opinion.

"Everything he's done for us" so we're keeping him based off 2019?

I've got a 10 year old phone, its crap and the screen is falling off but I got a compliment about it 10 years ago so I'll keep it

How is the mess not of his making too?!? Who's telling him to play 442 every week?

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

A lot of people are enjoying this moment

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

I’m conflicted about this debate. There’s lots of reasons the season is turning into a tram crash. The owners shenanigans are part of it, the new rules another but at the same time Wilder has been part of it too.
While he may be working on a relatively small budget he’s done this successfully before but just seems devoid of ideas and worse the ability to get the absolute best out of the players at his disposal.
It’s true that there are teams in the league spending big but there also teams currently above us whose budget and spending power is much lower. Think back to the first Wilder teams, how much did they cost? Next to nowt and yet they were better than the sum of their parts. He or the club more generally seem to have lost the ability to find and gel those types of players. I do think that our apparent inability to explore other markets outside of the U.K. and Ireland holds us back too. Is that the club or Wilder?
Every manager has a self life, even Sir Alex did. I think the current version of Wilder is a shadow of version one. On reflection the decision after the play off defeat may have been right just the replacement chosen wrong.
Stoke feels huge. If we’re abject again the away fans who let’s face it are the most loyal and most likely to back him turn he’s surely goosed.
If so maybe someone like Challinor would fancy the challenge

 

[Booker4]

It’s not just this spell, his recruitment has been extreamly poor for years now. At least 100m of his signings have walked out the door for free or at a big loss to the club due to either their own poor performance, the clubs poor performance (which is down to him in large part) or the clubs poor contact management which I accept is not on wilder.

What have we had to show for the likes of Brewster, McBurnie, Robinson, Egan, Freeman, Berge etc. millions walking out the door for free or at a loss. This is the kind of money we will never get back.

Yes 2 seasons ago we finished on 90 points. He did a commendable job assembling the squad and grinding results out after an awful relegation. He ruined it and threw it away after Christmas. Capitulated. - he sees two key players get injured in Souttar and Arblaster. Replaces Souttar with Holding, refuses to play him presumably because he’s signed someone who’s barely kicked a ball for 3 years, sticks with Robinson who gets skinned at Wembley for the equaliser. Wastes £10m on cannon who doesn’t fit his “style” of play and a massive loan fee on a washed up BBD to play him out of position and leave out the likes of JRS and Andre Brooks.

And yes, I firmly believe he’s chosen to sign over 30 year old players who’ve had their heyday, because he literally said at the end of last season he wanted to sign a load of experience.

These frees and loans are not free! They will be commanding massive wages, loan fees and agent fees which will probably be more than comparable to signing a young upcoming player out of league one or Europe permanently. He’s done that by choice.

I dont agree with most of what you've said. .

It wasn't Wilder who signed Cannon by all accounts but the board and McBurnie and Berge chose to leave, just like Ndiaye wanted to leave under Hecky. Egan would have been on big money and was out injured for a year and going into the next season with said injury when he was released but nobody knows whether that was Wilders choice, Egan's, mutual, the board having their say.

Freeman got injured a fair bit. He cost relatively little. We wanted Matty Cash and Ollie Watkins but they chose Villa because they're a bigger club and would have been offered more money. We also wanted Antonee Robinson but he chose Fulham. Think how much of a difference these three would have made. Instead we bought Brewster who'd just done superbly on loan for Liverpool. He was awful granted but had some serious injuries.

Wilder has made this club millions based on getting us to the PL from league One and within a hairs breath at Wembley had if not been for awful play by Moore and VARs intervention.

Blame it all on Wilder though, yes that's right.

 

[blade_ben]

The owners don’t coach the players. Another manager would get this squad performing better

So very well put Baz.
Very on point.
We are VERY much stuck in this division.
For now.
With a VERY real chance we'll exit it, but not in the direction we want.
Simply because of our owners, not Wilder.

 

[Booker4]

"Everything he's done for us" so we're keeping him based off 2019?

I've got a 10 year old phone, its crap and the screen is falling off but I got a compliment about it 10 years ago so I'll keep it

How is the mess not of his making too?!? Who's telling him to play 442 every week?

I agree 442 isn't working. He wants two strikers up top and that allows for that. Last season we mainly played 4231. We had O'Hare though then.

 

[NerdyBlade]

I agree 442 isn't working. He wants two strikers up top and that allows for that. Last season we mainly played 4231. We had O'Hare though then.

Right, he wants 442 but that clearly isn't working - yet he refuses to change and play to what we have

That's the sign of a manager we should keep?

 

[NerdyBlade]

I dont agree with most of what you've said. .

It wasn't Wilder who signed Cannon by all accounts but the board and McBurnie and Berge chose to leave, just like Ndiaye wanted to leave under Hecky. Egan would have been on big money and was out injured for a year and going into the next season with said injury when he was released but nobody knows whether that was Wilders choice, Egan's, mutual, the board having their say.

Freeman got injured a fair bit. He cost relatively little. We wanted Matty Cash and Ollie Watkins but they chose Villa because they're a bigger club and would have been offered more money. We also wanted Antonee Robinson but he chose Fulham. Think how much of a difference these three would have made. Instead we bought Brewster who'd just done superbly on loan for Liverpool. He was awful granted but had some serious injuries.

Wilder has made this club millions based on getting us to the PL from league One and within a hairs breath at Wembley had if not been for awful play by Moore and VARs intervention.

Blame it all on Wilder though, yes that's right.

PA wanted Brewster on loan, Wilder didn't - he forced a Perm signing.

For every "we wanted Matty Cash", there's also a "we signed Ravel Morisson, Jack Rodwell, Shackleton, Choudry, Goode, Grbic" ect

Wilder has been more of a failure than a success when jt comes to transfers

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

I dont agree with most of what you've said. .

It wasn't Wilder who signed Cannon by all accounts but the board and McBurnie and Berge chose to leave, just like Ndiaye wanted to leave under Hecky. Egan would have been on big money and was out injured for a year and going into the next season with said injury when he was released but nobody knows whether that was Wilders choice, Egan's, mutual, the board having their say.

Freeman got injured a fair bit. He cost relatively little. We wanted Matty Cash and Ollie Watkins but they chose Villa because they're a bigger club and would have been offered more money. We also wanted Antonee Robinson but he chose Fulham. Think how much of a difference these three would have made. Instead we bought Brewster who'd just done superbly on loan for Liverpool. He was awful granted but had some serious injuries.

Wilder has made this club millions based on getting us to the PL from league One and within a hairs breath at Wembley had if not been for awful play by Moore and VARs intervention.

Blame it all on Wilder though, yes that's right.

I get what you’re saying but at the same time you can’t let him have all the plaudits for what he achieved under difficult circumstances in the past but give him a free pass for now. I’m neither a Wilder fanboy nor an anti Wilder, I’m a Sheffield United fan. I couldn’t care less about who the manager is as long as he provides a team that at the very least holds my interest and keeps me willing to spend my hard earned cash on following them.
I really truly believe that if he wasn’t “one of our own” no one on here would be cutting him any slack at all. I’d be delighted if he can turn it around obviously but do I believe that he can? I’m really not sure anymore.

 

[ben1987]

I dont agree with most of what you've said. .

It wasn't Wilder who signed Cannon by all accounts but the board and McBurnie and Berge chose to leave, just like Ndiaye wanted to leave under Hecky. Egan would have been on big money and was out injured for a year and going into the next season with said injury when he was released but nobody knows whether that was Wilders choice, Egan's, mutual, the board having their say.

Freeman got injured a fair bit. He cost relatively little. We wanted Matty Cash and Ollie Watkins but they chose Villa because they're a bigger club and would have been offered more money. We also wanted Antonee Robinson but he chose Fulham. Think how much of a difference these three would have made. Instead we bought Brewster who'd just done superbly on loan for Liverpool. He was awful granted but had some serious injuries.

Wilder has made this club millions based on getting us to the PL from league One and within a hairs breath at Wembley had if not been for awful play by Moore and VARs intervention.

Blame it all on Wilder though, yes that's right.

We’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree because I cannot agree with anyone who thinks he’s got it in him to turn it around anymore.

Most of these players are his signings now. The famous wilder pre-season which was to sort out all our fitness issues has done nothing to correct our lack of fitness or athleticism.

He continuously gets it tactically wrong, can’t settle on a system and we are very fortunate to have picked up any points so far except maybe the point at Swansea. We’ve been second best in every other game.

He WAS the best manager we’ve had in my lifetime but this version of Wilder shows no signs of being able to regain his mojo. Infact he’s showing more signs that he’s going to repeat what he did at Watford and Boro as when it started going wrong for him at both of those clubs he hung the players out to dry and washed his hands of any responsibility and he’s making those moves now.

 

[sufc323]

It's got to the point that I can't even be arsed to defend him when rival fans pop up and have a dig at him. I find myself nodding in agreement about their comments.

 

[The Fox]

The brief isn't to stay out of trouble. We have a wage budget of a top half club and are putting out relegation performances masked by some fluked wins.

We do have a top half budget but think thats a trade off for having loans and short term contracts rather than risking transfer fees . Most of the squad wont be here in 12 months so its a bit like getting some contractors to do a job rather than invest in full time employees.

Non of of really know the stratergy and like everyone all we can do is join the dots.

My own assessment is this season is simply buying time.

 

[alcoblade]

Doherty isn't far behind and justifying why Wilder went and got Hamza......

....who isn't far behind either.

 

[ben1987]

....who isn't far behind either.

Unless it’s a winger he’s behind, then he’s fucking miles off

 

[Iffy Onuora's Shiny Head]

2 wins at home since we beat Wendy. How much longer does he need?

This is a crazy stat. So by the time we play Lincoln it will be 2 home wins in 8 months in the league

 

[alcoblade]

That's the most sensible of posts I've read on the note critical side. In terms of the signings part though.

Free transfers are usually players to do a short term job, or sct as cover. You're not going to get the divisions better players on free transfers as a rule. Yes players run down their contract because they want to move on to better things but that type of player is usually in demand.

RND was flying when he was offered his long term deal. Then he got injuries that have ruined his career. Rothwell, Jairo, Doherty are here to do a relatively short term job, I.e to the end of this season. I doubt any of those will stay beyond next summer.

We may not like these signings. They may be unimaginative. They may not even do the job they were brought into do. But the budget is low, the clubs clearly in a total mess. Cant our fans see this! I'll stop now as I know I'm repeating myself but nothing has changed from the mess we're in.

I'm not sure how signing Choudary on massive wages to replace Doherty on massive wages to cover our short term injured right back doesn't just add to the mess?

One excuse I've heard is that he can play CDM. Where he'd no doubt compete as cover for Philips on massive wages, or Reidewald on massive wages, if our other wealth of CDM's are injured.

 

[Iffy Onuora's Shiny Head]

I feared the worst when he kept saying 'lets get through to the international break'. I don't really get why - for a couple of players returning?

But what kind of marker is that? Basically saying lets try and scrape a few results in the first 8 fixtures

 

[Chris the Blade]

No one who we could get and even if we could it's still the same mess. You can get a better joiner but give him wood that's crap, crap tools and would it be better. I think Wilders record says he's a decent manager. I like Dave Challibor for example. We could probably get him.

However is he going to do better than Wilder? If he starts badly fans are on his back.

I think it's harsh saying my post is clueless because everything I've said re the mess we're in is true.

Fair play. Many apologies. I was fuming last night.

 

[Kenworthy’s Tash]

.

 

[Kenworthy’s Tash]

It would be very interesting to see an updated poll, I suspect the result would be much different now.

 

[brownblade]

There are so many viable candidates.

Available managers: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tra...unkteschnitt=0;3&0=0&3=3&spielklasse=0&plus=0

 

[Jan Age]

We’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree because I cannot agree with anyone who thinks he’s got it in him to turn it around anymore.

Most of these players are his signings now. The famous wilder pre-season which was to sort out all our fitness issues has done nothing to correct our lack of fitness or athleticism.

He continuously gets it tactically wrong, can’t settle on a system and we are very fortunate to have picked up any points so far except maybe the point at Swansea. We’ve been second best in every other game.

He WAS the best manager we’ve had in my lifetime but this version of Wilder shows no signs of being able to regain his mojo. Infact he’s showing more signs that he’s going to repeat what he did at Watford and Boro as when it started going wrong for him at both of those clubs he hung the players out to dry and washed his hands of any responsibility and he’s making those moves now.

Said it before mate …

He’s changed and realised he can’t get a top job and United are the highest level he will get.

Now he’s stuck because he wants the job and desperately doesn’t want sacking …

He no doubt loves the club and is frustrated by the owners but the version of wilder was gone when he said he wouldn’t leave by the back door and then left by the back door …

He’s backed himself in to a corner

He also wants to be loved by the fans but the fans hate the owners so he stuck

And he also loves himself so can’t front up anymore when we lose and he straight down the tunnel

So he can’t blame the owners, can’t blame the fans , won’t blame himself so … who are we left with ?

The next few weeks will be very interesting indeed to watch play out …

But … I would keep him because we are fucked this season either way

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Exactly. There's only so many times you can kick the can down the road with anyone. If you think about It his contract extension is weird anyway: a one year extension on a 25/26 year old. It doesn't scream confidence . It wouldn't surprise me if he has a magical resurgence next season just as we're prepared to offload and we get nothing for our 20 goal, contract rebel marksman .

If they don't find the money for quality permanents we're fucked anyway. It's a matter of time. We're doing the whole trying to resist gravity in iron boots thing at the minute. There's only so long that'll work.

Absolutely. This strategy only works if we've got a bevvy of young exciting kids waiting in the wings. One aside, I'm not sure we have anyone of that profile.

As I've said on another thread, I'd have a lot more patience for Wilder/this OAP strategy if we had the likes of Curtis/Marsh/Baptiste in the XI but we don't. We've sent Curtis on loan and opted for Doherty and Choudhury instead. We've sent Marsh out and paid In assuming good money to. Riedeweld...

Makes no sense.

 

[Champagneblade]

We do have a top half budget but think thats a trade off for having loans and short term contracts rather than risking transfer fees . Most of the squad wont be here in 12 months so its a bit like getting some contractors to do a job rather than invest in full time employees.

Non of of really know the stratergy and like everyone all we can do is join the dots.

My own assessment is this season is simply buying time.

The strength of the squad is relatively deep.

You can list out 26 players yet Oné and Donovan are the only remaining players 21 or under.

Come end of the season and I don’t see why we would need Ayew, Campbell, Chong, Rothwell, Riedewald, Choudhury, Shackleton, Doherty, Davies.

That’s more than a third of the squad you simply would not miss if they didn’t offer a body to the overall critical mass.

What wages is that little lot tying up?

Shackleton is a fine example of a player who should never have come in the door; small, injury prone, average when fit. I mean, what attracted us to him? He had a small spell under Bielsa once a few years back?

 

[Kenworthy’s Tash]

What Wilder said he would do:




What Wilder has done:

Confidence restored

He a fraud.

 

[Barnette]

Every day he remains as manager is a wasted day for the Club. It is simply postponing the inevitable.