Whats Cloughs problem

[ThatJa]

...with certain players? Collins not had a look in this season (now would be a good time to let him back into the team imo) and then there was Butler and Diego, yet Brayford and Ben Davies can do no wrong in Cloughs eyes.......

Favourisitm won't end well in this game.

 

[LSF]

I'd say most people are like that towards fellow humans. Some you like, some you don't ....

 

[Gavlar]

...with certain players? Collins not had a look in this season (now would be a good time to let him back into the team imo) and then there was Butler and Diego, yet Brayford and Ben Davies can do no wrong in Cloughs eyes.......

Favourisitm won't end well in this game.

Davies has been left out for ages hasn't he? Or was he injured?

In fairness its the same with all managers really, they all have favourites. But its strange that he bought Butler never really played him and then bombed him out. I don't have a great problem with Collins being dropped as long as Kennedy gets a game instead.

 

[wizadry]

I'd say most people are like that towards fellow humans. Some you like, some you don't ....

Can't disagree with this, but sometimes you have to learn that you can be wrong, accept it and rectify it to the best of your ability.

 

[itsinyerblood]

I cannot begin to understand why Clough would value a player like Brayford? For christ's sake, surely this sort of blind loyalty can't be based on anything even vaguely close to the ability to judge a player on his merits, could it?

 

[bartman]

...with certain players? Collins not had a look in this season (now would be a good time to let him back into the team imo) and then there was Butler and Diego, yet Brayford and Ben Davies can do no wrong in Cloughs eyes.......

Favourisitm won't end well in this game.

Who do you think Collins,Diego and Butler would replace ? Up to the other week,most fans wanted 2 out of Kennedy Basham and McEverley. Are you saying Butler and Collins are better than these? As for Diego? Would you play him in front of fans favourite McNulty ? (he doesn't play the same role as Higdon)

As for Ben Davies,he was on the bench before his lengthy injury and when fully fit,must be in contention for a start every week. As for Brayford,he has played two games..and NC critisised him on Saturday after the game.

Stick to making up rumours...they are more entertaining

 

[Blade82]

To be fair to clough it worked for him last season. His stubbornness is a massive problem though.

 

[Foxy]

The same Davies that plenty of people claimed Clough had fell out with when he was out of the squad injured?

 

[bartman]

To be fair to clough it worked for him last season. His stubbornness is a massive problem though.

What stubborness is this then ?

 

[Blade82]

Butler, Collins, mcnulty, Diego and the persistence with his preferred formation. The Bradford signing too even, Flynn was doing well there and with Alcock and Davies as cover he could have done something better with the money in my opinion.

 

[bartman]

Butler, Collins, mcnulty, Diego and the persistence with his preferred formation. The Bradford signing too even, Flynn was doing well there and with Alcock and Davies as cover he could have done something better with the money in my opinion.

most managers have a preferred formation and stick to it. I can't recall Bassett changing much from 4-4-2 or Warnock for that matter(until the Premier League)

So he is classed as stubborn because he doesn't pick certain players . Doesn't that mean every manager is stubborn ?

All because he doesn't pick some players that a few fans think he should pick is not being stubborn. However,are you really saying that Collins,Butler and Diego are better than what we have now and that McNulty currently deserves a starting place ?

 

[Blade82]

Warnock change it. Went 4-5-1 away sometimes and I remember him going 4-3-3 at home to pigs in the promotion season with kabba, Webber and ships.

He hasnt pick his best XI it seems at times and made an example of mcnulty earlier on in the season.

We've had players he's signed as fullbacks play at centre half when Collins and butler were better options. He stuck with mcgahey when surely butler or Collins were better options? He wanted them both out and to punish or to try and force it he picked a weaker option, which does not benefit the team. He's done the same with Diego because he's chosen not to accept the contract offered.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Butler, Collins, mcnulty, Diego and the persistence with his preferred formation. The Bradford signing too even, Flynn was doing well there and with Alcock and Davies as cover he could have done something better with the money in my opinion.

Who did we sign from Bradford???

 

[davidpinder]

What's brayford and Davies done wrong? Collins was shit pre season Clough wasn't happy end of, butler didn't fit in it happens and many say Diegos attitude stinks. Clough has his strange ways I'll give him that but none of the above players have been treated unfair or been given special treatment you have to earn that shirt on a Saturday not expect it.

 

[Blade82]

Not enough of them after seeing them recently. Did they play 2 up top today.....

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Warnock change it. Went 4-5-1 away sometimes and I remember him going 4-3-3 at home to pigs in the promotion season with kabba, Webber and ships.

He hasnt pick his best XI it seems at times and made an example of mcnulty earlier on in the season.

We've had players he's signed as fullbacks play at centre half when Collins and butler were better options. He stuck with mcgahey when surely butler or Collins were better options? He wanted them both out and to punish or to try and force it he picked a weaker option, which does not benefit the team. He's done the same with Diego because he's chosen not to accept the contract offered.

We haven't seen Brayford, Courtts, Freeman, Holt and Done in the same team yet.

Surely you only bring in what is better than you have?

 

[Blade82]

We haven't seen Brayford, Courtts, Freeman, Holt and Done in the same team yet.

Surely you only bring in what is better than you have?

And will we ever? Freeman is a rb, so unless he plays him or Brayford out of position we won't see them together. (Then again with cllough we probably will)

I don't believe he does sign better than what we have. He goes for similar players who can all do a similar job so we're left with no standout players, just players who can slot in when called upon. Quantity over quality so far.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

And will we ever? Freeman is a rb, so unless he plays him or Brayford out of position we won't see them together. (Then again with cllough we probably will)

I don't believe he does sign better than what we have. He goes for similar players who can all do a similar job so we're left with no standout players, just players who can slot in when called upon. Quantity over quality so far.

Point I'm trying to make is we have played one league game since the JTW and we haven't seen all the signings yet.

 

[Blade82]

Point I'm trying to make is we have played one league game since the JTW and we haven't seen all the signings yet.

A fair point but they don't scream out as game changes to our season. Hope they are but it needs to happen soon. He has no excuses and needs to understand that fortune favours the brave.

 

[Blade56]

Add Baxter and Scougal to the can do no wrong list.

 

[SwissBlade]

Can't disagree with this, but sometimes you have to learn that you can be wrong, accept it and rectify it to the best of your ability.

Which he's done with players, he's brought several players back in from the cold.

 

[Blade82]

Add Baxter and Scougal to the can do no wrong list.

He's an idealist mate. It should work so I'm sticking with it.

 

[Blade56]

He's an idealist mate. It should work so I'm sticking with it.

As some posted on another thread, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

[wizadry]

Which he's done with players, he's brought several players back in from the cold.

I wasn't generally talking about players exactly, but while we're on the subject, who are the ones you're talking about mate?

 

[SwissBlade]

I wasn't generally talking about players exactly, but while we're on the subject, who are the ones you're talking about mate?

Murphy, Flynn and Porter stand out from last season. Diego and Connor Dimaio have both been away from first team and brought back into the fold recently

 

[wizadry]

Murphy, Flynn and Porter stand out from last season. Diego and Connor Dimaio have both been away from first team and brought back into the fold recently

These players were never out of Cloughs' plans though. He never outed them and then brought them back, infact Porter has now gone. The players in mention have never been frozen out of the squad apart from Porter and then got back into his plans. When you're frozen out there's no going back it looks like to me.

 

[Bladesman]

Butler, Collins, mcnulty, Diego and the persistence with his preferred formation. The Bradford signing too even, Flynn was doing well there and with Alcock and Davies as cover he could have done something better with the money in my opinion.

Ring ring. Flynn is injured.

Although as for Butler he fell out with Clough as soon as he arrived and I think he was partly the reason Clough fell out with Collins as well. I think both of them were expecting the captains armband.

I would be open to trying Collins again since he has not secured a move in the JTW unless he is going out on loan instead. Realisticly I doubt there is anyway back for him as Clough said a while ago he was looking to move him on.

 

[SwissBlade]

These players were never out of Cloughs' plans though. He never outed them and then brought them back, infact Porter has now gone. The players in mention have never been frozen out of the squad apart from Porter and then got back into his plans. When you're frozen out there's no going back it looks like to me.

But i think you're assuming that it was Cloughs fault that, in the cases of Butler and Collins that they ended up out of the side. I'll through Febian Brandy into that as well...

None of us here know what went on with Collins and Butler, but as always i'll take it at face value (like i have done with Diego) until we get something concrete

I was also very surprised, after what went off with Freeman's transfer in the summer, that he then ended up back at the lane. So again it shows that he's not stubborn enough to burn bridges as some suggest.

Sometimes, as it was mentioned above, things don't work out.

 

[wizadry]

But i think you're assuming that it was Cloughs fault that, in the cases of Butler and Collins that they ended up out of the side. I'll through Febian Brandy into that as well...

None of us here know what went on with Collins and Butler, but as always i'll take it at face value (like i have done with Diego) until we get something concrete

I was also very surprised, after what went off with Freeman's transfer in the summer, that he then ended up back at the lane. So again it shows that he's not stubborn enough to burn bridges as some suggest.

Sometimes, as it was mentioned above, things don't work out.

I don't think that the Butler and Collins episodes was all Cloughs fault or even partly his fault, where do i suggest anything of the kind?

Lets get back to the start here. My initial post was a statement in general to life as a whole and at no point did i mention players been frozen out then coming back in favour. Murphy has never been frozen out by Clough. Flynn has never been frozen out by Clough. Porter has been frozen out and funnily enough has since moved on. So the statement i first made which read "sometimes you have to learn that you can be wrong, accept it and rectify it to the best of your ability" has no relevance to these players, because at no point did he have to rectify anything with Murphy or Flynn as there was nothing to correct in the first place as he never froze them two out.

 

[SwissBlade]

I don't think that the Butler and Collins episodes was all Cloughs fault or even partly his fault, where do i suggest anything of the kind?

Lets get back to the start here. My initial post was a statement in general to life as a whole and at no point did i mention players been frozen out then coming back in favour. Murphy has never been frozen out by Clough. Flynn has never been frozen out by Clough. Porter has been frozen out and funnily enough has since moved on. So the statement i first made which read "sometimes you have to learn that you can be wrong, accept it and rectify it to the best of your ability" has no relevance to these players, because at no point did he have to rectify anything with Murphy or Flynn as there was nothing to correct in the first place as he never froze them two out.

Ok initially I missunderstood the intent of your post.

The latter part, I didn't say that they were frozen out by Clough, but they were frozen out previously and he's brought them back into the fold