Video on sky sports football app - our owner talking about Wilder's departure

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derekacorah said:
You don't have to be a Wilder fan to question what is being said by Abdullah. Some of it he makes fair points on, others are just a smear campaign against a manager who has served him well.



The concept of a football manager's CV is laughable. If his next club want to know what he did in his job at the Blades they don't need to read his CV to find out. 4 good seasons, 1 shit one.



If people believe Jim Phipps or this Wit bloke then more fool them. Neither will give a balanced view. I wouldn't trust Abdullah as far as I could throw him though.



All of the above plus more I'm sure. Ultimately a breakdown in relations between Abdullah and Wilder leading for both parties to move on, But Abdullah has now put the concept of Wilder resigning into the public sphere and the "Chris is a mardy bastard" brigade will lap it up. If he's been paid off he's not resigned.
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They came to a mutual agreement on a negotiated settlement. Seems that way anyway.
 
Blade58 said:
Chrissy Wilder......................so good he resigned twice

Actually it's about time we heard from the owner. Sheds some light on the situation. We now need to hear what CW has to say now and then as fans we can all pick which side to back and hammer the other one :D

After the frustrations at the time of his "resignation" I've calmed down a bit and taking a more balanced view
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Great - if that is what happens.
So far it seems that so many fans have already decided which/whose side they are on.
Until this video I have heard so very little from the club yet vast amounts from people (ITK) about what really happened and how CW was faultless.
Never ever believed that anyway.
 
Bashamed said:
Ye I just don't begrudge him in the slightest getting a big pay off. People making out like he's set for life anyway. He's worked in league 2 or below all his career until he came to us. League 1 and championship I very much doubt we were one of the highest paying clubs for a manager. Probably actually about bottom in the first years. He's given us 2 seasons in the Premier league with all the money that goes with it. More than entitled to try to get the pay off.
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On a salary of £4m pa I would argue he is very well set up for life.
 
Glad we've heard that side in full. However, I think there ARE two sides and there will very likely be some counter points to some of the stuff here. So I am still on the fence, I wish CW was still here, but I see the points on both sides.

But from hearing that they wanted to keep him regardless of results I'll refer back to a comment I posted in the days after Wilders departure
ZoneManWilf said:
The truth is somewhere in-between, there is no doubt both sides need to take some blame. I am just so disappointed that between the 2 parties and all the negotiations taking place over these weeks they couldn't take a step back look at where we'd got too, accept what's happened, accept the budget that's available (and the risk in chucking a load of money on loan signings when we all realistically knew we were down), and tried to move forward. I think all parties involved in those talks would agree Chris would have been the best man for the job next year. Compromise - doesn't happen in football these days.
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CW is clearly a bad loser - probably a good attribute in a football manager, and he has huge drive to win and succeed as we'd seen for the prior 4 years, I had never seen a United team so driven and focused and where each player had to take responsibility, including in use of the ball.

So this period with no fans, bad results and no answers to turn it round has clearly been tough on him and he's not taken it well. There has been a lot less straight talking from him, players seem to have gone into their shell in terms of confidence on the ball (see the ultra defensive displays this season versus the early stuff from last season where we were here to have a proper go and take everyone on - like Spurs away where we strung 20-odd passes all over the field before scoring). That confidence has all gone - was this a factor with management or players or most probably both?

He will also have to accept some responsibility in the recruitment stakes. We've spent a lot of money since we've got up and look at the state of the squad - injuries notwithstanding, we've hardly improved the first team from the promoted one.

So those were faults of his - but we as fans were in the main willing to accept that and go again, and the board were too, but it feels like he'd just had enough and wasn't able to push on again. I think he's knackered, and I wish he'd taken more time to reflect on our journey, accept some elements had gone badly wrong and reset and go again, rather than looking for an exit. That why I'm still so sad about it, I think most of us accept what's happened and wanted the old combative Chris back to try and tear the Championship a new one next year.

FFS 😢

One other thing I will take is that PA is a proper football fan and comes across very knowledgeable and passionate, I couldn't help but think about the contrast with the baffled indifference you get from a certain Thai gentleman across the city.
 
Bladeinleeds said:
no doubt we aren’t paying competitive salaries.

that said the return from

Robinson
Freeman
Mousset
Brewster
Mcburnie

have all been negligible. Do we make any of those again in hindsight

even ramsdale to to be fair to him has shown character and started to play well - you’d argue 20m is ALOT.

berge has done ok but again for 22m - you’d want to have seen more from him.

I don’t think the recruitment has really been good enough by any stretch, so slagging the board off at every opportunity when he’s had 120m - was never going to go down well. And probably neither was refusing to take any direction on recruitment (albeit I admit wilders record probably affords him that right).
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"Not his record on recruitment" - that has been poor.
 
Carlton Blade said:
He can't be a dick to an owner who doesn't do exactly what he wants. His press conference digs this year will have effected his employability. Rich people don't like their employees publicly complaining
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Not sure that it is something unique to "rich" people.
I think the rest of what you say is spot on.
 

Maidenhead said:
Complete bollocks.

When I left my job with a bank having put them in a prominent place in my local market place and having made them a lot of money in the process not only did I not ask for a payoff but I had to sell up and down size my property to fund living expenses for myself and my family.

I'm not complaining about any of the above, they were all part of the choice that I made having fallen out of love with the business and having some real issues with my senior line management.

I can just picture the look on my manager's face if I'd asked for a good pay off to fund my decision.

If you decide to walk then you have to be willing to pay the price. Why on earth should anyone else subsidise you, least of all the employer you are walking away from?
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He was on a fixed term contract. If he’d been poached at the end of last season, the club would have been entitled to compensation. So, it works both ways. If you signed a contract with a builder to do works for you, changed your mind later, then there is a potential claim against you for loss of profit. It’s a similar principle. It’s well established in football that managers get paid off if they leave before the end of the contract, the fact that it’s different to us is neither here nor there. Plenty of chief execs get paid off, even where there’s an argument that they underperformed. I’ve never been paid off because I’m too low down the food chain. Similarly, had I left to go to another company, my former employers wouldn’t receive compensation because I was on a “standard” employment contract, not tied in for a set period (apart from my notice).
I bet Clough and Adkins also got paid off.
 
Just listened to the full interview now, trying to see the views from both sides:

  • Announcing that Wilder is on more than £50k a week and the ins and outs of his contract is really unprofessional.
  • The concern about the resignation and his approach to come and see Wilder face to face showed a willingness to go the extra mile to sort the situation out.
  • Good honesty from Abdullah to take Wilder to task on the issues he wasn't happy with, this is obviously where the relationship broke down though.
  • Bettis seems to be a bit of a middleman and probably doesn't deserve some of the stick he gets.
  • Further proof that the relationship had broken down by using Giansuruca in the next round of talks with Wilder.
  • Sounds to me a lot like it wasn't a resignation, Wilder's agent asking for compensation is not the move of someone who has resigned. I still believe he was pushed reading between the lines.
  • Further evidence of the breakdown of relationship with the lack of trust on transfers going forward.
  • Refers to the poor start made by Wilder and the 'worst start'.
  • Says that Wilder was leaking to the media but pretends he's not accusing him of doing so.
  • He sounds very adamant on the wages, if he's right then WIlder was being disingenuous in his interviews regarding wages.
  • Criticising recruitment seems to be a bit 'after the horse has bolted', surely he has the final say in this respect?!
  • Poor behaviour on Wilder's behalf if he's only looked at Brewster and Ramsdale, it's obvious that the transfer policy is something that Wilder wouldn't budge on, to his and the clubs' detriment.
  • The comment "I would not say a bad word about Chris but" says it all about this interview to me.
  • Pulled the plug on transfers because he didn't agree with Wilder's plans ultimately, that's pretty much constructive dismissal in my view.
  • Wilder resigned because he'd lost the dressing room apparently.
  • Further admissions that their relationship was broken, resorting to letters via representatives isn't a great position to be in.
  • Using the word 'resigned' about a million times, is this true or have they just shifted blame?
  • Nothing going to be done with the manager until the end of the season.
  • Glad he's looking to get us straight back to the PL, but doesn't really elaborate.
  • Didn't commit on his long term future.

Overall he's put his side of the story forward and many people will take it as gospel. I'd like to hear the other side before I start making a voodoo doll of Wilder and sticking pins in it.
 
One of the main points for me was Wilder switching targets in January and wanting a defensive midfielder.

Aye because a team that was devoid of any creativity or chance creation really needed another DM to sit in that flat three.

Admirable from HRH to refuse.

Decent interview, in 29:31 he managed to counter act and shut down the last 6 months of moaning Wilder and his mate on Twitter did every week.

Thanks for the memories CW but goodbye.
 
Also fair play to United for putting the video out through official channels not just on sky.
 
ZoneManWilf said:
Glad we've heard that side in full. However, I think there ARE two sides and there will very likely be some counter points to some of the stuff here. So I am still on the fence, I wish CW was still here, but I see the points on both sides.

But from hearing that they wanted to keep him regardless of results I'll refer back to a comment I posted in the days after Wilders departure


CW is clearly a bad loser - probably a good attribute in a football manager, and he has huge drive to win and succeed as we'd seen for the prior 4 years, I had never seen a United team so driven and focused and where each player had to take responsibility, including in use of the ball.

So this period with no fans, bad results and no answers to turn it round has clearly been tough on him and he's not taken it well. There has been a lot less straight talking from him, players seem to have gone into their shell in terms of confidence on the ball (see the ultra defensive displays this season versus the early stuff from last season where we were here to have a proper go and take everyone on - like Spurs away where we strung 20-odd passes all over the field before scoring). That confidence has all gone - was this a factor with management or players or most probably both?

He will also have to accept some responsibility in the recruitment stakes. We've spent a lot of money since we've got up and look at the state of the squad - injuries notwithstanding, we've hardly improved the first team from the promoted one.

So those were faults of his - but we as fans were in the main willing to accept that and go again, and the board were too, but it feels like he'd just had enough and wasn't able to push on again. I think he's knackered, and I wish he'd taken more time to reflect on our journey, accept some elements had gone badly wrong and reset and go again, rather than looking for an exit. That why I'm still so sad about it, I think most of us accept what's happened and wanted the old combative Chris back to try and tear the Championship a new one next year.

FFS 😢

One other thing I will take is that PA is a proper football fan and comes across very knowledgeable and passionate, I couldn't help but think about the contrast with the baffled indifference you get from a certain Thai gentleman across the city.
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Really good post. Sums it up for me. Equally sad/frustrated/disappointed that Chris didn’t walk out the front door as he had promised and take us into a new campaign in the Championship. Can you imagine the support of a packed Bramall Lane with a Wilder led team running out for the first game? I’m sure the support will hold up, I share your view and wish the Board and Wilder could have found a way to do the same
 
derekacorah said:
Yep, so he's not resigned. He's been paid off.

No one in the world is putting a clause in a contract that says 'if you walk we pay you something'. So if we've paid him something he's not walked.
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I’d imagine the truth lies somewhere in the constructive dismissal realm wilder hands in his resignation but his representatives made that argument his position was made untenable.
 
Chingo said:
If it’s not true surely someone as well off as wilder would forgo the nda money to put the record straight... wouldn’t they ?
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Why would they? Give up his settlement (and whatever penalties were tied in with the NDA) to give a few fans on a forum his version? They don't want it anyway.

And as to his original point, and as has been true all along, a load of our supporters seem set in taking anything PA says as "the truth". While it might be his truth, and most definitely the version which paints him in the best light, using it as something to "set the record straight" is dubious at best.

Listen to a few on here and it's easy to understand how the country ended up in such a mess.
 
derekacorah said:
Yep, so he's not resigned. He's been paid off.

No one in the world is putting a clause in a contract that says 'if you walk we pay you something'. So if we've paid him something he's not walked.
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He's accepted a reduced settlement
 
Cassius Kray said:
If anyone can't watch the full interview here's a rough transcript:

General intro
Believes that replacing a manager is the most expensive thing a club can do. Even if the manager is only average you should avoid replacing them.
Generally believes that recruitment should be owned by the club, not the manager because the club has a longer term view. However, made an exception for Wilder.

Recognised Wilder's success at the club and did three things:
  • Offered him a new contract last year on very good terms (substantially more than £2.5m a year)(later on it's suggested it was almost £4m a year)
  • Contract had a £50m breakout clause if Wilder wanted to go to another club
  • Offered Wilder 1% ownership of 'United World' if he kept us in the PL for five years

Southampton
In December 'Steven' (presumably Bettis) told the Prince Wilder was thinking about resigning
Met Wilder in person before Soton game. Told him:
He wouldn't be fired regardless of results for the rest of the season, thought he was the best man to get us back up.
He wanted to speak at the end of the season about recruitment because it could have been done better.
Raised concern with some of Wilder's comments to the media ("I can't make cake out of sand" and "I only have Championship players to work with"). Concerned that these comments hurt the club's image with sponsors.
"I'm ok with Chris taking all the credit when we win, but please take some responsibility when we lose".
Also talked about January transfer window (detail about this later).
Felt the conversation with Wilder had gone well.

Palace
After Palace match 'Steven' calls Prince, says Wilder wants to leave again.
Felt disappointed about this.
Says he felt conflicted about having backed Wilder's transfer policy with its significant net outlays. "We recruited the way Chris wanted to recruit"
Didn't want to speak to Wilder at this time, the Vice-Chairman spoke to him instead on the phone.
Wilder explained why he wanted to resign - "There was no talk about a Director of Football, or a leaking roof at the training ground" - Wilder just felt the team needed change and a new voice (adds a bit later this was the sole reason - he hadn't been tapped up etc, just thought he'd done everything he could).
There was a conversation about compensation and it was made clear to Wilder the club didn't want to fire him and he wouldn't get the same compensation if he resigned.
Wilder's representatives then e-mailed asking for a £4m payoff.
Club made it clear they wouldn't pay £4m. Prince also wanted to delay on making a decision hoping results may improve/Wilder may change his mind. Also suggests that the club didn't have a plan for if Wilder were to resign because it was a shock.
Some other people on the board felt strongly that Wilder was abandoning the club.
Prince still hoped Wilder would stay. However he felt there had been a breach of trust, and was reflecting on whether if he could risk backing Wilder significantly in the summer if he might just turn around and threaten to quit again.
"I don't blame him from resigning.. I'm sure the pressure is not easy"

Wages
"I would never accuse Chris of leaking things to the media. He is a person of integrity. Maybe some of the people around him..."
Wages: "We have players above £40k, around £50k"
Besic, Ampadu, Brewster, Ramsdale, Mousset all got either the same wage or an increase from their previous PL salary. None of them are the highest paid player.

Transfers
Feels that Brewster and Ramsdale will turn out to be very good signings, but worried that we needed more plays with an immediate impact.
Says the board suggested some 'reasonably valued' players who are having great seasons in the PL/Germany, that were not signed.
Felt the transfer strategy was limited in terms of target market.
Wanted Wilder in the future to suggest options rather than demand a single player - justifies this saying this puts you in a weaker negotiating position.
Wasn't happy Wilder talked about Brewster before we signed him.
"When it comes to recruitment it can't be my way or the highway every time"
"Chris did wonderful things for the club, but when it comes to recruitment we have to be more flexible".

January Transfer Window
"How could I sign players when I didn't know if the coach would be there in a few weeks?"
Felt we had a very poor January window last year (for those not keeping track we signed Rodwell, Robinson and Berge)
Felt there was very little chance we would stay up, so buying players wasn't necessarily wise.
Wilder was asking for a defensive midfielder, Prince felt what was needed was someone who could create chances.

Wilder leaving
Shortly before he left Wilder requested a meeting with the board.
Three zoom video calls were scheduled.
"We told him we wanted him to be the coach next year. But we told him some of the things we did not like". "I thought the call went very well".
After that Wilder's agent said he didn't want to participate in the subsequent meetings. "I was shocked".
Wilder turned up to the second meeting, said he didn't want to talk and would send a letter outlining the things he was unhappy about.
(There's a bit here where it seems the Prince is going to go into detail about what he felt were unreasonable demands, but he pulls back and instead says he has great respect and gratitude for Wilder).
This letter included things like the complaint about the leaking roof.
Price says it's ridiculous to suggest these were things that weren't going to be resolved, suggests Covid and short pre-season were behind some delays.
Seems clear Prince felt the letter & Wilder's approach at this time was very disrespectful.
After this communication broke down.
"We replied to Chris' letter with a letter. I think Chris didn't like the tone of the letter"
Wilder then insisted on resigning again and the board felt it was in the best interests of the club due to the breakdown in the relationship.

What happens next?
Priority to get back to the PL.
All options are open
"Will look at how we end the season"
Expect to sign someone who will be involved in recruitment "but we have to learn from our mistakes"
Some players have minimum fee release clauses in their contracts
"If we sell a player we'll bring in a replacement" but looking to keep the core team
Click to expand...
Prince doesn't know anything about football though apperantly...
 
derekacorah said:
Yep, so he's not resigned. He's been paid off.

No one in the world is putting a clause in a contract that says 'if you walk we pay you something'. So if we've paid him something he's not walked.
Click to expand...

Legally he hasn’t, but the idea for him to leave seemed to have been instigated by Wilder. The reasons for him doing so, we still don’t really know. Looks to have become a mutual consent job to benefit both parties.

Whether people believe the Prince or not, I think it’s clear that he felt like Wilder was still the man to take us forward.
 

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