Outgoing? Ricky Holmes

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Akinbiyi said:
Ahhhhh, wish it was that easy for me. I get sucked into the trap all the time.
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Know how you feel, and its worse when you have personal experiences, but replying to them won't achieve or educate them, some don't want to listen, especially on forums - too easy to be a parody type poster.
 
HeCanDoMagic said:
Know how you feel, and its worse when you have personal experiences, but replying to them won't achieve or educate them, some don't want to listen, especially on forums - too easy to be a parody type poster.
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Fortunately I've never suffered but I know people that have, and one of them that did was a very successful bloke with his own company, money coming out of his arse and a villa in the Algarve, husband and dad.

The stigma around it is neanderthal-ish. Very weird.

If you speak to footballers or ex-pros they'll say aside from the money it can be a very isolated and sad existance. Especially if you're at the other end of the country from your family and injured.
Ryan Cresswell (ex Blade) talks very poignantly about depression in his Undr the Cosh podcast. Was a depressed alcoholic at Eastleigh.
 
Akinbiyi said:
My opinion is that I value mental health a lot higher than you do
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Well that's fair enough. Total bullshit imo, but fair enough. I happen to value MH very highly actually. But still its good to know that someone who doesnt know me from Adam seems to know all about me and what my values are.

Imo (and we are entitled to one it seems), you spend alot of the time talking out of your arse.

Ive a very long and busy day on my schedule tomorrow. Make sure that your about on here so that you can put an arm around my shoulder if i start to moan a bit about my shit day ;) Mental Health and all that....

Oh and bring your pal HCDM too. He seems a nice lad.
 
Weasel said:
Well that's fair enough. Total bullshit imo, but fair enough. I happen to value MH very highly actually. But still its good to know that someone who doesnt know me from Adam seems to know all about me and what my values are.
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You could've fooled anyone on this forum.
 
Akinbiyi said:
You could've fooled anyone on this forum.
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Didnt know i was trying to fool anyone tbh.

Maybe only the simple one's didnt understand my original point.

By the way, shouldnt you be on RHs twitter account making sure he's happy again now?
 
JackSUFC said:


At Millwall’s game today. Hopefully he’s going there permanently and we get some sort of fee for him.
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Will probably be a nominal fee or a free - still a decent place to offload him, might do well there.
 
There’s probably not a bad player in there somewhere- but he wasn’t right for our system at all.

No where near the control on the ball that Duffy has or what was required to play behind the front two in our system.

I’m sure someone will benefit from some long ranger goals if he can get fit and firing
 
This is Wilder’s Dean Hammond/Martyn Woolford tbh, though with a more prolonged hunt for their signature and likely more cash spent on him for the fee and wages.

As with Adkins, you can excuse punts on players not coming off because their character or suitability isn’t what they seemed before you got to work with them, but where it’s a player you know well because you’ve worked with them before it does look far worse when they turn out to be useless. Let’s just put this down as a bit of a weird and unique misstep though.
 
I’m going to take a punt and suggest Holmes is the player that Wilder said post-Bournemouth “in particular” should have got himself a new club by now and who he’d “looked after” in the past. Clarke and Wright have been clearly still part of the group at least to train and play in friendlies, Heneghan has clearly been linked strongly with moves and is expected to be loaned out. Carruthers has been training with Cambridge and that move’s still expected to happen (presumably we’re negotiating settling his remaining earnings for this season with what Cambridge can feasibly cover).

Holmes though, no links, no training with other clubs, no involvement with our preseason. Seems the obvious target for Wilder’s annoyance.
 

Grizzly blade said:
Don’t get me wrong here, I’m a huge Wilder fan, think he’s done a top top job at United and hope he will be with us for many years yet.
Our own Brian Clough in some ways.

However...what the actual fuck was the point of this signing?
He was completely dreadful nearly the whole time he was here and we tracked him and chased him like we have with Hogan!
A man completely out of his depth.
He’s at his level that’s for sure
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Ah, the benefit of hindsight.....i recall a much earlier interview that wilder mentioned the signing players. Sometimes, he mentioned, no mater how much you thought a player might fit it just doesn't work, for club or player. We've not had many of these, so the percentage of failed signings isn't high. It happens everywhere, look at Pogba at Man Utd. Maybe not a failure, but with his price tag I think the expectation would have been far higher, don't you? So we got off lightly with Holmes and Leonard......them's the risks you take in pursuing players.
 
itsinyerblood said:
So we got off lightly with Holmes and Leonard......them's the risks you take in pursuing players.
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Can’t really put the two in the same bracket. Leonard we quickly moved on, for profit. Holmes in contrast has stuck around and is basically worth nothing – in fact most likely we’ll be paying to get rid of now.

It was a strange decision to bring him in tbh. He didn’t on the face of it seem that much of an upgrade on Carruthers to compete with Duffy, wasn’t in the general category of either being young and likely to improve or experienced at the level recruited to.

Wilder has I think a better record than most of our managers with his transfer deals. But given he’d worked with Holmes before, knew his attributes and character, that should have given extra security on it being likely a good transfer. Instead it goes into the category with the likes of Dean Hammond of weird failures that weren’t worth the trouble we went through to get them in.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
Can’t really put the two in the same bracket. Leonard we quickly moved on, for profit. Holmes in contrast has stuck around and is basically worth nothing – in fact most likely we’ll be paying to get rid of now.

It was a strange decision to bring him in tbh. He didn’t on the face of it seem that much of an upgrade on Carruthers to compete with Duffy, wasn’t in the general category of either being young and likely to improve or experienced at the level recruited to.

Wilder has I think a better record than most of our managers with his transfer deals. But given he’d worked with Holmes before, knew his attributes and character, that should have given extra security on it being likely a good transfer. Instead it goes into the category with the likes of Dean Hammond of weird failures that weren’t worth the trouble we went through to get them in.
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As I said, the benefit of hindsight. Dissecting any move is simple when you choose to look back at what could or couldn't have happened. All managers make mistakes, Wilder will be no difference, but I prefer not to waste too much time wondering what could have happened when we've gone from the bottom of Div 1 to the Prem in 3 seasons, that seems am eminently more worthwhile focus to consider........or do you feel that every signing should be a rip-roaring success?
 
itsinyerblood said:
........or do you feel that every signing should be a rip-roaring success?
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No, I’m just interested that in a period where we’ve had a very clear transfer strategy with the moves we’ve made this failure sits outside the type of player we generally go for, and I wonder whether that contributed to the failure of it. As I’ve said before, failures are inevitable when you look at a manager’s transfers as a whole. Though Carruthers, Leonard and Lee Evans didn’t work out as planned they were at least very much the types of players we have tended to go for with the transfers we’ve made – young, with the potential to improve.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
No, I’m just interested that in a period where we’ve had a very clear transfer strategy with the moves we’ve made this failure sits outside the type of player we generally go for, and I wonder whether that contributed to the failure of it. As I’ve said before, failures are inevitable when you look at a manager’s transfers as a whole. Though Carruthers, Leonard and Lee Evans didn’t work out as planned they were at least very much the types of players we have tended to go for with the transfers we’ve made – young, with the potential to improve.
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Swings and roundabouts, overall it's been a positive.

This might be a case of paralysis by analysis. Currently there are far too many positives to consider, rather than what happened a few years ago. Sorry, I'm not meaning to dismiss your point, but apart from saying we're sorry it didn't work out, what else is there to do than move on?
 
Grizzly blade said:
Just astonished how far off he was with this one. From the moment he arrived he looked like a bloke pulled from the stands desperate to do well but running around aimlessly with no real clue.
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I’m astonished that your astonished.

Think of arguably the 2 greatest managers of all time.
Alex Ferguson bought Eric Djemba-djemba and Brian Clough bought Gary Megson, both total failures.
 
For all the transfers that Paul Mitchell and CW have got right there have been some bizarre stinkers in there as well.....Holmes, Carruthers, Heneghan, Leonard, Thomas, Evans to name a few.
 
Ah, but Wilder is better than them and has access to all sorts of data they didn’t.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
This is Wilder’s Dean Hammond/Martyn Woolford tbh, though with a more prolonged hunt for their signature and likely more cash spent on him for the fee and wages.

As with Adkins, you can excuse punts on players not coming off because their character or suitability isn’t what they seemed before you got to work with them, but where it’s a player you know well because you’ve worked with them before it does look far worse when they turn out to be useless. Let’s just put this down as a bit of a weird and unique misstep though.
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Don’t think this quite on the Hammond scale. We got Hammond on loan first and it was clear to every one except Adkins his legs had gone but we still signed him. Then to add injury to insult it turned out Adkins had given him an option for another year! Crazy.
 
Yewsman said:
Don’t think this quite on the Hammond scale. We got Hammond on loan first and it was clear to every one except Adkins his legs had gone but we still signed him. Then to add injury to insult it turned out Adkins had given him an option for another year! Crazy.
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To be fair, the option was part of the initial loan agreement. Nobody in their right might would have offered an extension based on his performances, not even Adkins!
 
Torrix1889 said:
For all the transfers that Paul Mitchell and CW have got right there have been some bizarre stinkers in there as well.....Holmes, Carruthers, Heneghan, Leonard, Thomas, Evans to name a few.
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Leonard and Evans we made a profit on, can't exactly class them as stinkers.
We will with Henegan too, we paid a nominal fee for him and he's now a proven top drawer L1 defender so expect him to go for more than we paid.

The other 4 I do agree with.
 
The stinkers were Holmes, Thomas and Heneghan. And that little shite James Wilson II.

It was obvious straightaway that none of them would get near the team. They were just 3 'punts'. Which the limited budget dictated.

We won't get our money back on Heneghan because he's into his last year, his suitors would be L1 clubs and they all love to plead poverty.

Lee Evans plugged a gap and did a job. Leonard was useful but left (for a profit) before he had a chance.

Carruthers was a good signing at the time. Great ability at L1 level and could have developed further.

Ched Evans was obviously a special McCase.


I don't think we'll be seeing many stinkers now our budget and choice is so much greater.
 
Akinbiyi said:
Leonard and Evans we made a profit on, can't exactly class them as stinkers.
We will with Henegan too, we paid a nominal fee for him and he's now a proven top drawer L1 defender so expect him to go for more than we paid.

The other 4 I do agree with.
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As far as Leonard is concerned I meant more from the perspective that we chased him for about a year, then played him just 16 times before flogging him 7 months later.....same with Evans really, (although we didn't chase him)….arrived January 2018 and gone 7 months later after 22 apps....

Holmes was even more bizarre, we chased him the summer of promotion from L1 but he turned us down and went to Charlton instead.....we then chased him again when we got promoted and finally signed him in January 2018......5 appearances in the red and white later and he's bombed out to Oxford...

Credit to CW for not being afraid to admit he gets some things wrong but you would have thought that Leonard & Holmes, were watched enough over the time that we courted them to make someone think......hmmmm, hang on a minute, have we got this one right, although granted, some players just don't fit.
 

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