Outgoing? Ricky Holmes

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I think in a lot of cases we have just moved upwards too fast (for them not us) and as these players didn't impress straight away at the outset of their career with us, they have just been left behind
 

The most bizarre thing about the Holmes transfer was that Wilder had managed him before, and whenever he played for us, he looked absolutely fine.

Right player, wrong time. Maybe he fucked a teammates dog.
 
Chris Hussey was probably the worst footballer Wilder ever signed for us.
 
Torrix1889 said:
For all the transfers that Paul Mitchell and CW have got right there have been some bizarre stinkers in there as well.....Holmes, Carruthers, Heneghan, Leonard, Thomas, Evans to name a few.
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I think it's worth a little reflection before calling all failed recruits, 'bizarre stinkers'. Some players just don't work out, it's no more complicated than that. Leonard being an example, not exactly a bad player, just not right for us. Sometimes that's how it is, and it's not worth losing sleep over or over-analysing.
 
itsinyerblood said:
I think it's worth a little reflection before calling all failed recruits, 'bizarre stinkers'. Some players just don't work out, it's no more complicated than that. Leonard being an example, not exactly a bad player, just not right for us. Sometimes that's how it is, and it's not worth losing sleep over or over-analysing.
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I get that some players just don't work out but we courted both Holmes and Leonard for a year at least, surely during that time they were watched enough for their ability to slot into our system to be questioned?
 
Torrix1889 said:
I get that some players just don't work out but we courted both Holmes and Leonard for a year at least, surely during that time they were watched enough for their ability to slot into our system to be questioned?
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And your point might explain that even with the most forensic scrutiny, it's still not possible to guarantee a successful new signing. Playing well in another team might suggest a player's right for us, but until they're out on the pitch we'll never really know. I suppose you look at a player, get excited at the prospect of signing them, but for reasons that are beyond my pay grade, they simply aren't a good fit. The sign of a good manager is to be honest and arrange for the player to move elsewhere. Admitting you got it wrong isn't a crime (not suggesting you said it was), but stubbornly holding onto a signing just because you can't see the wood for the trees is.
 
itsinyerblood said:
And your point might explain that even with the most forensic scrutiny, it's still not possible to guarantee a successful new signing. Playing well in another team might suggest a player's right for us, but until they're out on the pitch we'll never really know. I suppose you look at a player, get excited at the prospect of signing them, but for reasons that are beyond my pay grade, they simply aren't a good fit. The sign of a good manager is to be honest and arrange for the player to move elsewhere. Admitting you got it wrong isn't a crime (not suggesting you said it was), but stubbornly holding onto a signing just because you can't see the wood for the trees is.
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Completely agree and CW is obviously not scared to admit he got it wrong and make changes, it just seems we have been through an awful lot of "maybes" to get round pegs in round holes and in the case of Carruthers, (3.5 years) giving out lengthy contracts!
 
Torrix1889 said:
Completely agree and CW is obviously not scared to admit he got it wrong and make changes, it just seems we have been through an awful lot of "maybes" to get round pegs in round holes and in the case of Carruthers, (3.5 years) giving out lengthy contracts!
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Please don't think I'm an apologist for Wilder, but I tend to think that all supporters live in their own particular bubble, hence their view of life is often jaded or sometimes lacking in all the salient points. Mistakes get made, and no doubt will be made in future. Before Saturday's game the shoutbox went into emotional free-fall in it's condemnation of Lundstram, yet his performance was that of a team player doing what he's been told to do. How quickly some of us forget but are slow to admit we were wrong? My take is that Wilder, while not above criticism, deserves to be given the chance to do things the way he sees fit. After all, his record since being appointed manager isn't too shoddy, is it?
 
Players like Holmes and Leonard were chased for months and didnt really get a chance. Now we got 5 dead wood players picking a good wage up.
 
Most of those mentioned as Wilder failures are pretty unfair I’d say, even Hussey I mean we signed him off the back of a POTY season didn’t we? Some moves just don’t work out..

In my book failed transfers are ones that seem to lack planning and seem to have been made for the sake of it.. I don’t see any of those bar Ched Evans and I don’t think CE can be held responsible for that one

Some players just don’t suit some clubs
 
Wages apart, what have we lost on these lower league players, bought for a low budget club, in lower divisions?
I'm sure the team has been more circumspect now we are spending big money in the PL. Wilder and co will have the sad experience of a few failures, for which he will accept responsibility I'm sure. Once bitten etc.
Go back a bit to the phase where Wilder was building a budget team in the lower divisions. He's still got an eye on the balance sheet, and whatever he asked for this close season, seems to have been granted. I don't suppose he could be sacked for lack of prudence recently, much less be given an improved contract if the Club didn't trust him.
Maybe time to move on and count or blessings. Count Wilder twice, just for being human.
 
Still don’t understand what happened with Ricky Holmes. Wilder not only wanted him, he had played for him before and done really well. I know we have outgrown him, but after Wolves game in which he did OK Chris suddenly started treating him as if he had a nasty and highly contagious disease.
 
itsinyerblood said:
I think it's worth a little reflection before calling all failed recruits, 'bizarre stinkers'. Some players just don't work out, it's no more complicated than that. Leonard being an example, not exactly a bad player, just not right for us. Sometimes that's how it is, and it's not worth losing sleep over or over-analysing.
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Aren't all transfers a 'punt'?
Some are shoe-ins with a high potential success odds and other are more risky. But none come with a 100% guarantee?
The current raft of transfers this preseason are no different.
 
Newbury Blade said:
Still don’t understand what happened with Ricky Holmes. Wilder not only wanted him, he had played for him before and done really well. I know we have outgrown him, but after Wolves game in which he did OK Chris suddenly started treating him as if he had a nasty and highly contagious disease.
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I suspect he didn’t play to instruction. I don’t think Wilder had played 3412 before at his other clubs so whilst he thought Holmes would be able to fit into our style, he was wrong and it didn’t suit him.

Every manager in history has signed players that don’t work out, I’m not sure why it’s such a surprise to people.
 
Th!stledo said:
Aren't all transfers a 'punt'?
Some are shoe-ins with a high potential success odds and other are more risky. But none come with a 100% guarantee?
The current raft of transfers this preseason are no different.
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Just look at both Torres and Shevchenko at Chelsea - both world class players at their previous clubs; couldn’t perform at Chelsea.
 

For what it’s worth I always thought Holmes looked decent and possibly could have been given more of a chance.
 
When you’re working under strict financial constraints you get a few maybes and hope for the best.

We didn’t have the top budget I’m league 1 and we had about 15th highest budget in the championship.

Can’t expect every signing to work out when you’re stretching a smaller budget than you’re competition.

Holmes didn’t really get a look in because Duffy was just SO good. He’s then had injury issues and we’ve moved on beyond his level.

I expect wilder will have a higher hit rate on his signings now we’ve a bit more money to spend than before and I already think his record is pretty impressive.
 
Or are you the Prince!??
 
Should have gave him to Bolton for nowt, footballing spirit and all that, its only the same as him doing naff all now whilst we're paying him.
 
BladeTillIDie said:
Moaning about travelling up north start pre season but not found a club. Class.
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He clearly wants it doesn't he...football career before money for this lad.....

He was on one of the 'I've looked after em but they put money before football' band CW was referring too in his recent interview.
 
In hindsight he was a ridiculous signing really.

Played vs Wolves I think it was where we lost 3-0. Was probably one of the better performers.

If Chris didn't fancy him or didn't think he could play the system, then why buy him?

It's not as if Chris didn't know his strengths and weaknesses.

Clearly persona non-grata. I would not be surprised to see if before the deadline we had paid him up to not have him hanging around the place. But then again, this back issue of his seems quite persistent so maybe he needs to remain employed by us to retain the medical benefits and get the treatment he needs.
 
Weasel said:
He clearly wants it doesn't he...football career before money for this lad.....

He was on one of the 'I've looked after em but they put money before football' band CW was referring too in his recent interview.
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Seems to be getting off lightly for me by our fans. Just because he has a contract why shouldn't he be getting a club and play? He's clearly stated he's not happy up north but he's fine to sit at home on a wage. Disgraceful for me.
 

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Seems odd that he so desperately wants to play, but hasn’t moved on.
He could look to negotiate a release from his contract and then stay down south to get fit and find a club?

So he has only himself to blame for leaving his family for 10 months, to travel to the other side of the world! (Oh...hang on, he’s driving 6 hrs a day or take the train to complete 3-4 hours “work” a day, it’s not another country after all)
Plenty of people will be out of their home for 12 hours a day working, driving all over the country, staying out for nights on bigger distances away from home and all for the average wage of 25k a YEAR...never mind a month!

I have no issue with people staying here as they have a contract, but graft your balls off, get your head down and get on with it. Start whining about it and you deserve the stick you get.
 

Is he even training with us - he has not been involved or seen at the club for a long time. United might have problems paying him up if he is about to possibly retire. If he is fit though he should be training even if with the u23's. Wilder does not striker me as the sort to say just sit at home and do nothing for a year.

Clarke deserves more sympathy but both on big wages are not going to move on unless they have most of their contract paid up. I think if United have not had any takers in January they need to just wait till towards the end of the month and agree a settlement - not full contract as we will be in a posiiton of strenght as both players will struggle to get any kind of decent club/wage after a year out of the game. Look at Carruthers. Barely found himself a league two side and had to trial for them.
 
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