John Lundstram

[I should coco]

We weren’t wrong at the time. Not at all.

Actually many of you were.

He got stick for being a 'shit footballer' but several of us defended him and pointed out there was a decent player in there. The skills he's shown this season haven't just been magically acquired by rubbing a unicorn's knob, they were always there.

As I've said many times, his biggest problem was that he wasn't Paul Coutts. He was a bit part player suddenly dropped in it and expected to make us tick like Rolls Royce Coutts had done.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Actually many of you were.

He got stick for being a 'shit footballer' but several of us defended him and pointed out there was a decent player in there. The skills he's shown this season haven't just been magically acquired by rubbing a unicorn's knob, they were always there.

As I've said many times, his biggest problem was that he wasn't Paul Coutts. He was a bit part player suddenly dropped in it and expected to make us tick like Rolls Royce Coutts had done.

Paul Coutts wasnt “The Paul Coutts” at one time and we didn’t like him either.....

 

[Stretch]

Absolute shite. Get rid.

Sublime touch, and the brief passage of play after which finishes with Fleck's pass is just obscene.

 

[Akinbiyi]

Actually many of you were.

He got stick for being a 'shit footballer' but several of us defended him and pointed out there was a decent player in there. The skills he's shown this season haven't just been magically acquired by rubbing a unicorn's knob, they were always there.

As I've said many times, his biggest problem was that he wasn't Paul Coutts. He was a bit part player suddenly dropped in it and expected to make us tick like Rolls Royce Coutts had done.

No we weren't. Easy to say that in hindsight.

Simply put he didn't suit how we played, him not being Paul Coutts didn't matter, Oli wasn't/isn't -he just knows how to play the deep lying playmaker role. John tried the hollywood balls too often, and his head would drop after an error and he'd never recover. Didn't seem to have the mindset of what's required at the level below nevermind this one.

Something's clicked, and he'd found a role that suits him here. Kudos to him, as much as Alan and Chris for that.

 

[I should coco]

Paul Coutts wasnt “The Paul Coutts” at one time and we didn’t like him either.....

Yes he made a shit winger under Adkins, only marginally more effective than the useless Woolford.

Mind you Bash was a shit midfielder under that twat, although he looked like Messi at the side of Mr Unseenwork.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Lundstram seems to have improved on his fitness levels and pace...add to that he's still got a fairly substantial frame with which adds to his physicality.

He can also spray the ball around as well as anyone (besides norwood perhaps).

 

[Harry's Game]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it?

I suppose this thread will be even funnier when Southgate calls Lunny up.

 

[I should coco]

No we weren't. Easy to say that in hindsight.

It's not hindsight. Me and others said he was a good player at the time.

Simply put he didn't suit how we played, him not being Paul Coutts didn't matter,

So why does he suddenly 'suit' now? The Coutts injury heaped pressure on a young lad expected to make the side tick around him, hence the odd mishit Hollywood pass. Bringing in Evans made things worse, as arguably he was even less creative, so putting more pressure on Lunny.

That said, his skills, reading of the game and ability were there if you looked. I'd accept however his improved fitness and confidence from knowing he won't be dropped for one bad game, have moved him up several levels.

Something's clicked, and he'd found a role that suits him here.

Then it's just like magic, isn't it!

 

[Akinbiyi]

It's not hindsight. Me and others said he was a good player at the time.

So why does he suddenly 'suit' now? The Coutts injury heaped pressure on a young lad expected to make the side tick around him, hence the odd mishit Hollywood pass. Bringing in Evans made things worse, as arguably he was even less creative, so putting more pressure on Lunny.

That said, his skills, reading of the game and ability were there if you looked. I'd accept however his improved fitness and confidence from knowing he won't be dropped for one bad game, have moved him up several levels.

Then it's just like magic, isn't it!

He was 2 footed and technically gifted but that's about it, that's not enough to make you a good player at Championship level or above.

He suits now because, we're... playing differently...? It's a new shape for crying out loud, and he's not being tasked with the deep lying playmaker role like he was post Coutts injury. It's not like it's rocket science. He's playing as a box to box midfielder now and doing it very well indeed.

Ability was there, as I've said, but mental side of the game wasn't up to scratch as much as anything, Agree fitness levels have certainly gone up a notch.

 

[Sharp as a blade]

The lads only 23, recently moved, not had an extended run in the team and keeps getting better with every game.

Think one or two may have judged a bit too early on this one. There's signs he could be a very decent player.

This was my post on December 8th 2017.

The Lundstram haters.

You should sit near me on the kop. Usually kids and chavs but there are a fair few of them. There had to be one, or two, never happy unless there is something to find fault with, stupid bastards.

www.s24su.com

See post 207

I always said he could be a good player. The system at the time didn't suit him in the coutts role and he was never going to replace fleck.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Every dog has it's day. Let's judge his performance level at the end of the season before, we start giving each other reach arounds.

 

[Revolution]

No we weren't. Easy to say that in hindsight.

Simply put he didn't suit how we played, him not being Paul Coutts didn't matter, Oli wasn't/isn't -he just knows how to play the deep lying playmaker role. John tried the hollywood balls too often, and his head would drop after an error and he'd never recover. Didn't seem to have the mindset of what's required at the level below nevermind this one.

Something's clicked, and he'd found a role that suits him here. Kudos to him, as much as Alan and Chris for that.

Absolutely right.

And Wilder recognised this. He realised, for example, that Lundstram (and Evans) weren't the answer last season, and dropped them after 2 games, and is changes brought immediate results. Now he has a use for Lundstram which seems to be working for him (there's an argument that we should be more expansive, but with this flat midfield Lundstram is better suited than others for that role). Once it doesn't work, I expect Wilder to change it.

One of Wilder's great strengths is he doesn't sit there and lose. If he has a problem, he deals with it. He dropped George Long and got someone better. he didn't play the likes of Hussey, Holmes and Leonard just because he'd signed them (compare Adkins with Hammond). He saw what many others see with Robinson and he dropped him. That's a good manager.

The interesting thing is whether Osborn, Besic or Morrison are better bets (we know what Freeman can do). Perhaps we shall find out at some point.

 

[I should coco]

Every dog has it's day.

I don't remember the Hammond Hound, the Woolford Vizsla or the Sammon Terrier winning anything at Crufts.

Let's judge his performance level at the end of the season before, we start giving each other reach arounds

Ok, so no mid season debate on any player then.

Will you be observing this monasterial vow of silence too then?

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

I don't remember the Hammond Hound, the Woolford Vizsla or the Sammon Terrier winning anything at Crufts.

Ok, so no mid season debate on any player then.

Will you be observing this monasterial vow of silence too then?

Yes.

 

[I should coco]

Yes.

And I put it to you sir;

 

[Gimli]

He's still only one bad game away from the lynch mob turning out again.....

Lynch mob to Lynchpin

 

[LJBlade]

He was 2 footed and technically gifted but that's about it, that's not enough to make you a good player at Championship level or above.

He suits now because, we're... playing differently...? It's a new shape for crying out loud, and he's not being tasked with the deep lying playmaker role like he was post Coutts injury. It's not like it's rocket science. He's playing as a box to box midfielder now and doing it very well indeed.

Ability was there, as I've said, but mental side of the game wasn't up to scratch as much as anything, Agree fitness levels have certainly gone up a notch.

You said he was/would be the worst player in the Premiership this season. You never said anything about him having any ability.

 

[Akinbiyi]

You said he was/would be the worst player in the Premiership this season. You never said anything about him having any ability.

And? There's a lot more to being a footballer than having ability. I've played with some lads that genuinely could play League football they're that good at knocking it around. There's much more to it than that, and I didn't think Lundstram had it in his locker. I stand by that comment at the time it was made was right.

His performance levels have risen above anything anyone could've expected. Incredible turnaround.

 

[LJBlade]

And? There's a lot more to being a footballer than having ability. I've played with some lads that genuinely could play League football they're that good at knocking it around. There's much more to it than that, and I didn't think Lundstram had it in his locker. I stand by that comment at the time it was made was right.

His performance levels have risen above anything anyone could've expected. Incredible turnaround.

I'm just pointing out how your message has changed. You went from saying nothing about him having any ability to now saying he had some all along.

Personally, I did expect it. I've always said he had it in him. He's got all of the key attributes, it was just about putting them all together.

 

[Akinbiyi]

I'm just pointing out how your message has changed. You went from saying nothing about him having any ability to now saying he had some all along.

Personally, I did expect it. I've always said he had it in him. He's got all of the key attributes, it was just about putting them all together.

Do I need to make caveats about every player I think is crap at any given time, with every positive attribute they may have?

Yeah, course you did. You saw him as a potential PL box to box midfielder too.

 

[bromtom]

Step forward John Lundstram.

Just got a feeling that he's going to step up next season. No nonsense, brick shit house when we need him.

#MysticMeg

 

[BushBlade]

#MysticMeg

It’s a cracking thread, that.

 

[LJBlade]

Do I need to make caveats about every player I think is crap at any given time, with every positive attribute they may have?

Yeah, course you did. You saw him as a potential PL box to box midfielder too.

I did, you can check my comments about him if you like. It doesn't really matter either way though.

Making caveats about the players you're commenting on is a million miles away from saying they're the worst player in the division and then trying to argue that you weren't actually wrong. A player does not go from being bad to good in such a short space of time (or at all actually).

 

[Balham]

And? There's a lot more to being a footballer than having ability. I've played with some lads that genuinely could play League football they're that good at knocking it around. There's much more to it than that, and I didn't think Lundstram had it in his locker. I stand by that comment at the time it was made was right.

His performance levels have risen above anything anyone could've expected. Incredible turnaround.

Non-league is full of players who could, if football was based on technical attributes only, play at a much higher level. The difference is that as you go up the ladder you start to combine the technical with stronger physical and mental attributes. Lundstram was always a decent footballer (you don't stay in a Cat 1 academy until 18 unless that's the case) but it was the application and decision making letting him down - almost trying too hard to be that player he's not (Coutts/Norwood quarterback) rather than the player he is - a box-to-box, two footed midfielder.

I had my doubts but they were mainly based around the change in system which has been implemented this season. I'm still not convinced we're clinical enough to play the flat three but the defensive solidity has been outstanding - and Lundstram has played his part in that.

 

[Cheesebored]

He was 2 footed and technically gifted but that's about it, that's not enough to make you a good player at Championship level or above.

He suits now because, we're... playing differently...? It's a new shape for crying out loud, and he's not being tasked with the deep lying playmaker role like he was post Coutts injury. It's not like it's rocket science. He's playing as a box to box midfielder now and doing it very well indeed.

Ability was there, as I've said, but mental side of the game wasn't up to scratch as much as anything, Agree fitness levels have certainly gone up a notch.

If he's 2 footed and technically gifted as you say now, he's the antithesis of Mcburnie, someone else you appear to have made a poor judgement on.

 

[Akinbiyi]

If he's 2 footed and technically gifted as you say now, he's the antithesis of Mcburnie, someone else you appear to have made a poor judgement on.

Very weird correlation and frankly quite odd to bring him up

 

[Akinbiyi]

Non-league is full of players who could, if football was based on technical attributes only, play at a much higher level. The difference is that as you go up the ladder you start to combine the technical with stronger physical and mental attributes. Lundstram was always a decent footballer (you don't stay in a Cat 1 academy until 18 unless that's the case) but it was the application and decision making letting him down - almost trying too hard to be that player he's not (Coutts/Norwood quarterback) rather than the player he is - a box-to-box, two footed midfielder.

I had my doubts but they were mainly based around the change in system which has been implemented this season. I'm still not convinced we're clinical enough to play the flat three but the defensive solidity has been outstanding - and Lundstram has played his part in that.

Exactly my point. There has never been any doubt about his technical ability, I find it odd that if I didn't say that previously I can't say he has now. It was pretty clear for all to see, it was the rest of his game that was lacking at that level.

 

[Akinbiyi]

I did, you can check my comments about him if you like. It doesn't really matter either way though.

Making caveats about the players you're commenting on is a million miles away from saying they're the worst player in the division and then trying to argue that you weren't actually wrong. A player does not go from being bad to good in such a short space of time (or at all actually).

I really can't be arsed, frankly, but feel free to dig them up and show me

I wasn't wrong at the time. He was a lad who couldn't get a game in the Championship. This is the most elite league in the world. He was poor and showed no signs of that changing, we didn't work well with the 3 in midfield in the Championship. It all started going right from the Bournemouth game when he was given a new role with new responsibilities to when he'd previously been in the team, in either a 2 or a 3. Since then he has gone from strength to strength and nobody has any doubts about him in that role. I dare say if you tried to turn N'Golo Kante into an attacking midfielder he wouldn't be very impressive either.

As a caveat, do you ever make any comments on this forum which aren't you trying to nitpick a weird, flimsy argument with someone? Not sure I've ever seen you just agree with someone.

 

[LJBlade]

I really can't be arsed, frankly, but feel free to dig them up and show me

I wasn't wrong at the time. He was a lad who couldn't get a game in the Championship. This is the most elite league in the world. He was poor and showed no signs of that changing, we didn't work well with the 3 in midfield in the Championship. It all started going right from the Bournemouth game when he was given a new role with new responsibilities to when he'd previously been in the team, in either a 2 or a 3. Since then he has gone from strength to strength and nobody has any doubts about him in that role. I dare say if you tried to turn N'Golo Kante into an attacking midfielder he wouldn't be very impressive either.

As a caveat, do you ever make any comments on this forum which aren't you trying to nitpick a weird, flimsy argument with someone? Not sure I've ever seen you just agree with someone.

why would I bother to do that, I really don't care. I could show you an exact quote and you still wouldn't believe me.

You were very wrong at the time. He was a lad being kept out of the team by some very good players. I'm not sure why you're getting so bent out of shape about this, we all get them wrong. I once thought that Marc McNulty would become a very good player for us.

Yes, I agree with a lot of people but I disagree with others. isn't that what a message forum is for? I'll try to just agree with you in future, it might make you a little less 'angry man'.

As a further caveat. You also once said that if Lundstram played in the first two games this season we'd lose them both, like last season. I assume you weren't wrong about that either, just mistaken or something?

 

[Akinbiyi]

why would I bother to do that, I really don't care. I could show you an exact quote and you still wouldn't believe me.

You were very wrong at the time. He was a lad being kept out of the team by some very good players. I'm not sure why you're getting so bent out of shape about this, we all get them wrong. I once thought that Marc McNulty would become a very good player for us.

Yes, I agree with a lot of people but I disagree with others. isn't that what a message forum is for? I'll try to just agree with you in future, it might make you a little less 'angry man'.

As a further caveat. You also once said that if Lundstram played in the first two games this season we'd lose them both, like last season. I assume you weren't wrong about that either, just mistaken or something?

Indeed, how silly of me

I totally disagree everyone was wrong to think what they thought about Lundstram pre-season, they were justified points of view. His cataclysmic rise and general footballing improvement is down to him and the management team finding him a suitable role, simple as that.