'It's an absolute disgrace'

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Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Just a reminder. It's not real. It's just a bit of pantomime. Posters on this thread coming at it with logic. It doesn't work like that. None of those fans who apparently had a go at the players premeditated it, none of them processed it, thought it through, weighed up the options, and plumped for abuse.

It was just a bit of pantomime that happens in footie crowds. It's not real. Wilder should know that.
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Perhaps Wilder knows more about it than you? Perhaps being on the receiving end of dogs abuse from your own fans isn't pantomime for them?

I'm sure plenty of people who do embarrassing, abusive, mental shit in other areas of their lives also haven't premeditated it or thought it through. I don't see how that helps.
 

Linz said:
I haven't read the entire thread but I think Wilder has started projecting some of his own insecurities about how the team is playing onto the fans, both when we're good and bad. Ultimately, he's responsible for the showing of the team and while most will be happy - or relieved - with the majority of the results, it wouldn't be inaccurate to say that the "qualiteh" isn't quite there all the time. I'm not entirely being unfair to say that our league position flatters to deceive based on some of the overall 90 minutes we've seen.

He's been making all kinds of chippy asides to the fans around the dugouts about not showing enough appreciation, not supporting enough, not staying behind at full time to applaud etc. instead of dealing with his remit at the time of the eleven men on the pitch. And sometimes the fans are frustrated at what we're seeing because we can - should - be playing consistently better if we're serious about going up.

That lessens the impact when he makes - valid - comments about outright abuse in the position the club is in.

Now, Bury away in 2016 under Nigel Adkins....
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Yup 👍
 
Carlton Blade said:
Again, I wholeheartedly disagree with people thinking they can grade somebody's support (apart from Nick Jansky obviously). You, nor anyone else has any say over how people choose to act once they are in a stadium. Watching United, or any team play is a choice, that costs money. It's not something people are given for free if they display loyalty.

What you're saying is that the team 'deserve' unreserved support and that's a completely valid opinion.
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Presumably you have a way of squaring your logic, but it seems like you're contradicting yourself to me.

You keep bouncing between "those who throw abuse and go OTT should be banned" and "nobody has the right to tell fans how they should act once they're in a stadium."

So you do think some people have the right to tell supporters how to behave if you think some should be banned. What am I missing?

It's also not black and white what would constitute abuse.
 
Bell4 said:
Yup 👍
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If Wilder develops a chip on his shoulder or acts the victim then it's over. Manager and players are in an immensely privileged position. They should always bear that in mind. I always thought Wilder did to be honest. He was always humble. His whole approach and ethos was about re-establishing the connection between the supporters and the club which had been broken. All his success rests on that bedrock. It's his biggest asset. That sense of togetherness he promotes. Backs against the wall. It wouldn't make sense to throw it all away now. Let's hope it's a blip. I think the pressure is getting to everyone including fans, players, manager. It's happened with Leeds. We need to draw a line under Saturday and the fallout.
 
AWetFlannel said:
Presumably you have a way of squaring your logic, but it seems like you're contradicting yourself to me.

You keep bouncing between "those who throw abuse and go OTT should be banned" and "nobody has the right to tell fans how they should act once they're in a stadium."

So you do think some people have the right to tell supporters how to behave if you think some should be banned. What am I missing?

It's also not black and white what would constitute abuse.
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Nobody has right to tell fans how to act, as long as they are acting within the rules that United stick on the back of the tickets, and the law. It's not my job to enforce or even define those rules. That's up to the club
 
Interesting thread. I've certainly expressed how upset I've been after some performances but one thing I don't do is point fingers at individual players in a public forum unless its positive.

We all have to remember this is a team game and its the collective result that sometimes infuriates us. If anyone was cussing at a player post Oxford, they were wrong to do so. Yes, show frustrations, the team needs to know, but not at individuals.

Its like coaching a kids team as I do here in the US: if we are losing, never point the finger at an individual, look at it collectively and advise the individual player privately.

I know I forget that professional players have off days. When I post comments it is always about how badly 'The Team' is playing, never about an individual player.

So, after all of this, tonight's game (2.45pm here in the US) is a critical one FOR THE TEAM. Criticisms, frustrations, and showing how upset we are should be at the team level.

toledo
 
Carlton Blade said:
Nobody has right to tell fans how to act, as long as they are acting within the rules that United stick on the back of the tickets, and the law. It's not my job to enforce or even define those rules. That's up to the club
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So if the rules don't specifically ban screaming abuse at our players yesterday, I don't have the right to call that unhinged and embarrassing?
 
AWetFlannel said:
So if the rules don't specifically ban screaming abuse at our players yesterday, I don't have the right to call that unhinged and embarrassing?
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You can do what you like? That's kind of the whole point. I don't think I've ever tried to say anyone isn't allowed that?
 
The confines of a football ground is one of the few places where completely irrational behaviour is the norm .
Whilst not suggesting that should ever cross the lines of illegality as those behaviours are quite rightly unacceptable.
It's just as irrational to momentarily think of a player as a a twat for missing a sitter as it is to jump around like a loon and hug the stranger next to you when he scores a last minute winner.
Managers scream abuse at the 4th official when a decision doesn't go thier way , this is seen as passion and for many totally acceptable.
None of us do any of this at work , at home or in any other walk of life .
The lionisation and adoration , the criticism and dissatisfaction are just two sides of the same coin .
Am I saying it's OK to give a single player in the face dogs abuse , absolutely not.
Then again let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater , we love the confrontational atmosphere, the emotional and ups and downs over 90 minutes.
It's impossible to just cheer no matter what's happening in front of you , that's even more irrational .
 
Linz said:
He's been making all kinds of chippy asides to the fans around the dugouts about not showing enough appreciation, not supporting enough, not staying behind at full time to applaud etc. instead of dealing with his remit at the time of the eleven men on the pitch. And sometimes the fans are frustrated at what we're seeing because we can - should - be playing consistently better if we're serious about going up.
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I can see it now: some moron shouting at Wilder to bring off x player because they're fucking useless, the player scores, Wilder makes a "chippy" comment about it and the moron says he should focus on his remit rather than accepting they look stupid and learning from it. 🤣
 
Carlton Blade said:
You can do what you like? That's kind of the whole point. I don't think I've ever tried to say anyone isn't allowed that?
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I can do what I like, but also "nobody has right to tell fans how to act". Which is it?!?!

I want to tell the fans that are being ridiculous how to act, I'm criticising how they're acting. One of us is confused or not being clear, I'm worried it's me...
 
AWetFlannel said:
I can do what I like, but also "nobody has right to tell fans how to act". Which is it?!?!

I want to tell the fans that are being ridiculous how to act, I'm criticising how they're acting. One of us is confused or not being clear, I'm worried it's me...
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You can do what you like, you don't need "the right" to think some fans are shit. If you like, I'll rephrase to "nobody should expect to be listened to" when they tell other fans how to act?
 
Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn said:
Apologies for not responding sooner, & in in many ways the ‘debate has ‘moved (on?)’

I’m struggling to see where I stated , or even implied “it’s wrong for fans to be negative”

Your initial response took umbrage with my stating “Behave like a twat & expect to be treated like a twat” You now, contradict yourself by stating “If players are personally abused, the abusers are fair game” - perhaps more eloquently stated than my effort but in essence an identical sentiment?

Equally I did not equate “entitlement” with any negativity from the fanbase but with some folks (arrogant?) assumption that we ‘should’ / would beat Oxford. Somewhat paradoxically this has also been implicitly levelled at the players / management.

I can’t / won’t disagree with your view “ the customer is allowed to show dissatisfaction, within the boundaries my employer sets as allowed”
As I previously stated (some of ) the “dissatisfaction” was ‘off the scale’ to a level that was / is unacceptable- Wilder (as the de facto “employer”) in the immediate aftermath highlighted that “boundaries” had been crossed & chose to not “allow” that to go unchallenged.
Whether this was wise is a moot point - I commended him for doing so, you feel differently.
Any-road must dash & ‘brush up’on punctuation afore Slim Man gets their 2nd wind
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Rent free
 

Camden Blade said:
If Wilder develops a chip on his shoulder or acts the victim then it's over. Manager and players are in an immensely privileged position. They should always bear that in mind. I always thought Wilder did to be honest. He was always humble. His whole approach and ethos was about re-establishing the connection between the supporters and the club which had been broken. All his success rests on that bedrock. It's his biggest asset. That sense of togetherness he promotes. Backs against the wall. It wouldn't make sense to throw it all away now. Let's hope it's a blip. I think the pressure is getting to everyone including fans, players, manager. It's happened with Leeds. We need to draw a line under Saturday and the fallout.
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That used to be true, but that bottom lip got stuck out during covid season and it's barely got tucked back in since
 
I hope this isn't becoming a theme with CW. Apparently he's had another pop at the fans tonight? If resentment, a chip on the shoulder and blaming the fans is his reaction to poor performances he may as well walk out the door now.
 
Camden Blade said:
I hope this isn't becoming a theme with CW. Apparently he's had another pop at the fans tonight? If resentment, a chip on the shoulder and blaming the fans is his reaction to poor performances he may as well walk out the door now.
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What's he said? It's him who should be apologising to the fans for that shit show.
 
AWetFlannel said:
Perhaps Wilder knows more about it than you? Perhaps being on the receiving end of dogs abuse from your own fans isn't pantomime for them?

I'm sure plenty of people who do embarrassing, abusive, mental shit in other areas of their lives also haven't premeditated it or thought it through. I don't see how that helps.
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If Wilder doesn't like the criticism then maybe he should do something about it on the pitch. He doesn't and won't because he's too stubborn and egotistical and thinks he's immune from criticism because he's Mr Sheffield United and drinks with fans in the pub. If he wasn't a Blades fan he'd be getting a lot more flack, and deservedly so. I lost a lot of respect for him after his outburst on Saturday.
 
Camden Blade said:
I hope this isn't becoming a theme with CW. Apparently he's had another pop at the fans tonight? If resentment, a chip on the shoulder and blaming the fans is his reaction to poor performances he may as well walk out the door now.
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AGAIN???Where didi hide that key to the secret door
 
Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn said:
Hmmmm

Remember this:

“must have missed the bit where people have to follow a strict form of etiquette post game. Pay your ticket money, say mwhat you like (within the boundaries of the law) 🤷Treat "punters" like twats, don't be surprised if you eventually lose their loyalty”

&/or:

“He can say whatever he wants, as can the
supporters”

&/or:

“I'm also yet to see where the calling out of paying customers voicing their opinions has led to a more positive work atmosphere. If fans are overstepping their legal boundaries, report them.

'Punters' have been told to stop complaining, sing more, stop pretending they know anything about football etc. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but, in my opinion, the manager woukd be better placed concentrating on his own performance and not rating the paying customers every time things don't go according to plan”

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Like Chanseri said at the pigs fan forum, you buy your ticket to watch the game, you have no right to comment (paraphrased)
 
Tony_Kaufman said:
If Wilder doesn't like the criticism then maybe he should do something about it on the pitch. He doesn't and won't because he's too stubborn and egotistical and thinks he's immune from criticism because he's Mr Sheffield United and drinks with fans in the pub. If he wasn't a Blades fan he'd be getting a lot more flack, and deservedly so. I lost a lot of respect for him after his outburst on Saturday.
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If people like you are determined to conflate criticism with abuse, there's no point in trying to discuss it.

"You've got it wrong today" isn't the same as "you're a fucking useless cunt".
 

Tony_Kaufman said:
If Wilder doesn't like the criticism then maybe he should do something about it on the pitch. He doesn't and won't because he's too stubborn and egotistical and thinks he's immune from criticism because he's Mr Sheffield United and drinks with fans in the pub. If he wasn't a Blades fan he'd be getting a lot more flack, and deservedly so. I lost a lot of respect for him after his outburst on Saturday.
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I lost my respect for him when he left last time. The only reason I tolerate him this time round is that I just can't think of anyone else I'd want in to replace him.

This is still the post COVID Wilder. The old Wilder would have drilled in a proper system and style of play. Now here we are 18 months later and no one really knows what our tactics are.
 
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