Is it possible to experience more relegations than promotions ?

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skyjam

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Because I feel I've seen more of the former than the latter.
Silent, over to you mate .
Been a supporter since 1970.
 

Whatever league you started watching us in, if we are currently in a lower league then you've seen more relegation than promotion haven't you, adds up in my head anyway? If we are in a higher league you'll have seen more promotions, and if we are in the same league then the same amount. I'm sure that has to be right.
 
skyjam said:
Because I feel I've seen more of the former than the latter.
Silent, over to you mate .
Been a supporter since 1970.
Click to expand...
Promotion - 1971, 1982, 1984, 1989, 1990, 2006, 2017, 2019, 2023

Relegation - 1976, 1979, 1981, 1988, 1994, 2007, 2011, 2021, 2024

9 promotions and 9 relegations
 
Blademan18891889 said:
Whatever league you started watching us in, if we are currently in a lower league then you've seen more relegation than promotion haven't you, adds up in my head anyway? If we are in a higher league you'll have seen more promotions, and if we are in the same league then the same amount. I'm sure that has to be right.
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True, unless you support Swindon
 
Certainly feels like more disppointments than good times. But I started watching us in the second tier and that's where we are now.

Maybe the nine(?) play-off failures, cup semi final defeats and final-day relegations have something to do with it.
 

skyjam said:
Because I feel I've seen more of the former than the latter.
Silent, over to you mate .
Been a supporter since 1970.
Click to expand...

Of course. It depends what division we were in the year you were born.
If you're a Wednesday born between 1992 and 1999, you have had more relegations than promotions (only 1 admittedly).

I was born in division 3, so I'm 1 up at 7-6
 
Geordie Blade said:
In the last 22 seasons, we’ve finished in the top half of our league 18 times, and in the bottom half only 4 times. Soon to be 19-4, I imagine.

However, in all 4 seasons in which we finished in the lower half, we got relegated.
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We were never finished in the bottom half of the 2nd tier until 1978!
 
Geordie Blade said:
In the last 22 seasons, we’ve finished in the top half of our league 18 times, and in the bottom half only 4 times. Soon to be 19-4, I imagine.

However, in all 4 seasons in which we finished in the lower half, we got relegated.
Click to expand...

As at the start of this season (updating something I wrote 18 months ago):

Seasons in top division: 63
Seasons in top half of a lower division: 48
Seasons in bottom half of a lower division: 8

The “bad” lower division seasons, ie bottom half finishes:

1977-78 - 12th out of 22
1978-79 - 20th out of 22 (relegated)
1980-81 - 21st out of 24 (relegated)
1984-85 - 18th out of 22
1987-88 - 21st out of 23 (relegated)
1999-00 - 16th out of 24
2001-02 - 13th out of 24
2010-11 - 23rd out of 24 (relegated)

Basically, if we are not in the top division, we are almost always promotion challengers. It’s remarkable.

For comparison, in our 119 league seasons, we have finished in the bottom half of a lower division 8 times. Wednesday have done that 9 times in the last 15 seasons! They’ve done it 24 times in total.
 
Revolution said:
As at the start of this season (updating something I wrote 18 months ago):

Seasons in top division: 63
Seasons in top half of a lower division: 48
Seasons in bottom half of a lower division: 8

The “bad” lower division seasons, ie bottom half finishes:

1977-78 - 12th out of 22
1978-79 - 20th out of 22 (relegated)
1980-81 - 21st out of 24 (relegated)
1984-85 - 18th out of 22
1987-88 - 21st out of 23 (relegated)
1999-00 - 16th out of 24
2001-02 - 13th out of 24
2010-11 - 23rd out of 24 (relegated)

Basically, if we are not in the top division, we are almost always promotion challengers. It’s remarkable.

For comparison, in our 119 league seasons, we have finished in the bottom half of a lower division 8 times. Wednesday have done that 9 times in the last 15 seasons! They’ve done it 24 times in total.
Click to expand...
Seasons where we finished in the top half of a lower division but never seriously looked like getting promoted. I'd say
76-7
82-3
86-7
95-6
00-01
13-14

Obviously, what with the play offs, generally most teams in the top half can reasonably think promotion is possible deep into the season.
 
Revolution said:
It's 13 of each, because we are where we started, in the second tier.

Promotions: 1893, 1939, 1953, 1961, 1971, 1982, 1984, 1989, 1990, 2006, 2017, 2019, 2023

Relegations: 1934, 1949, 1956, 1968, 1976, 1979, 1981, 1988, 1994, 2007, 2011, 2021, 2024
Click to expand...
Not rocket science is it, if you're at the same level you started from you must have had the same number of promotions and relegations.

I'm now trying to think of which clubs have had the highest ratio of promotions to relegations and vice versa...

I thinking maybe Ipswich, Palace, Bournemouth or Brighton for the highest promotion ratio and Notts County for highest relegation ratio (having been founder members of the Football League and have never been a 'phoenix' club.

Edit : I think Palace have the highest promotion ratio as when Division 3 North and South were re-organised in 1958, Palace finished 14th in Division 3 South which meant they went into the newly formed Division 4 whereas the others were in Division 3 or above in Ipswich's case.
 
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programmechap said:
Seasons where we finished in the top half of a lower division but never seriously looked like getting promoted. I'd say
76-7
82-3
86-7
95-6
00-01
13-14

Obviously, what with the play offs, generally most teams in the top half can reasonably think promotion is possible deep into the season.
Click to expand...
I think I'd add 01-02 to that list - to my mind it always felt like we need to "win the next 3" and we might be in with a shout of the playoffs

EDIT: Just checked on 1st Jan/Feb/Mar/Apr we were 12, 10, 13 and 11 points adrift of 6th place - never realistically in contention
 
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Revolution said:
As at the start of this season (updating something I wrote 18 months ago):

Seasons in top division: 63
Seasons in top half of a lower division: 48
Seasons in bottom half of a lower division: 8

The “bad” lower division seasons, ie bottom half finishes:

1977-78 - 12th out of 22
1978-79 - 20th out of 22 (relegated)
1980-81 - 21st out of 24 (relegated)
1984-85 - 18th out of 22
1987-88 - 21st out of 23 (relegated)
1999-00 - 16th out of 24
2001-02 - 13th out of 24
2010-11 - 23rd out of 24 (relegated)

Basically, if we are not in the top division, we are almost always promotion challengers. It’s remarkable.

For comparison, in our 119 league seasons, we have finished in the bottom half of a lower division 8 times. Wednesday have done that 9 times in the last 15 seasons! They’ve done it 24 times in total.
Click to expand...

It also highlights how bad we are at relegation battles. Given that only 25% of the positions in the bottom half of the table are relegation positions, we’ve succeeded in finishing in them on 50% of the occasions we’ve finished in the bottom half.

In recent years this tendency has started to spread to our efforts in the top division as well. Across Bassett’s, Warnock’s and Wilder’s top division forays, totalling 8 seasons, we’ve finished in the top half twice (not bad for an occasional visitor to the top flight) but of the 6 seasons we’ve finished in the bottom half, we’ve been relegated in 3 of them.

Our lack of practice at finishing in the bottom half perhaps contributes to us being particularly bad at it.
 
WorkingtonBlade said:
It also highlights how bad we are at relegation battles. Given that only 25% of the positions in the bottom half of the table are relegation positions, we’ve succeeded in finishing in them on 50% of the occasions we’ve finished in the bottom half.

In recent years this tendency has started to spread to our efforts in the top division as well. Across Bassett’s, Warnock’s and Wilder’s top division forays, totalling 8 seasons, we’ve finished in the top half twice (not bad for an occasional visitor to the top flight) but of the 6 seasons we’ve finished in the bottom half, we’ve been relegated in 3 of them.

Our lack of practice at finishing in the bottom half perhaps contributes to us being particularly bad at it.
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Last 4 seasons we finished in the bottom half we've been relegated 20, 18, 20, 20
 
It set me thinking about which club has had the most consecutive bottom-half finishes.

From my childhood I remember Rochdale as being pretty much a fixture in the bottom half of their division, so I looked it up - they had 19 consecutive bottom-half finishes from 1971 to 1989 (initially in division 3, then in division 4).

Has anyone beaten that?

Incidentally, Rochdale did finish bottom of the league a couple of times in that sequence, but with no relegation to the conference in those days they remained where they were. When relegation/promotion to/from the conference was introduced in 1986 they improved markedly, and over the next three decades even managed a couple of forays into the third flight, before eventually finishing bottom of the league again in 2023 and being relegated.
 
Carlisle were doing well when I started watching Blades. Made it to top division for one season but it's been pretty miserable for them since
 
Arsenal and Everton have never been relegated from the top division, though Everton had to work their way up from the lower tiers so not sure if they have had a relegation or 2 before they reached the top flight.

Before they were relegated to league 2 a few years ago, didn't Walsall have something like 15+ consecutive seasons in league 1? Early 2000's to the late 2010's.
 
loyalblade95 said:
Arsenal and Everton have never been relegated from the top division, though Everton had to work their way up from the lower tiers so not sure if they have had a relegation or 2 before they reached the top flight.
Click to expand...
Arsenal got relegated before 1st World War. Everton's last season outside the top division was 1953-54
 

loyalblade95 said:
Arsenal and Everton have never been relegated from the top division, though Everton had to work their way up from the lower tiers so not sure if they have had a relegation or 2 before they reached the top flight.

Before they were relegated to league 2 a few years ago, didn't Walsall have something like 15+ consecutive seasons in league 1? Early 2000's to the late 2010's.
Click to expand...
Everton started in the top flight. They have only spent 4 seasons in the second tier, 1930-1 and 1951-54.

Arsenal were relegated in 1913.
 
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