100 years without a trophy, 10 failed play-off attempts, why have we underachieved as a football club?

[loyalblade95]

No accident that southern clubs are currently to the fore whereas they were historically down the pecking order ie. Fulham, Palace, Brighton, Brentford, B’muff.

Add on the big London clubs who Arsenal apart have been in the second tier.

The north generally has been left behind

London money/tax playing a big part in that.

Imagine if you picked up Fulham and just dropped them somewhere in Cumbria or Northumberland rather than London.

They'd probably be championship mainstays with the occasional season in the PL, as they wouldn't be able to afford/offer their current wages to players.

 

[Loco Blade]

Didn’t we get a trophy for winning league 1 ?

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Other things missing from what's gone against us.

● Fax machine
● Timezones
● High Court Judges
● Goalkeeper drinks bottles
● Big dogs coming knocking
● Shutters not working
● Flu/Sunstroke
● Players not having a pre season

 

[Houston_Blade]

You need both, and money puts you into the situation to take advantage of that luck more often.

For me it's a series of bad luck/preposterous situations coupled with having owners with not quite deep enough pockets.

On the luck/preposterous bit, I think you'd struggle to find a club that could match the following in the last 30+ years

• Relegated in the last minute having been winning at 75 mins and needing a series of other results to go against us - the season before only 2 teams go up from the 1st div
• Lose a PO final to a wonder goal in the last minute
• Save of the century David Seaman
• 3 down at HT in a PO final
• Losing at home to get relegated and again seeing other results not go our way (specifically a team looking completely relegated winning 7/9)
• Tevez
• Playoffs with no strikers due to injuries
• Ched
• Losing a Penalty shoot out when you opponents Gail to score any of their first 3
• Scoring 5 away from home in a PO semi and still not winning
• COVID derailing our best season in living memory
• VAR in a PO final, winning on 75 mins - lost at 90

It is no wonder we think we are cursed.

Apart from Ched getting sent down all of these were things we could have done something about had we not got a culture where we just seem happy to blame bad luck for our own shortcomings. Whilst ever fans are happy to blame our bad luck then the club will alway get away with poor performance.

• Relegated in the last minute having been winning at 75 mins and needing a series of other results to go against us - the season before only 2 teams go up from the 1st div - we could have done better with our result
• Lose a PO final to a wonder goal in the last minute - we didn’t turn up having played ok for most of the season
• Save of the century David Seaman - head it harder and he doesn’t have a chance
• 3 down at HT in a PO final - poor team selection and preparation
• Losing at home to get relegated and again seeing other results not go our way (specifically a team looking completely relegated winning 7/9) - don’t lose to Wigan at home
• Tevez - we needed to score 1 more goal all season and were far too negative in some games
• Playoffs with no strikers due to injuries - poor squad management, a recurring theme
• Ched - unlucky
• Losing a Penalty shoot out when you opponents Gail to score any of their first 3 - didn’t turn up in the game and then made stupid subs (Taylor)
• Scoring 5 away from home in a PO semi and still not winning - we conceded 5
• COVID derailing our best season in living memory - Lost JOC and never adjusted how we played
• VAR in a PO final, winning on 75 mins - lost at 90 - nothing to do with luck, terrible last 20 mins cost us

 

[Selly]

For me, you have to have 'a measure' i.e.we have underachieved when compared to whom? Do we see ourselves as a Premier league bottom half club? Given all the facts (and let's not slip into Piggy deludamol territory) - with what we have where should we be?

Compared to whom? Well let's take a look at the top half of the Championship

Leeds - won a title in 92
Burnley - nowt
Sunderland - fa cup final in 92
Coventry - 87 fa cup
Bristol C - nowt
Blackburn - title in 95
Millwall - fa cup finals 2004 and in Europe
WBA - nowt
Boro - LC in 04 and a couple of other finals, fa cup final
Swansea - LC 2013
SWFC (1990) - LC 91
Norwich - played in Europe in 94/95

So Burnley/Bristol C aside, every club around us has done more than us in the past 35 years. Expand it to the PL and the same is mostly true, and even the clubs that haven't won anything can point to a sustained spell in the top flight (i.e. more than the paltry 2 consecutive seasons we have managed since the mid 70's.

We have seriously underperformed for a club with our average league position over the last 35 years

 

[Selly]

Good job you haven't gone back 44 years to 1981.

Thought about it, but it felt like stretching it to go back another 13 years to find something preposterous happening.

 

[Cheets]

Thought about it, but it felt like stretching it to go back another 13 years to find something preposterous happening.

Or you could have gone back to September 1939 and WWII breaking out when we were second in Division One

 

[robbiez666]

There's just not much money in this city. Especially on this side.

 

[NAnstonblade]

Compared to whom? Well let's take a look at the top half of the Championship

Leeds - won a title in 92
Burnley - nowt
Sunderland - fa cup final in 92
Coventry - 87 fa cup
Bristol C - nowt
Blackburn - title in 95
Millwall - fa cup finals 2004 and in Europe
WBA - nowt
Boro - LC in 04 and a couple of other finals, fa cup final
Swansea - LC 2013
SWFC (1990) - LC 91
Norwich - played in Europe in 94/95

So Burnley/Bristol C aside, every club around us has done more than us in the past 35 years. Expand it to the PL and the same is mostly true, and even the clubs that haven't won anything can point to a sustained spell in the top flight (i.e. more than the paltry 2 consecutive seasons we have managed since the mid 70's.

We have seriously underperformed for a club with our average league position over the last 35 years

Selly, you missed WBA off the 'nowt' list. You may disagree but anything pre-millenium is ancient history in my book and straying into the pigs 'club with a history' spiel. Not disagreeing with the OP but trying to get a meaningful handle on what is being said.

 

[Houston_Blade]

At a fans forum in May 2016, less than a fortnight after [Evans's] conviction was quashed, the chairman and co-owner, Kevin McCabe, in his introduction before answering the usual questions on player sales and transfer targets after another failed attempt to get out of the third tier, was revealing about the psyche of the club.

“We should undoubtedly have escaped League One back in 2012, the slam dunk automatic promotion we were robbed of because of the unfortunate incident of Ched Evans.

“No other club get these extraordinary events that hit you at exactly the wrong time of the season. I do talk about it when I’m around football supporters from other clubs and they begin to talk about some of their incidents: they’re nothing like ours. They don’t have a Ched Evans issue, they don’t have a Carlos Tevez affair [who kept West Ham in the Premier League at United’s expense in 2006-7].”

From the Guardian.

Bad luck certainly does come into it our failings.

At the same time regarding Tevez I was more annoyed not that West Ham signed him, it was that we didn't.

The victim complex runs through the club. Be better at football and you don’t need to worry about these external factors. Having to rely on Evans in league 1 cost us, he went and we signed Will Hoskin as a backup ffs.

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

Small time loser mentality that is compounded with every failure

No other club is, when it really matters, as likely to resort to negative hoofball by absolute default as we are. We insisted on it despite our superiority. There is a deeply ingrained inferiority complex at the club. 3 cheers for our opponents though, eh.....

 

[cahill]

London money/tax playing a big part in that.

Imagine if you picked up Fulham and just dropped them somewhere in Cumbria or Northumberland rather than London.

They'd probably be championship mainstays with the occasional season in the PL, as they wouldn't be able to afford/offer their current wages to players.

Fulham of all the southern clubs just happen to be in the right place. Can’t ever see this changing. Outside the big metropolis of the north we’re all destined to play second fiddle

 

[noire]

I know I’m old. But Burnley and WBA have won major honours and played in Europe in my lifetime.

 

[Menage a petit pois]

We haven't underachieved. I'd go so far as saying we have on balance overachieved. We aren't a big club, we have never had owners with pots of cash, we are a mid to top championship club in all regards. Suck it up and accept things as they are or you will likely end up like the porcine filth with a sense of entitlement that is at odds with reality.

 

[cahill]

I know I’m old. But Burnley and WBA have won major honours and played in Europe in my lifetime.

Me an all

 

[programmechap]

Me an all

Teams that have won major trophies in my life time.
1. Middlesbrough
2. Derby
3. Arsenal
4. Chelsea
5. QPR
6. Palace
7. Wimbledon
8. West Ham
9. Spurs
10. Man.U
11 Man City
12. Wigan
13. Portsmouth
14. Southampton
15. Blackburn
16. Leicester
17. Liverpool
18. Everton
19. Norwich
20. Forest
21.Oxford
22. Wednesday
23. Stoke
24. Ipswich
25. Sunderland
26. Newcastle
27. Coventry
28. Villa
29. Birmingham
30 WBA
31. Wolves
32. Leeds
33. Swindon
34. Swansea
35. Luton

And appearing in finals...
36. Brighton
37. Fulham
38. Millwall
39. Bolton
40. Oldham.
41. Watford
42. Hull
43. Tranmere
44. Bradford
45. Cardiff

And played in Europe
46. Burnley

46 fucking teams have managed to do something United have never done when I've been alive...

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Just to say....

The main question - why have we underachieved for a Century. And many of the points raised above are the subject of a new book. Essentially written and published to coincide with the 100th anniversary of the 1925 FA Cup triumph.

"Winning Isn't Everything"
"Sheffield United's Unfulfilled Century"

By Gary Armstrong and Matthew Bell

Available from the Club Shop and "all good booksellers"

 

[cahill]

Teams that have won major trophies in my life time.
1. Middlesbrough
2. Derby
3. Arsenal
4. Chelsea
5. QPR
6. Palace
7. Wimbledon
8. West Ham
9. Spurs
10. Man.U
11 Man City
12. Wigan
13. Portsmouth
14. Southampton
15. Blackburn
16. Leicester
17. Liverpool
18. Everton
19. Norwich
20. Forest
21.Oxford
22. Wednesday
23. Stoke
24. Ipswich
25. Sunderland
26. Newcastle
27. Coventry
28. Villa
29. Birmingham
30 WBA
31. Wolves
32. Leeds
33. Swindon
34. Swansea
35. Luton

And appearing in finals...
36. Brighton
37. Fulham
38. Millwall
39. Bolton
40. Oldham.
41. Watford
42. Hull
43. Tranmere
44. Bradford
45. Cardiff

And played in Europe
46. Burnley

46 fucking teams have managed to do something United have never done when I've been alive...

Some depressing stat that.

 

[programmechap]

Some depressing stat that.

If we go back to when United were last in a final.in 1936 we can add

Trophy winners
47. Preston
48. Blackpool
49. Charlton

And finalists
50. Rochdale
51. Rotherham
52. Huddersfield

 

[programmechap]

If we go back to when United were last in a final.in 1936 we can add

Trophy winners
47. Preston
48. Blackpool
49. Charlton

And finalists
50. Rochdale
51. Rotherham
52. Huddersfield

Only 3 current league teams that have won a trophy have to go back further than United
All FA Cup winners
1912 Barnsley
1911 Bradford
1894 Notts County

For all 3 clubs that was their only trophy. United managed 5 in their first 29 league seasons and nothing in the subsequent 93...

 

[programmechap]

Only 3 current league teams that have won a trophy have to go back further than United
All FA Cup winners
1912 Barnsley
1911 Bradford
1894 Notts County

For all 3 clubs that was their only trophy. United managed 5 in their first 29 league seasons and nothing in the subsequent 93...

Gaps between trophy wins
1892-98 6 seasons
1898-99 1 season
1899-1902 3 seasons
1902-15 13 seasons
1915-25 6 seasons (4 lost to WW1)
1925 - 93 seasons and counting...

 

[FMBlade1]

Luck has featured quite highly in this poll.

Thing is even in the the most high-profile examples you can point towards failings on our part:

- Tevez: We didn't try to sign him, West Ham were able to because of good contacts, better financial resources and the fact they are based in London. Our transfers in that season were on the whole poor.

- Evans: If he hadn't gone into that hotel room, he would never have been charged. If he was never charged, he would have left the club upon our relegation to another team and we wouldn't have got his 35 goals in league one.

- Covid: This checked our momentum for sure but we didn't manage the situation well as trained too hard and other teams adapted better.

As for refereeing the top three examples are probably:

- Sunderland VAR- that debate is still going on but even if it had been allowed they would have had around an hour to score twice, do we think we would have held on?

- Arsenal Graham Poll- yes he got in the way but is it guaranteed Michael Tonge would have stopped the goal? Even if he had the game would have been 0-0 with again no guarantee we would have gone on to win.

- Villa Hawkeye- we would have got 2 more points and more confidence but the team was clearly running out of steam anyway.

---

If it were the case we were 1-0 up in a match and the ref gave a team a dodgy penalty in the 95th minute and we went on to lose you could clearly say that luck definitively cost us but not in these incidents.

 

[Silent Blade]

The creation of the Premier League has a lot to do with why both Sheffield clubs have underachieved since 1992.

Between 1975 and 1989 was down to poor managers and poor financial management.

Between 1925 and 1975 we didnt really underachieve in the league but underachieved in the cup competitions.

 

[skegblade]

So long as we’re above the Wendy’s…Life couldn’t be better…

Is that the wendyyhat actually won a trophy as the 5hread goes?

 

[FMBlade1]

Is that the wendyyhat actually won a trophy as the 5hread goes?

They have won a trophy of course but they haven't played in the PL for more than 20 years and arguably have underachieved in the last 100 years as much as we have.

Is that a coincidence? Or does it point to our geography and demographics being a problem?

 

[programmechap]

They have won a trophy of course but they haven't played in the PL for more than 20 years and arguably have underachieved in the last 100 years as much as we have.

Is that a coincidence? Or does it point to our geography and demographics being a problem?

Having only 5 premier league seasons between the two Sheffield clubs in the 21st century (if we count 1999-2000) is ridiculous for one of England's big 6 cities.

 

[ForgeBlade]

I don't think we have, on balance. Maybe if you go back to the 1920's/30's then we could arguably have had more success back then, but the reasons why we didn't are lost in the mists of time.

Taking the last 35 years (which I'm only choosing as that's the period of time in which I've been aware of football as a concept, and of sheff utd as "my team") I think we're about where we should be. We're not a huge club, we're not a sleeping giant. We're a biggish, well-supported club from a sadly unfashionable and left-behind 2-club city. We've had promotions and cup runs, as well as our share of bad times.

There is an argument that we've had some spectacularly fluky incidents of bad luck. In terms of winning cups, that was always unlikely, but we've been close to finals on a number of occasions, and been undone by some baffling decisions or sheer rotten luck. Seaman's save in 2003, the horrendous officiating at Anfield in the closing minutes in the same season. In the league, we've had the Ched Evans debacle, and most recently the introduction of VAR for a single game in a season without it, when, of course, it screwed us.

In the modern game, any team from outside a select group of maybe 10 actually winning anything is staggeringly rare. If you discount the "Big 6" of Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd and Tottenham, then since 1990 (36 years of trophies) the league cup has been won by Forest, Wednesday, Villa (2), Leicester (2), Blackburn, Middlesborough and Swansea. 9 times in 36 years, so exactly 1 in 4, or 24%.

The FA Cup over the same period, again excluding the big 6, has been won by Everton, Portsmouth, Wigan, Leicester and Palace (all 1 each). 5 out of 36, or roughly 14%.

So from 72 available trophies since 1990, 14 have been won by teams outside that group of 6. 19.5%, call it 1 in 5 to be generous. It doesn't make good reading for clubs like us who are outside the top table.

It's even worse for winning the actual League title. Only Leeds, Blackburn and Leicester have done that in the same time frame.

In total, that puts 23 teams above us in terms of trophies won since 1990, and most of them have only won 1. Of the teams mentioned, I'd argue we are a "bigger" (whatever that means) club than Wigan, Portsmouth, Blackburn and (endless debate aside, speaking in modern terms) Wednesday.

I'm sort of losing track of my original idea here, but I think the conclusion I come to is that, in terms of modern (2025) stature in the game, there are 4 clubs who have achieved demonstrably more than us who we are comparable in size to, or arbitrarily "bigger than." All 4 of them have since spent time in L1 or lower, and none have ever really looked like getting back to the top table.

I think we're about where we should be, at least over the last 35 years, in terms of what we've done. If we'd got lucky like some of these clubs, we might have fluked a cup win, but other than that, we've performed about as we should expect. Whether we should expect more, or deserve more, is a different debate, but I genuinely don't think we have really underachieved, in my lifetime at least.

(FWIW, my 3 votes were:

We haven't underachieved- we've had several promotions and cup semi-finals​

​

The way in which we fail to hang on to good players/persuade them to stay​

Too inwardly focused on having those with 'Blades connection' involved with the club)​