How much influence are you happy for AI to have?

[SRBlade]

Someone i know who works for an established PL team who have recruited really well said what they do is;

“Scouting comes first, then we check the data and pass a shortlist to the Manager—but there’s way more to it than that. Things like how the deal's shaping up, what the agent’s saying, and what the owners or chairman think all play a big part too.”

I personally thought the data would be the first step to identify relevant players in order to maximise your scouting 'hours'.

Nothing groundbreaking above but I'd hazard a guess that we're now doing very similar, but with a few targets where the data check is step one and it suggests they're worth a punt.

 

[10-0 win]

We need to look at undervalued leagues like the dutch.belgian and french along with scandinavia austria and more or less all leagues. The elephant in the room beeing overpriced english players. League one players with a good season more expensive than good players on the continent. All part of the sideeffects of having the richest league in the world

 

[GymClassHero]

Regarding the first paragraph, agreed. But the model failed on Tom Cannon, so isn't infallible.

Regarding the second paragraph. I think you'll be disappointed, though how much of it is ever disclosed we'll have to see.

I still think Cannon was more to do with Wilder pushing for it and the owners agreeing as opposed to the AI model selecting him.

 

[Tarqs]

I still think Cannon was more to do with Wilder pushing for it and the owners agreeing as opposed to the AI model selecting him.

It's well known wilder wanted him on loan before any link to these AI lot

 

[alcoblade]

I still think Cannon was more to do with Wilder pushing for it and the owners agreeing as opposed to the AI model selecting him.

The initial selections decision yes, he was wanted by Wilder. The evaluation of him, and the price we paid - driven by AI.

 

[Tarqs]

The initial selections decision yes, he was wanted by Wilder. The evaluation of him, and the price we paid - driven by AI.

Id suggest the price we paid was 100% driven by Leicester.

 

[alcoblade]

Id suggest the price we paid was 100% driven by Leicester.

You'd be right that the price was driven by Leicester. And we wouldn't have met it, if it wasn't for AI.

 

[Tarqs]

Nah, I don't buy into it.

You've heard something, I reckon it's a vastly exaggerated version of the truth

 

[alcoblade]

Nah, I don't buy into it.

You've heard something, I reckon it's a vastly exaggerated version of the truth

I think I got that message from you 25 posts ago.

 

[Montymagic]

So given that our old manager was ousted for a perceived lack of embracement of modern ways - particularly the new AI model - how much say should the new manager have?

For example, should management be forced to pick Jefferson Cacares for the under 21's?

How much should AI influence team selection for the first team?

Should AI be used to justify much larger fees for players than the manager would himself sanction?

Almost got me there AI

But you are getting nothing from me!

 

[Sean Thornton]

The initial selections decision yes, he was wanted by Wilder. The evaluation of him, and the price we paid - driven by AI.

4th Feb Bettis spoke to RS about our signings. Despite one poster claiming SB said Cannon was AI driven, he said no such thing. He spoke about the two AI signings for the two wingers but there was no mention of that re Cannon. So in effect unless the club verify it, no one knows either way.

 

[alcoblade]

4th Feb Bettis spoke to RS about our signings. Despite one poster claiming SB said Cannon was AI driven, he said no such thing. He spoke about the two AI signings for the two wingers but there was no mention of that re Cannon. So in effect unless the club verify it, no one knows either way.

Those two (and now three) signings were identified by AI from the outset.

I doubt every signing will be done that way, and Cannon wasn't. But players identified by other means will be run through an ai filter, and judged from it. You'd expect nothing less.

Who knows what proportion of players will be identified through ai in the first place, going forward.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Those two (and now three) signings were identified by AI from the outset.

I doubt every signing will be done that way, and Cannon wasn't. But for players identified by other means will be run through an ai filter, and judged from it. You'd expect nothing less.

My point was just about Cannon and what Bettis said. Not disagreeing over anyone else

 

[PrestwichBlade]

I do think some thought might need to be given to any impact on Academy Recruitment in the round.

At the moment, I feel we have a good sell to both local 10 year olds & their parents, Arblaster for eg, AND national 17 year olds searching for a second chance Academy, Peck for eg.

That sell is - a clear progession pathway and a track record of getting players who develop, and are good enough, into the First Team.

We wouldn't want a future Peck to say - why would I choose you? Isn't my path going to be crowded with some random player from Africa, currently playing in Bulgaria, I've heard you're more interested in turning a people trafficking profit, than in developing players into the EFL.

Behave

I do think some thought might need to be given to any impact on Academy Recruitment in the round.

At the moment, I feel we have a good sell to both local 10 year olds & their parents, Arblaster for eg, AND national 17 year olds searching for a second chance Academy, Peck for eg.

That sell is - a clear progession pathway and a track record of getting players who develop, and are good enough, into the First Team.

We wouldn't want a future Peck to say - why would I choose you? Isn't my path going to be crowded with some random player from Africa, currently playing in Bulgaria, I've heard you're more interested in turning a people trafficking profit, than in developing players into the EFL.

Do you think that thought hasn't happened? Is there any reason there can't be a pathway for both?

 

[ThirdGenBlade]

So given that our old manager was ousted for a perceived lack of embracement of modern ways - particularly the new AI model - how much say should the new manager have?

For example, should management be forced to pick Jefferson Cacares for the under 21's?

How much should AI influence team selection for the first team?

Should AI be used to justify much larger fees for players than the manager would himself sanction?

Overall everybody on here is using the term AI when they are really talking about advanced data analysis systems. AI is a step beyond, as it is a machine-learning data analysis system which improves itself against the success parameters that you specify.

The owners have simply said that they will use a data-driven approach, which will undoubtedly use AI alongside more traditional analyses.

However, if you are negative about the potential of AI, I suggest you watch the film The Thinking Game about a British guy’s development of Deepmind - probably the best system in the world - or if you like action, watch some of the AI controlled weapons from Ukraine and Israel, avoiding attack and self-identifying the target they have been sent to destroy, sometimes after up to 1000 mile journey.

Everybody thinks football is complex, but as managers always say, it’s just keep it out at one end and stick it in at the other. So AI has very clear success parameters against which it can analyse millions of games. It can then identify players with the abilities that match your strategy - or identify the best strategy for the abilities of the players that you have.

The future happens whether you stick your head in the sand or wave “I’m over here”.

UTB & FTP!

 

[alcoblade]

Overall everybody on here is using the term AI when they are really talking about advanced data analysis systems. AI is a step beyond, as it is a machine-learning data analysis system which improves itself against the success parameters that you specify.

The owners have simply said that they will use a data-driven approach, which will undoubtedly use AI alongside more traditional analyses.

However, if you are negative about the potential of AI, I suggest you watch the film The Thinking Game about a British guy’s development of Deepmind - probably the best system in the world - or if you like action, watch some of the AI controlled weapons from Ukraine and Israel, avoiding attack and self-identifying the target they have been sent to destroy, sometimes after up to 1000 mile journey.

Everybody thinks football is complex, but as managers always say, it’s just keep it out at one end and stick it in at the other. So AI has very clear success parameters against which it can analyse millions of games. It can then identify players with the abilities that match your strategy - or identify the best strategy for the abilities of the players that you have.

The future happens whether you stick your head in the sand or wave “I’m over here”.

UTB & FTP!

I'm not remotely negative about the use of AI going forward. Of course I've got reservations, I'm sure those at the helm have too.

I'm genuinely interested in how far it's pushed, that's all.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I do think some thought might need to be given to any impact on Academy Recruitment in the round.

At the moment, I feel we have a good sell to both local 10 year olds & their parents, Arblaster for eg, AND national 17 year olds searching for a second chance Academy, Peck for eg.

That sell is - a clear progession pathway and a track record of getting players who develop, and are good enough, into the First Team.

We wouldn't want a future Peck to say - why would I choose you? Isn't my path going to be crowded with some random player from Africa, currently playing in Bulgaria, I've heard you're more interested in turning a people trafficking profit, than in developing players into the EFL.

The only unqualified success of the last decade is the academy and the job they've done creating pro players for both United and in general. Any change to that would be a shame and a much bigger hit on the clubs 'culture' than changing the bloke who picks the 1st team

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I love being parochial…It’s our shtick.

 

[GrunkyPeep]

I'm not remotely negative about the use of AI going forward. Of course I've got reservations, I'm sure those at the helm have too.

I'm genuinely interested in how far it's pushed, that's all.

What AI are they using?

 

[Upton_Blade]

We're using AI way beyond selection of potential transfer targets. I think people will be surprised (some excited, some terrified) by how far it will go beyond that.

I'd love to see the evidence behind that statement. Not even Brentford or Brighton use it to that extent.

Regarding transfers I'm "fairly certain" that the "computer says yes" answer has led us to pay way over the odds for at least one player.

Assume you're talking about Cannon. I honestly believe the line that he was chosen via AI, or data, to be absolute bollocks quite frankly. He was a target for CW before the Yanks had even taken over. We tried to get him in the summer but PA wouldn't sanction the loan fee. Are you seriously telling me that 6 months later we supposedly started using a different "AI Led" model and that model just happened to come up with the same name that we were trying to sign 6 months earlier? Even more bizarre considering what we've all seen with our very own eyes re his abilities.

Regarding team selection - it's already influencing matters. The selection of the managerial post has and will determine how far that goes.

If you truly believe any club will EVER use AI to influence team selection then I genuinely don't believe you. No manager worth anything whatsoever would ever let data pick the team for them. They may use the data to influence their own choices but that has been happening for years via the data collected for health anyway.

 

[alcoblade]

What AI are they using?

I haven't got a clue

 

[alcoblade]

I'd love to see the evidence behind that statement. Not even Brentford or Brighton use it to that extent.



Assume you're talking about Cannon. I honestly believe the line that he was chosen via AI, or data, to be absolute bollocks quite frankly. He was a target for CW before the Yanks had even taken over. We tried to get him in the summer but PA wouldn't sanction the loan fee. Are you seriously telling me that 6 months later we supposedly started using a different "AI Led" model and that model just happened to come up with the same name that we were trying to sign 6 months earlier? Even more bizarre considering what we've all seen with our very own eyes re his abilities.



If you truly believe any club will EVER use AI to influence team selection then I genuinely don't believe you. No manager worth anything whatsoever would ever let data pick the team for them. They may use the data to influence their own choices but that has been happening for years via the data collected for health anyway.

You're welcome to believe I'm lying - that's your choice. You might wonder why I would, and what track record I've got for it. But it makes no difference to me.

Regarding Cannon, you clearly haven't read the full thread.

Irrespective of what I know, I'd be amazed if ai isn't used in a big way for team selection in future, here and elsewhere.

 

[Houston_Blade]

You can tell the yanks have taken over, “So” is back as a sentence starter!

 

[GrunkyPeep]

I haven't got a clue

Not sure you can be a credible voice on the use of AI in the club if you havent a clue what they are using.

 

[alcoblade]

Not sure you can be a credible voice on the use of AI in the club if you havent a clue what they are using.

I'm not trying to be. I've asked to what extent people would trust it's use, as a discussuon point.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Those two (and now three) signings were identified by AI from the outset.

I doubt every signing will be done that way, and Cannon wasn't. But players identified by other means will be run through an ai filter, and judged from it. You'd expect nothing less.

Who knows what proportion of players will be identified through ai in the first place, going forward.

Have you heard of any other strikers the new board have been keen on over the last season or so ?

 

[alcoblade]

Have you heard of any other strikers the new board have been keen on over the last season or so ?

No.. I'm a million miles from being ITK. I've recently come across some very significant chunks of information, from an extremely trustworthy source. It doesn't go into fine detail, and it wasn't the point of the thread, though hearing it sparked the questions in the OP. With hindsight I should have left it out.

 

[MTBlade]

I will get worried if robots are stood on the sidelines giving instructions and then coming to the Kop after a win, kissing the badge .

I really havent got a clue how Utd plan to use it (unlike some on here who seem to know everything, until they are asked to elaberate).

I can only see benefits as it has to spread the player search further, unlike with human scouts only.

Yes, im worried that some nerds want robots to take over the world, am i worried about United using AI (not until someone tells me exactly how Utd plan to use it).

 

[GrunkyPeep]

I'm not trying to be. I've asked to what extent people would trust it's use, as a discussuon point.

You played the "I know something you don't know" card.

If your source didn't know what we are using I'd suggest they aren't really a credible voice here either.

 

[Carlton Blade]

No.. I'm a million miles from being ITK. I've recently come across some very significant chunks of information, from an extremely trustworthy source. It doesn't go into fine detail, and it wasn't the point of the thread, though hearing it sparked the questions in the OP. With hindsight I should have left it out.

I think it's helped the conversation along and worked pretty well as a counterpoint.