Has Hecky got what it takes? - Poll

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

You think he’s going to get us anywhere near the promotion picture without Ndiaye?

We don’t even have a style of play for a start. His genius and mercurial ability is why we are where we are now.

We"ve been promoted without Ndiyae before. I'd like to think we'll get promoted without Ndiyae again.

Its true though if he's not given parachute money to buy some quality players in in the championship he'll struggle as would any manager.

 

[Champagneblade]

Also, despite the injuries. What we are actually seeing the is the glass ceiling of football and what you need at this level is a serious amount of investment just to hang in the Premier League. Look at Forest they had to sign a 100 players just to scrape themselves away from the relegation.

So in some respects it's not Hecky or even PA. It's the obscene financial landscape of the Premier League.

Can't say I'm a massive fan of American sports, and I know some things are simply unworkable here, but I do admire the whole draft concept in American Football which basically says "you were rubbish this year, so in order to not create this huge neverending disparity we're giving you first pick of the next crop of talent."

I admire the desire to at least want to make things fair, to some degree.

Here, it's a case of "you already have a massive advantage, but there's been a few upsets so we'll give you 5 subs."

Then it's "still seeing those upsets. The tv fans are not liking this, seeing their team still lose. We'll subscribe to infinite amounts of added time, so there are plenty of minutes to redress the balance with these plucky teams."

Just trying to wrack my brains as to what they could next do. Maybe kick ons instead of throw ins? So instead of some fullback, you've got a set piece expert like Ward-Prowse or Maddison restarting play. Maybe that would help them more?

 

[Champagneblade]

You think he’s going to get us anywhere near the promotion picture without Ndiaye?

We don’t even have a style of play for a start. His genius and mercurial ability is why we are where we are now.

Hecky can't be denied credit from all side though, can he?

Who nurtures Ndiaye through the U23s? Who gave him his debut before contract talks intervened? Who settled on a style, post-Gibbs-White that brought the best out of him?

If you're saying that there was an over-reliance on Ndiaye then we should at least acknowledge who helped him grow into such a player.

Hecky would have wanted to keep him. The fact he's been forced to deal without him is due to factors beyond his control.

But let's give the man credit.

 

[Tom Bott]

Bielsa made the club like Wilder did.

Head coach Marcelo Bielsa has been sacked by Leeds United after a run of poor form that saw his side suffer several heavy defeats.
( February 2022)

I think he’s comparing him to Farke? He must be.

I'm not comparing any manager in particular, though if you look at the win ratio of Hecky and Bielsa they are similar.


The point is.

People say we should sack Hecky for X Y or Z reasons.

Leeds had the same with Bielsa, they sacked him.

How did that turn out ???


Leeds have since had 4 new management teams and got relegated anyway.

Cost ?? 12 million 15 million ??

 

[Tom Bott]

So who's this magic "better than Hecky" manager that's going to join the Blades whilst we haven't got 2 pennies to rub together?

Super Cisco, got Watford promoted and available for very little money.

He'll have us playing Barcelona ball too - win - win.......

Then after three months, we can sack him and get some assistant German coach in - think Jurgen Klopp style.

By then we will back in the championship, thinking, maybe we should have just stuck with Hecky.

 

[Bladezz]

He failed at both.

Watford were further away than when he arrived.

At Boro he lasted about a year and when Carrick took over they immediately saw an uptick and solidified a play off place. They were near the bottom when Wilder arrived.

Any talk or Wilder is wiping out anything in the past three years and hoping he can roll back to 2019/20.

He’s had no success since. Sacked after a year at one place and not retained by the other after what could be described as an unsuccessful trial period.

He was great for us overall but he’s not enhanced his reputation since he left.

A little research will disprove most of what you think.

Head coach Marcelo Bielsa has been sacked by Leeds United after a run of poor form that saw his side suffer several heavy defeats.
( February 2022)




I'm not comparing any manager in particular, though if you look at the win ratio of Hecky and Bielsa they are similar.


The point is.

People say we should sack Hecky for X Y or Z reasons.

Leeds had the same with Bielsa, they sacked him.

How did that turn out ???


Leeds have since had 4 new management teams and got relegated anyway.

Cost ?? 12 million 15 million ??

Exactly they should have done everything to keep Bielsa. They would have him back in a heart beat.

 

[Bladezz]

W

Watford had Choudhury, Joao Pedro, Kienan Davis & Sarr with him. You can’t compare their current team to last seasons he was rubbish there & couldn’t get the best out of them. That came off the back of a terrible time with Boro during that season.

His stock isn’t high at the moment hence why he was linked to League one jobs in the summer.

If we were to sack Hecky I think you’re likely to see Wilder come back but I don’t think it’s the right thing for us or him.

One season with Wilder Pedro turned to a £35m player and Sarr to a £20m player.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Head coach Marcelo Bielsa has been sacked by Leeds United after a run of poor form that saw his side suffer several heavy defeats.
( February 2022)




I'm not comparing any manager in particular, though if you look at the win ratio of Hecky and Bielsa they are similar.


The point is.

People say we should sack Hecky for X Y or Z reasons.

Leeds had the same with Bielsa, they sacked him.

How did that turn out ???


Leeds have since had 4 new management teams and got relegated anyway.

Cost ?? 12 million 15 million ??

Should United have kept Adkins?

 

[Carlton Blade]

One season with Wilder Pedro turned to a £35m player and Sarr to a £20m player.

Watford turned down £40m for Sarr 2 seasons ago
They turned down £40m from Newcastle for Pedro

 

[Carlton Blade]

11 games with Wilder left Watford worse than they started and with Wilder ranting for 6 minutes about how much he hated their players

 

[Rodley]

Head coach Marcelo Bielsa has been sacked by Leeds United after a run of poor form that saw his side suffer several heavy defeats.
( February 2022)




I'm not comparing any manager in particular, though if you look at the win ratio of Hecky and Bielsa they are similar.


The point is.

People say we should sack Hecky for X Y or Z reasons.

Leeds had the same with Bielsa, they sacked him.

How did that turn out ???


Leeds have since had 4 new management teams and got relegated anyway.

Cost ?? 12 million 15 million ??

Comparing Hecky to Bielsa

 

[finlaytheblade]

Can't say I'm a massive fan of American sports, and I know some things are simply unworkable here, but I do admire the whole draft concept in American Football which basically says "you were rubbish this year, so in order to not create this huge neverending disparity we're giving you first pick of the next crop of talent."

I admire the desire to at least want to make things fair, to some degree.

Here, it's a case of "you already have a massive advantage, but there's been a few upsets so we'll give you 5 subs."

Then it's "still seeing those upsets. The tv fans are not liking this, seeing their team still lose. We'll subscribe to infinite amounts of added time, so there are plenty of minutes to redress the balance with these plucky teams."

Just trying to wrack my brains as to what they could next do. Maybe kick ons instead of throw ins? So instead of some fullback, you've got a set piece expert like Ward-Prowse or Maddison restarting play. Maybe that would help them more?

Agree Champs! All these changers help the wealthy clubs get stronger at the expense of the rest.
5 subs, extra minutes all gives the clubs with the strongest bench an advantage . Very frustrating for clubs like us who run there clubs trying not to get into financial difficulties.
Go back 60 years and any top division club could win things! Just about impossible now.

 

[billyblademan]

11 games with Wilder left Watford worse than they started and with Wilder ranting for 6 minutes about how much he hated their players

He's fast becoming a caricature of himself. Buckle up...

 

[Slim Man]

Hecky can't be denied credit from all side though, can he?

Who nurtures Ndiaye through the U23s? Who gave him his debut before contract talks intervened? Who settled on a style, post-Gibbs-White that brought the best out of him?

If you're saying that there was an over-reliance on Ndiaye then we should at least acknowledge who helped him grow into such a player.

Hecky would have wanted to keep him. The fact he's been forced to deal without him is due to factors beyond his control.

But let's give the man credit.

Nope, he deserves credit for coaching him along. He's clearly a very talented coach of young talent. Much with how he brought McAtee through after his slow start.

Regarding the season as a whole - Luckily for him he could revert to type with a spine of players who knew this system like the back of their hand. It was essentially Wilderball lite.

Hecky tactically is miles off it. People would see things in the stands (Norwood needing dropping for Doyle as one of many examples) and it would be weeks before Hecky would change it. His subs are horrendous. We have no style of play. There is no innovation or variation.

I like him, I just don't think without a European level attacking talent like Ndiaye we will be able to go up with him at the helm next season. I just think his deficiencies are being shown up and making what was quite obvious last season blaringly obvious with hindsight.

 

[Tom Bott]

Should United have kept Adkins?

Was he an upgrade on his predecessor - Nigel Clough ?

Did we improve by changing manager ?

When we brought in Slavisa did things improve ?

 

[Carlton Blade]

Was he an upgrade on his predecessor - Nigel Clough ?

Did we improve by changing manager ?

When we brought in Slavisa did things improve ?

I'm not advocating anything. Just pointing out that sticking with the manager is not always the right decision

 

[Tom Bott]

Comparing Hecky to Bielsa

Based on actual figures rather than assumptions. After all, winning is all that matters.

TEAM	FROM	TO	GAMES	WON	DRAWN	LOST
Sheff Utd	25 Nov, 2021	Present	92	48	17	27

Leeds

15 Jun, 2018

28 Feb, 2022

170

80

33

57

Let's see what Steve Cooper has achieved with Florist.

Nottm Forest

21 Sep, 2021

Present

99

41

25

33

Exactly they should have done everything to keep Bielsa. They would have him back in a heart beat.

 

[Rodley]

Based on actual figures rather than assumptions. After all, winning is all that matters.

TEAM	FROM	TO	GAMES	WON	DRAWN	LOST
Sheff Utd	25 Nov, 2021	Present	92	48	17	27

Leeds

15 Jun, 2018

28 Feb, 2022

170

80

33

57

Let's see what Steve Cooper has achieved with Florist.

Nottm Forest

21 Sep, 2021

Present

99

41

25

33

What weighting are you applying to the level the club was at, the quality of the squad at that level, the transfer budget in each of the seasons, etc?

If you’re genuinely saying Hecky is a better manager than Bielsa, that’s madness.

 

[Tom Bott]

If you’re genuinely saying Hecky is a better manager than Bielsa, that’s madness.

Where have I said anything remotely like that ?
I have merely shown that sacking managers with similar win ratio's by clubs in similar predicaments can end in the same level of disaster.

Though as it has cost Leeds 12/15 ? million to appoint 4 new managers.

We might be better spending such a sum ( if we have it) on some new defenders or leaders on the pitch,
preferably both.

 

[Rodley]

Where have I said anything remotely like that ?
I have merely shown that sacking managers with similar win ratio's by clubs in similar predicaments can end in the same level of disaster.

Though as it has cost Leeds 12/15 ? million to appoint 4 new managers.

We might be better spending such a sum ( if we have it) on some new defenders or leaders on the pitch,
preferably both.

I don’t think the overall win ratio is particularly relevant though. It’s just a means to shoehorn Bielsa and Cooper into the discussion about Hecky’s current efficacy.

I imagine Wilders win ratio at SUFC was one of the best, but he’d lost his way in that last season. Nigel Adkins has a better career win ratio than Heckingbottom. He’s not a better manager, it’s meaningless without taking into account context, expectations and resources.

 

[Champagneblade]

A little research will disprove most of what you think.

1. Watford were further away than when he arrived.

- arrived when Watford were 4 points adrift of 6th. Ended the season 12 points behind 6th

2. At Boro he lasted about a year and when Carrick took over they immediately saw an uptick and solidified a play off place. They were near the bottom when Wilder left.

- Hired 7th Nov 2021. Fired 3rd Oct 2022. 22nd when fired. Boro finished 4th after Carrick was appointed.

Even the BBC could fact check what I said

 

[Tom Bott]

Boro finished 4th after Carrick was appointed.

16th though now, sack him.

 

[Chimpan-A]

Say what you like about Hecky’s football management, but he is excellent as Ian Huntley in “Maxine”, showing on Netflix now.

 

[VictoryBlade]

Wasn’t the plan to bring in young, inexperienced players who would then form the basis of next season’s Championship side ?
If that was/is the case then getting rid of him and replacing him with someone who can do what you wish for, with all the resultant cost that involves, seems unrealistic.
I may be wrong but I don’t think this squad is as bad as some make out. Yes we will struggle, especially with all the injuries, but we may not be quite so embarrassing as we have been recently.

But Why all the injuries? Hecky has not got a good record on this!

 

[Champagneblade]

But Why all the injuries? Hecky has not got a good record on this!

I'd tend to agree. Though a very high portion have come in matches. I don't know how you avoid it when a situation arises and it leads to an injury.

This week - Egan's injury from the game against West Ham has put him out. Basham a freak no contact injury in the game against Fulham. Even Davies, time had been called on training and he decided to have one last shot and kicked the floor, not so different to Lowe standing on a sprinkler head. Hecky can't be responsible for someone being careless.

 

[BladeInIreland]

He just called them United. Has to go for me.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

He just called them United. Has to go for me.

Annoyed me more than it probably should.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The only way to answer it.

Not sure what more people expect from him/this squad. They need to get into real world.

I expect any team that's gained promotion from the Championship to be able to compete.
Either give it a go trying to win matches (like Burnley and Norwich from the other year) and make it tough for the opposition (like Luton).
Luton have worse players than us and have spent less than us but check their stats, they regularly have attacks and are very competitve.

We have bought upper level Championship players......so in general it should be like watching a Championship team play a PL team in the cup.

However for some reason we start matches in damage limitation mode and look like a league 1 side playing a PL team.
Newcastle could play away at any league 1 club and there's no way they would beat any league 1 team 8-0.
In our game it wasn't even a case of being one of them days when all their shots are flying in.
With better finishing Newcastle could have easily beat us 10 or 11-0.

I expected these players to probably be relegated in the low 30's points
however for some reason Hecky seems to have turned us into the worse team that's ever played in the PL for 30 years.
Really think we'll struggle to finish with 15 pints under Hecky, dread to think we might not even get double figures (10 points).

If we lose...the Blades DNA is we go down fighting, even with the crappest players around, we should always be organanised
and give 100%, it's not too much to ask. It's as though our manager has already accepted relegation and put up the white flag.

 

[Sheffsteel]

You think he’s going to get us anywhere near the promotion picture without Ndiaye?

We don’t even have a style of play for a start. His genius and mercurial ability is why we are where we are now.

Very much agree.

It's not really been mentioned but PL and Championship football are like 2 different sports.

Slav has the principles of building a PL style team. He believes in pass and move, everyone needs to be comfortable in possession.
We controlled games under Slav but we were a bit like Swansea, loads of possession, some nice short passing
but the passing was too slow, we over passed, so there was little penetration. Also the defence...mainly Egan and Robinson were too slow.
So we often looked vulnerable when the defence pushed up to the half way line.

Hecky replaced Slav and made us revert to a mixed, more direct style that would work better in the Championship.
It's no big deal losing possession in the 2nd tier because you can quickly expect it back.
Where as in the PL, the ball must be more treasured, if you lose the ball, you might not get it back for 3 or 4 minutes.
Hecky was pragmatic, quite negative in the Championship. We didn't have much of a style, almost every match we passed it around well for 10 minutes
but then would have 15 minute spells where for some weird reason the whole team had zero composure and we couldn't string 3 passes together.

Hecky's main tactics were
1: Give the ball to Norwood who would try ambition long range passing, this often gave the ball away but sometimes was a great pass.
Here's me thinking why don't we build up attacks through midfield or at least see some midfielder interplay.
2: Rely on the individual brilliance of N'Diaye who could score from nothing
3: When in front...park the bus for the last 20 minutes of every match. I've mentioned that Egan and Robinson can get caught out for pace
but when they defend deep, defending the box then our defence was really good, under constant pressure but Wes didn't have many saves to make.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Hecky can't be denied credit from all side though, can he?

Who nurtures Ndiaye through the U23s? Who gave him his debut before contract talks intervened? Who settled on a style, post-Gibbs-White that brought the best out of him?

If you're saying that there was an over-reliance on Ndiaye then we should at least acknowledge who helped him grow into such a player.

Hecky would have wanted to keep him. The fact he's been forced to deal without him is due to factors beyond his control.

But let's give the man credit.

Of course Hecky deserves credit.
Did a brilliant job building up N'Diaye and a good job getting us promoted.
Some say he did a brilliant job but that's not correct.

When we were promoted under Wilder...that was a brilliant job because he had weaker players, smaller budget and think the bookied predicted mid table, so promotion was a surprise for most people.

Where as with the Hecky promotion side, we were one of the pre-season favourites, best squads and one of the bigger budgets.
I had reservations about the way we won but our finances were so fragile last season that it was always about the result at any cost.
Last season we simply had to get promoted, so Hecky deserves thanks and respect for saving us.