Flat atmosphere on the Kop

[TJB.]

I'm sure smartphones have a lot to do with it. At any given time about half the crowd are gazing into their phones or taking photos as opposed to watching the match.

This is partially connected to the influence and popularity of betting apps. Lots of people who sit around me are checking their acca's every five minutes.

It's not just that, of course. Some people can't go 90 minutes without checking Facebook or Twitter. I'll admit that I sometimes have a gander, but I'm trying to wean myself off it. I've paid for a game so I should be watching it.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'm sure smartphones have a lot to do with it. At any given time about half the crowd are gazing into their phones or taking photos as opposed to watching the match.

What about those who miss the last ten minutes of the first half and the first ten of the second half so they don't starve to death, dehydrate or piss themselves?

 

[bromtom]

This is partially connected to the influence and popularity of betting apps. Lots of people who sit around me are checking their acca's every five minutes.

It's not just that, of course. Some people can't go 90 minutes without checking Facebook or Twitter. I'll admit that I sometimes have a gander, but I'm trying to wean myself off it. I've paid for a game so I should be watching it.

Fucked most social media off last year and it's great. This and Instagram are all I use, and Instagram is barely social, it's just pictures so it's nice to look at depending on who you follow.

When it comes to match day, I take a photo when I sit down (like a sort of 'collect them all' thing in my camera roll) and then put the bloody thing away.

As you say, you've paid good money, pay attention to what you've bought. You wouldn't check what Samantha is saying about her ex on Facebook during Avengers in the cinema, have a bit of self control and leave it in your pocket until full time.

 

[Dkc]

They are banned in cinemas

 

[The Jackdaw]

Most people who complain about the atmosphere don’t actually do anything to help the atmosphere.

 

[borg elite]

I think they would if match day prices had not been increased this season. Haven't we sold the same number of season tickets (or even more) than last season? That alone suggests non season tickets holders find match day prices too high. Accounts for the drop in attendance.

We're a midtable Championship team. People aren't going to be busting a gut to go and see us play the likes of Birmingham and Reading on a Tuesday night.

 

[I should coco]

I may be wrong

A good guess based on past experience

it seems the most vociferous ( pun intended ) critics are on the Kop themselves.

For once though you are correct. I sit bang in the middle of the Kop and me and 4-5 close by, try and pick up on songs from the back. Occassionally we do just enough to add to the noise and it spreads below us and several thousand join in. Sadly most of the time it is just the 50 at the back and our motley little gang, whilst all around us people eat pies, play with their phones or pick their noses. Occassioanlly you can spot someone watching the match.

Don't forget, we're all wankers a the Lane.

 

[Sean Thornton]

A good guess based on past experience



For once though you are correct. I sit bang in the middle of the Kop and me and 4-5 close by, try and pick up on songs from the back. Occassionally we do just enough to add to the noise and it spreads below us and several thousand join in. Sadly most of the time it is just the 50 at the back and our motley little gang, whilst all around us people eat pies, play with their phones or pick their noses. Occassioanlly you can spot someone watching the match.

Don't forget, we're all wankers a the Lane.

 

[Rodley]

Atmosphere does not just = singing.

Agreed, look at Bundesliga and Bundesliga 2 games.

 

[1980]

Atmosphere as a general rule of thumb in this country tends to be reactive, not proactive. Attempts to improve matchday atmosphere such as the use of drums, clappers and the formation of ultras groups (like Palace have) are often greeted with derision and accusations of being tinpot. Widespread, organic, non-stop generation of atmosphere just doesn't tend to happen anymore for a variety of reasons; many have already been stated.

Sorry to butt in - but it is that time of the season again.

I like to think that The Den still retains some of that old fashioned organic support you speak of. Okay, it isn't like the days of Cold Blow Lane, but for modern football is still pretty partisan and in an organic way.

The reason I think this is, is because Millwall have never, ever, had any kind of sustained success. So, what you are left with is a fanbase made up of 'hardcore' fans.

And they would have to be pretty hardcore, as not only have we never had any sustained success, but we are also surrounded by much bigger and more attractive clubs to support - our catchment area is literally the neighbourhoods of Bermondsey, Deptford, Rotherhithe, New Cross, Peckham and Walworth. Plus we have the worst fan reputation in English football. I mean, you must really want to support Millwall to, erm, support Millwall. I would argue that 95% of the people in the home stands can all trace their roots back to docklands London, either in the neighbourhoods mentioned or from the old EastEnd communities just over the river & where the club was born.

What I am saying is that we have never been diluted as a fanbase. I think more and more clubs in the top half of the football pyramid have. Their fanbases are now made up of not only hardcore fans, but by more affluent supporters, especially families attracted by football's modern image. In SE London those people go to Palace or Charlton; or Chelsea/Arsenal/West Ham if they can afford it / get tickets.

And you are less likely to burst into song or swear at the ref / opposition if you are sat next to a nice family eating their popcorn (hello West Ham!).

At The Den our stewards have a pretty lax attitude to swearing or sitting. In fact, the club has a policy of sit where you like in a block - no looking for 'YOUR' seat. There is no your seat. This means mates and family get to sit together more easily, which I think helps with this creating an 'organic' atmosphere you speak of.

No doubt you will look left and right from the away stand on Saturday and sneer at the pantomime put on for you. Mostly young men playing at parodying the old Millwall dockers. Yes, it is a bit silly. But, look a bit closer, they are all standing, it looks a bit like an old fashioned terrace scene, they are swearing and singing together and look like they are having a laugh. And if it turns into a bit of a firey game the whole ground will begin to look like that. And if you tut or sneer at them, well then ask yourself how do you create a good atmosphere if it needs to be a bit sensible, a bit controlled.

 

[Tezza1889]

I may be wrong but it seems the most vociferous ( pun intended ) critics are on the Kop themselves.

Well the person who’s started this thread can give themselves a pat on the back tonight, because football heaven opened with this as a story about United, who are I think 2 points? Off the top of the league ...

Well done for putting a negative out there when the team deserve recognition mate, well done...

 

[Ricky]

I hope it gets maximum negative publicity and recognition. It needs it. People need to wake up.

It's a good subject to pick up on FH, for all clubs in the area, but they won't.

 

[SUFCinks]

I hope it gets maximum negative publicity and recognition. It needs it. People need to wake up.

It's a good subject to pick up on FH, for all clubs in the area, but they won't.

Agree. last thing we want to do is bury our heads in the sand a keep pretending its decent when the reality is it's flat and underwhelming.

It needs actioning and should be a priority. A good atmosphere is why you go to a match, to support your team. Otherwise we may as well sit at home and watch it on the tele.

I think the drop in attendance is all down to the flat atmosphere, a snowball effect. Paying £20-30 to sit in the cold/wind/rain in a flat atmosphere on a shitty plastic chair with shitty overpriced beer is not that appealing when you can watch it on the tele in the comfort of your home for free.

 

[Rodley]

Agree. last thing we want to do is bury our heads in the sand a keep pretending its decent when the reality is it's flat and underwhelming.

It needs actioning and should be a priority. A good atmosphere is why you go to a match, to support your team. Otherwise we may as well sit at home and watch it on the tele.

I think the drop in attendance is all down to the flat atmosphere, a snowball effect. Paying £20-30 to sit in the cold/wind/rain in a flat atmosphere on a shitty plastic chair with shitty overpriced beer is not that appealing when you can watch it on the tele in the comfort of your home for free.

Agreed. It’s a poor atmosphere. The excuses have run out about no away fans.

 

[Topplayersleave]

The atmosphere is flat at most games of football nowadays "It's not just our shit fans" it's shit fans everywhere.

Football is boring, let's be right, it is. There's barely enough happens in 90 minutes to keep you awake let along generate an atmosphere.
Most people when asked why they continue to go to games say "It's to see some mates and have a few pints and a laugh"
They seem to be unaware that they could still do this without the football

The only time an atmosphere gets generated is a local derby or when a team is the underdog. This is the same all over the country.

Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City can't create an atmosphere at all unless they're playing Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid or PSG or in their local derbies.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Get t’cheerleaders in?

 

[bromtom]

The atmosphere is flat at most games of football nowadays "It's not just our shit fans" it's shit fans everywhere.

Football is boring, let's be right, it is. There's barely enough happens in 90 minutes to keep you awake let along generate an atmosphere.
Most people when asked why they continue to go to games say "It's to see some mates and have a few pints and a laugh"
They seem to be unaware that they could still do this without the football

The only time an atmosphere gets generated is a local derby or when a team is the underdog. This is the same all over the country.

Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City can't create an atmosphere at all unless they're playing Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid or PSG or in their local derbies.

Couldn't disagree more. Some football is boring, but football in general isn't.

I watch a metric shit ton of football, and I wouldn't put the time in if it bored me, it's not like I don't have other responsibilities and hobbies.

I also don't drink at or before the match, and United can keep me entertained plenty, we are boring very rarely.

 

[Rodders]

Couldn't disagree more. Some football is boring, but football in general isn't.

I watch a metric shit ton of football, and I wouldn't put the time in if it bored me, it's not like I don't have other responsibilities and hobbies.

I also don't drink at or before the match, and United can keep me entertained plenty, we are boring very rarely.

I wouldn’t say boring is the word but I think there is some truth on that football itself has changed; the game is more “technical” - gone are the days of crunching tackles to get the fans off their seats, the game itself just isn’t the blood and thunder spectacle it used to be. There isn’t the physical battle on the pitch that leads to the feeling of being part of a tribe going to war at 3pm, just watching some wealthy blokes pass a ball around very well until the other team intercepts it cleanly.
I don’t think this is the sole reason but I think it’s a contributor.

 

[shreds1975]

Here's my take on it.

http://aunitedview.blogspot.com/2018/09/the-entitled-fans.html

The one thing it didn't mention was those looking down at their phones all match, like the lad next to me the other week who did nothing but refresh his in play bets for 90 minutes.

I think we need to recognise the problem, but also take comfort in that it isn't just confined to us.

 

[Dkc]

Here's my take on it.

http://aunitedview.blogspot.com/2018/09/the-entitled-fans.html

The one thing it didn't mention was those looking down at their phones all match, like the lad next to me the other week who did nothing but refresh his in play bets for 90 minutes.

I think we need to recognise the problem, but also take comfort in that it isn't just confined to us.

Aside from banning phones there's not much we can do about this problem. I must admit that the temptation to check your phone is huge during a game (I'll check mine a few times) and we can't criticize people for it. Smartphones have been around for well over a decade, but it seems like each year there are more apps that demand our attention. If you're on your phone you're less likely to pick up on a chant - you're not even looking at what's going on on the pitch.

Even though Ricky's plan for a singing section on the BLUT didn't take off I don't think we should give up on the idea of an organised singing section. At the end of this season, perhaps the top of rows E and F could be designated as singing areas. I wouldn't want a band but we need some characters to rouse the crowd. In the old days there were blokes who'd have a go at you if you were in the top sections of the kop and didn't sing.

 

[Ricky]

There's a group of lads near me who spend all game on and off their fucking phones.

No doubt it's part of the problem but it's also a symptom as well as a cause. It results from other factors that contribute to the stagnant, unexciting spectacle that it's become. If there's no buzz, people will feel more enabled to get their phones out. Then the more people get their phones out, the worse it gets. Vicious circle.

 

[Ricky]

Even though Ricky's plan for a singing section on the BLUT didn't take off I don't think we should give up on the idea of an organised singing section. At the end of this season, perhaps the top of rows E and F could be designated as singing areas. I wouldn't want a band but we need some characters to rouse the crowd. In the old days there were blokes who'd have a go at you if you were in the top sections of the kop and didn't sing.

Organisation remains the only solution. As much as the really cool Blades might not like it.

I increasingly feel that our fans, and our club are not worth an ounce of my effort. Hopefully someone else much luckier than me tries something, but I don't expect anything of the sort. Nowhere near enough care about it. The club certainly don't.

It's ridiculous that all it would take on the Kop is to move about 100 useless fuckers at the back and replace them with those who can be arsed to sing. But obviously it's not an option! People simply won't be moved from their ST seats (which are often empty anyway where I am...) so the only option I can think of is to get people piling in the aisles/steps at the side, but numbers would be very limited.

 

[@samjohnson77]

Can people remember the roar the ground used to generate during our promotion season after the full time whistle when the players walked towards the Kop. Incredible. Had that for 80% of that season even after draws or the occasional defeat. This should be standard practice.

 

[Dkc]

We could always pipe crowd noise through the speakers like they do at West Ham...

 

[alcoblade]

Well the person who’s started this thread can give themselves a pat on the back tonight, because football heaven opened with this as a story about United, who are I think 2 points? Off the top of the league ...

Well done for putting a negative out there when the team deserve recognition mate, well done...

Perhaps the players are wondering how good they could be with a vociferous crowd behind them?

 

[alcoblade]

We could always pipe crowd noise through the speakers like they do at West Ham...

They did it at Swillsborough when they got knocked out of Europe by that German village team.

 

[nicksufc]

Here's my take on it.

http://aunitedview.blogspot.com/2018/09/the-entitled-fans.html

The one thing it didn't mention was those looking down at their phones all match, like the lad next to me the other week who did nothing but refresh his in play bets for 90 minutes.

I think we need to recognise the problem, but also take comfort in that it isn't just confined to us.

That's a good piece and it gets pretty close to the crux of the issue. The shocking atmosphere in the Lane and other grounds is more because of a change in culture than anything else. People no longer go there to sing and create a good atmosphere: they're distracted by their phones, half-interested, expecting to be entertained.

I'm trying not to look at it through rose-tinted glasses, but I never remember the atmosphere being as bad as this even 10 years ago. I feel like it started to go downhill in around 2010 and has never really recovered - you could probably plot it on a graph going the opposite way to the popularity of in-play betting, social media and ticket prices.

 

[Rodley]

Do they not have smart phones and in play betting in the Bundesliga or continental Europe then?

THERES BARELY ANY YOUNG PEOPLE (15-25 year olds) IN THE GROUND!

 

[Dkc]

I suppose we could print a few leaflets and hand them out, something like this:

SING UP BLADES FANS


A decent atmosphere lifts the team and lifts us all. Let’s make the atmosphere the best it can be.


Those who want to sing, chant, stand and add to the atmosphere, go on the top 10 rows of Gangways E, F and G. Please avoid this area if you want to sit and stay quiet.


Please try to stay off your phone. Nothing wrong with taking a few photos but you’re here to support your team not update your status. Plenty of time for that after the final whistle.


If you don’t know the words, just ask


SING UP SHOREHAM


UTB​

 

[Rodley]

Just need a safe standing area. Need to give the young uns and young at heart somewhere to have a sing song. No fucker will be on their phone if the atmosphere is rocking.