Safe Standing and Atmosphere

[ilovesufc]

The answer is a bit in the middle. The underlying terrace remains from the previous Kop, but as I understand it they poured cement on to fill in every second step to create rows for seating, rather than standing. You can see the work for that on this photo – there are wooden boards braced up against the risers of some terrace steps in order to pour cement onto the step behind the boards up to the level of the next step, i.e. to turn two steps of c. 325mm depth into one of c. 650mm depth. It’s one of the reasons why there’s a bit of variation on the Kop depending on which row you sit (or now stand) on.

View attachment 221579

Interesting pic. This is the very reason that installing safe standing onto the kop will be rubbish for most people apart from the very tallest. The rake is so poor due to exactly what they did here. When standing, even at 5'8" I struggle to see a thing. Completely inclusive. And badly thought through (or basically not thought through at all).

 

[Nick Jansky]

I genuinely can't sit with my back against the seat and not have my knees shredded by the seat in front. Its a terrace wirh seats bolted on. It's not fit for purpose.

Isn’t that to do with arse size rather than height?

 

[mattbianco1]

How's the safe standing on the kop then?

I much prefer to stand at away games and feel safe standing is the right way forward. However...

The problem with retrofitting it at old grounds is that that space is still so tight, safe standing doesn't provide any more space and with these tighter stands, sitting down is probably more comfortable.
Ipswich last week, they had the safe standing bars, but your knees are still cut to hell from the seat Infront.

These new grounds and the German grounds I've been to, there's a lot more legroom between you and the seat in front providing a much more comfortable experience.. they also build the stands with a steeper rake so if you don't wish to stand, you can still usually see if the people Infront are standing.

Just wondering how the experience on the kop is so far?
They've installed them in an area where most people stand anyway so would expect most are happy

 

[Harry's Game]

I can’t say I noticed much difference in the atmosphere during the game, but that might have been down to the horrendous weather and horrendous performance

 

[Davalon]

How's the safe standing on the kop then?

I much prefer to stand at away games and feel safe standing is the right way forward. However...

The problem with retrofitting it at old grounds is that that space is still so tight, safe standing doesn't provide any more space and with these tighter stands, sitting down is probably more comfortable.
Ipswich last week, they had the safe standing bars, but your knees are still cut to hell from the seat Infront.

These new grounds and the German grounds I've been to, there's a lot more legroom between you and the seat in front providing a much more comfortable experience.. they also build the stands with a steeper rake so if you don't wish to stand, you can still usually see if the people Infront are standing.

Just wondering how the experience on the kop is so far?
They've installed them in an area where most people stand anyway so would expect most are happy

Made me smile yesterday that after having threats of reduced allocations on the Kop due to too many standing at the back, there were notable gaps in the safe standing area towards the SS side.

 

[Lower Drop Blade]

Moved out of safe standing as I would rather sit, don't know why I bothered looked round to our bit on SS side of kop and loads sat down anyways

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

Moved out of safe standing as I would rather sit, don't know why I bothered looked round to our bit on SS side of kop and loads sat down anyways

I enjoyed my convenient rail to lean on.

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

The rails are fine, not much to say really

It does limit mobility though, its harder to squeeze past. Expect to rub your groin on the rail regularly. It's harder to climb up or down rows too

It barely made any difference yesterday atmosphere wise. It was never going to be transformative, because we have an extremely low energy fanbase and there's barely even demand for the 3000 standing spaces. But I still expected some sort of improvement, even if for one game

I guess we'll be able to judge it better when more people have moved seats and we start winning again

 

[nopigfansintown]

How's the safe standing on the kop then?

I much prefer to stand at away games and feel safe standing is the right way forward. However...

The problem with retrofitting it at old grounds is that that space is still so tight, safe standing doesn't provide any more space and with these tighter stands, sitting down is probably more comfortable.
Ipswich last week, they had the safe standing bars, but your knees are still cut to hell from the seat Infront.

These new grounds and the German grounds I've been to, there's a lot more legroom between you and the seat in front providing a much more comfortable experience.. they also build the stands with a steeper rake so if you don't wish to stand, you can still usually see if the people Infront are standing.

Just wondering how the experience on the kop is so far?
They've installed them in an area where most people stand anyway so would expect most are happy

I'm six foot three and found it far better than sitting (row QQ). The metal bar was at a nice height and in line with the back of the chair in front. Just far enough back to not intrude on their potentially wanting to sit down (unlikely I know). Passing people mid match is as bad as it has always been (I got in a bit late) but standing at your seat during the match is a big improvement in comfort. I'm not great on my feet and I felt a lot better post match than I usually do despite the extra investment in energy. I leant on the bar a lot. I think shorter people might have a worse experience due to the height of the bar.

 

[metalblade]

I'm seriously thinking of moving from the kop as my 70yr old knees get cut into by the back of the seat in front. I've always had long legs so it is very cramped for me, not sure standing for a couple of hours would help either. Would I be able to move to the John st stand or do you have to take a brat with you?

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

Moved out of safe standing as I would rather sit, don't know why I bothered looked round to our bit on SS side of kop and loads sat down anyways

So I take it that the rail doesn’t restrict view if you're sat down? I sit in the Bramall Lane upper corner, just curious.

 

[Lower Drop Blade]

So I take it that the rail doesn’t restrict view if you're sat down? I sit in the Bramall Lane upper corner, just curious.

No by looks of it nice arn rest if you lean forward

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

No by looks of it nice arn rest if you lean forward

What about if you have kids with you? If they’re sat down would the rail obstruct their view? Assuming the person in front isn’t stood up.

 

[BladeByChoice]

Moved out of safe standing as I would rather sit, don't know why I bothered looked round to our bit on SS side of kop and loads sat down anyways

Don't forget it's now an approved and designated safe standing area, you can choose to sit but you don't have the right to complain if you do sit and the person in front of you stands.

Better to move if you don't want to stand all game.

 

[Lower Drop Blade]

What about if you have kids with you? If they’re sat down would the rail obstruct their view? Assuming the person in front isn’t stood up.

No more than before

 

[Broomhall Blade]

Cracking
My ear drums still haven't recovered.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

I'm six foot three and found it far better than sitting (row QQ). The metal bar was at a nice height and in line with the back of the chair in front. Just far enough back to not intrude on their potentially wanting to sit down (unlikely I know). Passing people mid match is as bad as it has always been (I got in a bit late) but standing at your seat during the match is a big improvement in comfort. I'm not great on my feet and I felt a lot better post match than I usually do despite the extra investment in energy. I leant on the bar a lot. I think shorter people might have a worse experience due to the height of the bar.

This hadn't crossed my mind before, but does this standing implementation make watching the game harder for the shorter folks? I guess height differences aren't so pronounced when you're sat down. Surely a discount needs offering if you get a standing season ticket behind a giraffe? Or perhaps get the height of every new standing season ticket applicant and factor it in to the seat allocation? Must be a nightmare for any kids in the standing section.

 

[nopigfansintown]

This hadn't crossed my mind before, but does this standing implementation make watching the game harder for the shorter folks? I guess height differences aren't so pronounced when you're sat down. Surely a discount needs offering if you get a standing season ticket behind a giraffe? Or perhaps get the height of every new standing season ticket applicant and factor it in to the seat allocation? Must be a nightmare for any kids in the standing section.

The club recommends that you don't stand if you're shorten than 5 '4.

 

[Harry's Game]

I guess we'll be able to judge it better when more people have moved seats and we start winning again

We will have to wait some time to Judge it then..

 

[Northyorksblade]

I'm seriously thinking of moving from the kop as my 70yr old knees get cut into by the back of the seat in front. I've always had long legs so it is very cramped for me, not sure standing for a couple of hours would help either. Would I be able to move to the John st stand or do you have to take a brat with you?

Sorry to inform you that my knees get cut into on John Street. Right where my new knee joint is. so not sure if there's any more room.
Also, when the bloke in front leans back, I'm very tempted to clip him round the ear, but the pain in my knee is too much.

 

[Linz]

Having sat on all the stands, the South Stand offers the best in terms of leg room. Not as generous as when we had wooden seats, mind.

 

[Keen Blade]

Having sat on all the stands, the South Stand offers the best in terms of leg room. Not as generous as when we had wooden seats, mind.

I haven't measured the front to back distance in the seats , but - imo - the BLUT is superior to any other stand due to its far steeper rake.
You are so much higher than the person in front that your knees have unlimited space in front of them.
So the oldest stand at the Lane - built almost 60 years ago - is still the best , not only for the incomparably high - yet laterally proximate - view , but also for seating comfort.

 

[Keen Blade]

On the safe-standing issue , it seems that area on the kop becomes unavailable before any others.

Anyone know whether it's full of ST holders or is it just that the walk-ups prefer to be high , even if it means being wide on the kop wings ?

 

[S64 Blade]

Yeah I noticed this.

Pretty pointless not selling tickets there. Seems like we are doing the usual trick of making it as complicated as possible.

 

[XH536]

I’m noticing safe standing/rail seating comments cropping up on various threads, maybe we’re all expecting the new owners to invest in the ground.

But one thing has always baffled me about how this equates to better atmosphere, I may be being thick and have missed something obvious but:

1. We all admit the atmosphere is not what it used to be.

2. We all know how to improve this, get the fans who want to stand and sing together.

So how will safe standing fix this, won’t we just be allocated a place to stand instead of a place to sit? Won’t we all be in the same place but stood up instead of sat down. Won’t non ST holders still have to buy match tickets that aren’t together / standing with mates.

Unless I’m totally wrong, the answer has to be standing blocks not individual places, blocks of about 250 places where you can buy an ST/MDT in a block, then if a group of ST holders have a mate who wants to attend a single match, they can buy a ticket in that block and all stand together.

I’ve read
https://www.standunited.uk/

And most of the articles here
https://thefsa.org.uk/?s=safe+standing

And can see the benefits to safe standing (I’m in KB4 and stand anyway) but I can’t see how it helps the atmosphere if the atmosphere generating fans are still fragmented.

Thank you for your post.
In my estimation the best on the subject of trying to emulate ground atmosphere of the past.
Unfortunately it can never be achieve for the simple reason, in the past one could position ones self any where on your chosen ground area.
Now a days, seats pinpoint exactly where one is expected to be.
Blocks only eleviate the restrictions exportentionly.
I recon the rule/law makers don't trust crowds/populus to act as of the past.
Not surprising when one looks at the past antic of a percentage of supporters.
So my opinion is, it's never going to be achieved.
Any how I go to the Lane to watch the football and shout my thoughts to the players, good or bad.
Singing is for the bathroom or church.