Crowds allowed into grounds in October..

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Bruce Wayne said:
Deaths 32 today and govt in panic mode again, I feel this winter will be games without fans.
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Out of a population of 66,000,000
There was 3 deaths on Sunday and a mere 2 deaths on Saturday.....wonder why the media didn’t report that?

It‘s been noticed that Saturday and Sunday deaths are always almost nil.....then on the Monday and Tuesday it’s much higher than normal.
Its due to the deaths that occurred over the weakend being reported late and put in the Monday figures.

Daily figures are notoriously unreliable. The most accurate way to show trends is to use weekly or fortnightly figures.
 

Sheffsteel said:
Out of a population of 66,000,000
There was 3 deaths on Sunday and a mere 2 deaths on Saturday.....wonder why the media didn’t report that?

It‘s been noticed that Saturday and Sunday deaths are always almost nil.....then on the Monday and Tuesday it’s much higher than normal.
Its due to the deaths that occurred over the weakend being reported late and put in the Monday figures.

Daily figures are notoriously unreliable. The most accurate way to show trends is to use weekly or fortnightly figures.
Click to expand...

I agree with you and I have said this time and time again

Why has the world gone to rat shit over this (not just the UK)? There has to be some other driver to this.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Deaths 32 today and govt in panic mode again, I feel this winter will be games without fans.
Click to expand...

At least half a dozen schools in Sheffield already looking at partial closures that is after less than a week of being back and these positives are mostly community/returning from abroad. Most schools have to shut bubbles and send multiple home already. Be interesting to see what happens in a few weeks when 1,000s have mixed in Schools for a period.

Reckon as much as the govt says schools will be last to close, many schools won't have the staff to keep them open if following the 14 day rules etc. Lots of schools will make own decisions.

I think in 2-3 weeks we will have a better picture of where the country is at. We might have lots of local lockdowns. We might not.

Frustrating but the schools opening and expected surge in cases could put paid to less essential things (sports/theatres etc) opening up any time soon...at least the numbers they were talking about originally getting in grounds for mid October.

By the way I'm back in a school mixing with all and sundry so for me I might aswell be back at the Lane! Whatever people think (get all grounds open/don't open/do gradually) I reckon the Govt will react to the surge and probably hold off on sporting events I feel sadly. At least the numbers they looked at initially from in a month. Hope I'm wrong.
 
blade67 said:
This is the truth. Young people acting like twats will keep the grounds closed as cases eventually lead to illness and then deaths.

There is no weak strain of this. Many young people get it but are barely affected but pass it on, eventually it passes on to more cautious older people and then the hospitalisations and deaths start and we all get locked down again.

FFS - socially distance, wear a mask, wash your hands and we might get a crowd in the ground again pretty soon.
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Do some independent research...it shows that Peru has had the strictest lock down in the world
but wearing masks....social distancing....has had little effect...their infection figures are amongst the worse in the world.

Then you have Sweden who have basically left it up the public to do what they want....with no lock down.
Their infection figures are pretty good...much much better than Peru’s...how can that be?

Over the Summer 100,000’s on beaches....the media predicted a 2nd wave.....but nothing.
Mass Black lives matters protests in London...the media predicted a 2nd wave...but nothing.
The media are now trying to blame kids from partying......they’re predicting a 2nd wave again....yet again they’ll be nothing.

How come in the early days the message was “protect the NHS and save lives”.....makes sense and rightfully received support.
But now there’s no hospitalisations and minimal deaths......they’ve stopped reporting the low figures.

Instead they’ve gone on a testing campaign...track and trace trying to actively find as many cases as possible.
So of course the rate will increase....but that’s a red herring....

Surely positive tests cases mean nothing unless you know how many have been tested and what % of the country are tested.
In fact data from “positive tests“ is like a dog chasing its tail.
The only meaningful method is to test everyone (the whole 66 million of the population),once a week.

Anyhow surely the important figure are illness and deaths.
This virus will probably end up like flu and always be around...so you just life with it.
At the moment you‘re more likely to die in a car accident than from corona virus.

Should we now be showing road traffics accidents every hour on tv and banning cars?
It seems the world has gone mad....appreciate it’s often scary when dealing with the unknown but I t’s like a mass hysteria and really bizarre.
The government are using deliberate language to stoke up the fear factor BUT then the following day don’t understand why people don’t want to return to work.
Theres something weird going on....I refuse to believe the government don’t realise what they are doing....they must have a plan.
 
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Sheffsteel said:
Do some independent research...it shows that Peru has had the strictest lock down in the world
but wearing masks....social distancing....has had little effect...their infection figures are amongst the worse.

Then you have Sweden who have basically left it up the public to do what they want....with no lock down.
Their infection figures are better than Peru’s...

Over the Summer 100,000’s on beaches....the media predicted a 2nd wave.....but nothing.
Mass Black lives matters protests in London...the media predicted a 2nd wave...but nothing.
The media are now trying to blame kids from partying......they’re predicting a 2nd wave again....yet again they’ll be nothing.

How come in the early days the message was “protect the NHS and save lives”.....makes sense and rightfully received support.
But now there’s no hospitalisations and minimal deaths......they’ve stopped reporting the low figures.

Instead they’ve gone on a testing campaign...track and trace trying to actively find as many cases as possible.
So of course the rate will increase....but that’s a red herring....

Surely positive tests cases mean nothing unless you know how many have been tested and what % of the country are tested.
In fact data from “positive tests“ is like a dog chasing its tail.
The only meaningful method is to test everyone (the whole 66 million of the population),once a week.

Anyhow surely the important figure are illness and deaths.
This virus will probably end up like flu and always be around...so you just life with it.
At the moment you‘re more likely to die in a car accident than from corona virus.

Should we now be showing road traffics accidents every hour and banning cars?
It seems the world has gone mad....it’s like a mass hysteria and really bizarre.
Click to expand...
in 4 weeks Spain has gone from 1 death a day to 184 deaths a day (5th August to 4th September). Road traffic deaths never rise at that rate. 5 a day is the UK average

383 cases on 8thJuly to over10,000cases on 4th September.

If you let this thing spread, people die and health care systems get over run

If you act responsibly like they do in Sweden, then it stays under some level of control.

I don't know anything about Peru but my guess is that they break the strict rules whereas the Swedes follow a very sensible set of rules as I've indicated above.
 
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Deadbat said:
At least half a dozen schools in Sheffield already looking at partial closures that is after less than a week of being back and these positives are mostly community/returning from abroad. Most schools have to shut bubbles and send multiple home already. Be interesting to see what happens in a few weeks when 1,000s have mixed in Schools for a period.

Reckon as much as the govt says schools will be last to close, many schools won't have the staff to keep them open if following the 14 day rules etc. Lots of schools will make own decisions.

I think in 2-3 weeks we will have a better picture of where the country is at. We might have lots of local lockdowns. We might not.

Frustrating but the schools opening and expected surge in cases could put paid to less essential things (sports/theatres etc) opening up any time soon...at least the numbers they were talking about originally getting in grounds for mid October.

By the way I'm back in a school mixing with all and sundry so for me I might aswell be back at the Lane! Whatever people think (get all grounds open/don't open/do gradually) I reckon the Govt will react to the surge and probably hold off on sporting events I feel sadly. At least the numbers they looked at initially from in a month. Hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

The school situation is a total mess....I’m glad I’m not a politician.
Its like heads you win....tails I loose......every option has massive disadvantages.
Feel really sorry for the kids....don’t think it’s fair to ask them to wear masks.

Its just been announced on the radio Boris Johnson won’t allow gatherings of 6 or more in your house or garden but it starts on Monday.
Hes also starting a new catch phrase.....called “Hands...Space...face“....sounds like a joke or a kids nursery rhyme.
Honestly I’d rather risk dying than live like a dog scared to leave the house...this could go on for years and years.
 
Berkshire Blade said:
Just have to go watch it in the pub in lots of little groups instead ..unless you live in Bolton where that's banned!
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I think it's looking inevitable that pubs will shut down again before too long. Whatever side of the fence you are on, it's looking clear that the government are building up towards more restrictions.
 
Roygbiv said:
I think it's looking inevitable that pubs will shut down again before too long. Whatever side of the fence you are on, it's looking clear that the government are building up towards more restrictions.
Click to expand...

I think locally yes. Nationally only if local lockdowns fail.
 
Sheffsteel said:
The school situation is a total mess....I’m glad I’m not a politician.
Its like heads you win....tails I loose......every option has massive disadvantages.
Feel really sorry for the kids....don’t think it’s fair to ask them to wear masks.

Its just been announced on the radio Boris Johnson won’t allow gatherings of 6 or more in your house or garden but it starts on Monday.
Hes also starting a new catch phrase.....called “Hands...Space...face“....sounds like a joke or a kids nursery rhyme.
Honestly I’d rather risk dying than live like a dog scared to leave the house...this could go on for years and years.
Click to expand...

If kids don't wear masks then they run the risk of passing it onto each other and then onto parents, grandparents etc then it will spread even more. Hospital cases increase etc. It's not about protecting them as they most likely won't get ill...It's about protecting older people...the teachers and the pupils' families. Think some people still struggling with this notion sadly.

Schools are doing there best but we can't control what happens outside the gates/at home/community. Then the minute they come in they could have it and pass on whether its on the bus/yard etc. It's a mess. I get why schools had to open but in a month they might be all shut again as it is not sustainable to keep shutting sections/years/bubbles based on current rules.
 
Deadbat said:
It's a mess. I get why schools had to open but in a month they might be all shut again as it is not sustainable to keep shutting sections/years/bubbles based on current rules.
Click to expand...

Agree....what a choice? It’s like playing God and being forced to decide which group is going to suffer based on your decision.

Send the kids to school could be a disaster with nightmare consequences....a very small percentage of the elderly and vulnerable could die.
Temporarily close the schools and/ or teaching at home could have nightmare long term consequences....all the kids will suffer with long term effects.
 
Here’s an idea why don’t we just get on with our lives and stop overreacting over a virus that has a death rate of 0.01% 😴 whole thing is a joke. At this rate we it will be about 2 years before we go to another game
 

Sheffsteel said:
Do some independent research...it shows that Peru has had the strictest lock down in the world
but wearing masks....social distancing....has had little effect...their infection figures are amongst the worse in the world.

Then you have Sweden who have basically left it up the public to do what they want....with no lock down.
Their infection figures are pretty good...much much better than Peru’s...how can that be?

Over the Summer 100,000’s on beaches....the media predicted a 2nd wave.....but nothing.
Mass Black lives matters protests in London...the media predicted a 2nd wave...but nothing.
The media are now trying to blame kids from partying......they’re predicting a 2nd wave again....yet again they’ll be nothing.

How come in the early days the message was “protect the NHS and save lives”.....makes sense and rightfully received support.
But now there’s no hospitalisations and minimal deaths......they’ve stopped reporting the low figures.

Instead they’ve gone on a testing campaign...track and trace trying to actively find as many cases as possible.
So of course the rate will increase....but that’s a red herring....

Surely positive tests cases mean nothing unless you know how many have been tested and what % of the country are tested.
In fact data from “positive tests“ is like a dog chasing its tail.
The only meaningful method is to test everyone (the whole 66 million of the population),once a week.

Anyhow surely the important figure are illness and deaths.
This virus will probably end up like flu and always be around...so you just life with it.
At the moment you‘re more likely to die in a car accident than from corona virus.

Should we now be showing road traffics accidents every hour on tv and banning cars?
It seems the world has gone mad....appreciate it’s often scary when dealing with the unknown but I t’s like a mass hysteria and really bizarre.
The government are using deliberate language to stoke up the fear factor BUT then the following day don’t understand why people don’t want to return to work.
Theres something weird going on....I refuse to believe the government don’t realise what they are doing....they must have a plan.
Click to expand...
There is a higher agenda, surely People must realise it soon. This government needs to be overthrown. Even doctors and nurses are backing up the hospitals are empty.
 
DJBlade said:
I'll take the 19million to 1 chance of dying from it to be able to go to a sold out home game!
Click to expand...

It’s a bit simplistic but I feel the same........I‘d rather take my chances and live life....
but it’s not that simple.....people who become seriously ill will naturally expect and demand hospital treatment....what if the NHS can’t cope with the numbers?

However we can’t be cowering in the corner fearing the worse....the media don‘t help with their constant fear, negativity and bad news stories.
We should respect the virus but not fear it.....we should slowly and carefully do an unlock down with a rational “bigger picture” view of statistics.

A great example might be a headline “400% increase in positive tests cases for Corona virus”

Sounds really bad but its only a small part of the picture.
We need to know what the figures were before and after and how it compares to the population.
We also need to know how many are being tested and the circumstances behind those tests.
We also need to know historical details of tests.....is testing becoming more widespread and is track and trace finding many positive test cases.

Its possible that millions had the Corona virus in March but showed no symptoms so were never tested.
So over the last few months positive test has massively reduced to minimal levels.....so it’s on the decrease not an increase.
The testing situation is a farce anyway....like a dog chasing its tail.
Just because you’ve been tested to not have the virus today doesn’t mean you wont catch it the week after.
The only way posting test data can give a true picture is if all 66 million of the UK are tested....on a weekly basis.

However positive tests could be a total red herring....if the % of people becoming ill is incredibly low then it’s not that important if millions have the virus
Surely the main statistic everyone should focus on is weekly “hospitalisations” rate and the weekly “death” rate.
 
Sooner or later, even without a vaccine, the world will have to open up and get back to work.

First world countries, with the resources to fight the pandemic have gone deep into debt to combat the virus and keep the economy ticking over. They have access to loans to support this.

Third world and developing countries are doing the best they can with limited resources. They are also battling cultural fear of being tested positive, carrying a stigma, so they avoid getting tested. Their economies are less developed and less robust, plus they don’t have the luxury of access to almost unlimited loans like western nations do.

Out of desperation, they will be the first to open for business and stimulate the economy., because if they don’t, their people will all starve to death. No jobs, no income, no food. Anarchy will result. They will be the first to test the water, and the first to experience the fallout from fighting back against the virus.

Sooner or later, we will all have rely on no more paper borrowings, and build or grow stuff to sell, so we can pay back the trillions borrowed to keep us afloat.

Anyone else bored sitting around waiting for some mythical, promised end to all this?
 
Sheffsteel said:
Good post but I just want to make a couple of comments

So over the last few months positive test has massively reduced to minimal levels.....so it’s on the decrease not an increase.

Incorrect. On July 8th, the 7 day average for daily new cases was 545. The 7 day average for daily new cases has been on the up and now stands at 2199 daily new cases. The highest it's ever been is 4999 back in April so we could well rise to those heights again as we head into winter.

Surely the main statistic everyone should focus on is weekly “hospitalisations” rate and the weekly “death” rate.

Only when used in tandem with the rise in daily new cases, because increased hospitalisation and death rates lag behind the new cases figures by three to four weeks. There has been a tiny level of death over the last few days with no rise of scary proportions yet. Long may that continue.

The only way posting test data can give a true picture is if all 66 million of the UK are tested....on a weekly basis.

That would be great if it could be done.

However positive tests could be a total red herring....if the % of people becoming ill is incredibly low then it’s not that important if millions have the virus

People tend only to go for tests if they are in a particular section of the workforce or if they have symptoms. There are many more who have the virus but have no symptoms. They don't get a test but can still pass the virus on to others.

You need to know how many are testing positive as the test gives an indication as to trends. If it shows a bad trend in any of the figures, especially daily new cases, it becomes a driver for taking appropriate action to prevent rises in hospitalisations and deaths. It's no good taking action when those figures (hospitalisations and deaths) are showing rising trends, it's too late for those people.

Look at France; on July 7th, their 7 day average daily new cases stood at 573 after a decent period of stability. Now, they have risen to over 7000 per 7 days on average. Their current death rate numbers are very flat and just a little more than us so it will be interesting to see what happens there.
The issue is whether the 19-39 age range who are gaining most of the increases in cases, act in a socially responsible way by NOT passing it on to others.

The most important aspect of all of this is just taking the very basic and simple precautions of;

1 Washing your hands with soap for 20 seconds as frequently as you can
2 Social distancing where possible
3 Wear a face covering if proper social distancing isn't possible. Scarves or snoods will do if you haven't got a face mask or face masks make breathing difficult.

Selfish not to, IMO!
Click to expand...
 
BLADES1988 said:
There is a higher agenda, surely People must realise it soon. This government needs to be overthrown. Even doctors and nurses are backing up the hospitals are empty.
Click to expand...
I get the general picture. Lots of stats. Lots of media. And our Govt continue to try to maintain things like Social Distancing, no spectators in grounds, travel quarantine, masks. And some people do their "own independent research" & think we should just unlock the lot. But, what do people really think this higher agenda is? That's the bit I don't get.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I get the general picture. Lots of stats. Lots of media. And our Govt continue to try to maintain things like Social Distancing, no spectators in grounds, travel quarantine, masks. And some people do their "own independent research" & think we should just unlock the lot. But, what do people really think this higher agenda is? That's the bit I don't get.
Click to expand...

We live in entitled society where many people think they know everything there is to know about everything and no-one can tell them any different.
 
BornOnShorehamStreet said:
We live in entitled society where many people think they know everything there is to know about everything and no-one can tell them any different.
Click to expand...
I understand that point. But this Higher Agenda IS telling them different. I'm a Thinker, not a Fighter. I can't fathom out what some people think this Higher Agenda is.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I get the general picture. Lots of stats. Lots of media. And our Govt continue to try to maintain things like Social Distancing, no spectators in grounds, travel quarantine, masks. And some people do their "own independent research" & think we should just unlock the lot. But, what do people really think this higher agenda is? That's the bit I don't get.
Click to expand...

I do my own independent research. I've come to the conclusion that the measures we are being forced to take are not proportionate to the risk of death from coronavirus. There is no higher agenda or conspracy in my view. It's just a clusterfuck of the highest order, with numerous interpretations of the figures. It is normal for government to 1) err on the side of caution, and 2) never admit they got it wrong.

It's worth noting that dissent is far, far higher among those who don't have power. Among critics of the measures are many former politicians, and many former scientists who aren't reliant on instututes for a wage. But among those who have something to lose, people in power or on good salaries, there is far less criticism.

When people get in positions of power, or get a job with a good salary, they want to hang on to their position. For a politician, it's a no-brainer. Support more draconian measures and you'll lose nothing. You are following the advice of "the science" and your political party. Support an easing of draconian measures and you run the risk of your career being over. You will be accused of being irresponsible, a "covidiot," a conspiracy theorist. For a scientist, to go against the mainstream means they could lose their job, reputation or tenure. Opponents of the measures will also be accused of being "disrespectful to our loved ones who have passed away".

There are lots of stats and figures available. The graphs you see in most newspapers and mainstream websites are the most pessimistic ones. It's all about clicks, and towing the official line. Newspapers and websites thrive on bad news. It gets more clicks.

It's very clear to me that Cocid19 is not the horrific killer virus it was portrayed as. It's an infectious respiratory virus that is dangerous to very vulnerable older people. For most of us, a dose is nothing to worry about. The vast majority will either display no symptoms at all or recover in a week.

I realise that it is very hard for many people to accept any alternative narrative after their sacrifices, and constant media propaganda. Some of us will find it very difficult to accept that trusted news sources like the BBC will report "facts" that are incorrect. But this isn't the first time in history that the mainstream has been very wrong. I remember the BBC reporting that Saddam Hussain had weapons of mass destruction. Politicians were queuing up to urge us to attack Iraq before Saddam unleashed his weapons on us. Opponents of the war were portrayed as political agitators with an agenda, who "didn't beleive the facts"

There wasn't a huge conspiracy to attack Iraq. People and politicians simply believed the establishment narrative that was presented to them, because it was reported by trusted outlets like the BBC and the Times. They found it hard to beleive that politicians and the mainstream media could be wrong about Saddam's WMD's. Once an idea takes a firm hold within the establishment, it becomes very hard to counter it from the outside.

To me the current situation with covid couldn't be clearer. Lots more testing is being done, and therefore *"cases" are rising. But the fact that we are seeing lots of new cases but very few deaths should be something to be celebrated. It shouldn't make us more scared. It is clear now that the virus is nothing like as lethal as governments have been making out.

People should be made aware of the dangers to the very old and very vulnerable. They should be shielded if they choose. But yes, apart from that I agree we should "just unlock the lot." These measures are causing severe physical and mental harm to vulnerable people, putting many thousands out of work, and are creating a recession that could be on par with 2008.
 
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Dkc said:
I do my own independent research. I've come to the conclusion that the measures we are being forced to take are not proportionate to the risk of death from coronavirus. There is no higher agenda or conspracy in my view. It's just a clusterfuck of the highest order, with numerous interpretations of the figures. It is normal for government to 1) err on the side of caution, and 2) never admit they got it wrong.

It's worth noting that dissent is far, far higher among those who don't have power. Among critics of the measures are many former politicians, and many former scientists who aren't reliant on instututes for a wage. But among those who have something to lose, people in power or on good salaries, there is far less criticism.

When people get in positions of power, or get a job with a good salary, they want to hang on to their position. For a politician, it's a no-brainer. Support more draconian measures and you'll lose nothing. You are following the advice of "the science" and your political party. Support an easing of draconian measures and you run the risk of your career being over. You will be accused of being irresponsible, a "covidiot," a conspiracy theorist. For a scientist, to go against the mainstream means they could lose their job, reputation or tenure. Opponents of the measures will also be accused of being "disrespectful to our loved ones who have passed away".

There are lots of stats and figures available. The graphs you see in most newspapers and mainstream websites are the most pessimistic ones. It's all about clicks, and towing the official line. Newspapers and websites thrive on bad news. It gets more clicks.

It's very clear to me that Cocid19 is not the horrific killer virus it was portrayed as. It's an infectious respiratory virus that is dangerous to very vulnerable older people. For most of us, a dose is nothing to worry about. The vast majority will either display no symptoms at all or recover in a week.

I realise that it is very hard for many people to accept any alternative narrative after their sacrifices, and constant media propaganda. Some of us will find it very difficult to accept that trusted news sources like the BBC will report "facts" that are incorrect. But this isn't the first time in history that the mainstream has been very wrong. I remember the BBC reporting that Saddam Hussain had weapons of mass destruction. Politicians were queuing up to urge us to attack Iraq before Saddam unleashed his weapons on us. Opponents of the war were portrayed as political agitators with an agenda, who "didn't beleive the facts"

There wasn't a huge conspiracy to attack Iraq. People and politicians simply believed the establishment narrative that was presented to them, because it was reported by trusted outlets like the BBC and the Times. They found it hard to beleive that politicians and the mainstream media could be wrong about Saddam's WMD's. Once an idea takes a firm hold within the establishment, it becomes very hard to counter it from the outside.

To me the current situation with covid couldn't be clearer. Lots more testing is being done, and therefore *"cases" are rising. But the fact that we are seeing lots of new cases but very few deaths should be something to be celebrated. It shouldn't make us more scared. It is clear now that the virus is nothing like as lethal as governments have been making out.

People should be made aware of the dangers to the very old and very vulnerable. They should be shielded if they choose. But yes, apart from that I agree we should "just unlock the lot." These measures are causing severe physical and mental harm to vulnerable people, putting many thousands out of work, and are creating a recession that could be on par with 2008.
Click to expand...
Dkc
Respect. I too have done my own independent research & come to a completely different conclusion to you. The most critical thing I'll say about your post is that it reads as follows....

There is no Higher Agenda in my view..... paragraph after paragraph explaining an independently researched Higher Agenda.

I have no problems with that. But, I do have advice.

Embrace the fact that you think there is a Higher Agenda.
 

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