Computer says no

[MayorOJC]

It's definitely the right direction to go - as Brighton, Brentford and others have shown.

The company that we're using for scouting (Short Circuit Science) seems to be a fairly small company - with most of the employees based in Bangladesh. Would personally feel better if we developed our own in-house data team, but maybe that's the plan down the line.

 

[Le Cynique]

Journalism standards are certainly slipping. The new investor introducing an AI model to player acquisitions is not Bord, it's this member of the collective...

View attachment 210029

If Seven of Nine is involved, then it gets my seal of approval

 

[DifferentClass]

It's definitely the right direction to go - as Brighton, Brentford and others have shown.

The company that we're using for scouting (Short Circuit Science) seems to be a fairly small company - with most of the employees based in Bangladesh. Would personally feel better if we developed our own in-house data team, but maybe that's the plan down the line.

Would explain the Hamza signing...

 

[Sean Thornton]

We haven't

Clickbait suggesting otherwise though.

 

[Lower Drop Blade]

Can't see this being CW cup of tea.
Don't mind it myself but not 100%, scouts still have a place to.

 

[utd4ever]

 

[b1ade4life]

Will the AI be linked to the fax machine??

 

[Aston max]

View attachment 209986

Is this one of the new centre halves ??

 

[Groucho Blade]

View attachment 210054

An important part of my Blades team when we won the European Cup six times in a row…

 

[Silent Blade]

Not sure about this. How would AI know which players are disruptive in the dressing room?

Bobby Robson wrote in his autobiography that he had never forgotten a very good piece of advice from Arsenal's manager, Bertie Mee which was "if a player, no matter how good he is, becomes disruptive in the dressing room, then get rid of him as soon as you can"

 

[Dkc]

What I don't understand is that if the use of AI gives an advantage in terms of recruitment and tactics, all clubs will use it. But still, only two clubs can finish in the automatic places and three AI-using clubs will be relegated. It won't bring any advantage if everyone uses it,

 

[Dkc]

Not sure about this. How would AI know which players are disruptive in the dressing room?

Bobby Robson wrote in his autobiography that he had never forgotten a very good piece of advice from Arsenal's manager, Bertie Mee which was "if a player, no matter how good he is, becomes disruptive in the dressing room, then get rid of him as soon as you can"

Cameras in the dressing room that record every word spoken and every reaction?

 

[Nick Jansky]

What I don't understand is that if the use of AI gives an advantage in terms of recruitment and tactics, all clubs will use it. But still, only two clubs can finish in the automatic places and three AI-using clubs will be relegated. It won't bring any advantage if everyone uses it,

As with coaching, and indeed most other things, it will be determined by who uses it best.

 

[Sean Thornton]

What I don't understand is that if the use of AI gives an advantage in terms of recruitment and tactics, all clubs will use it. But still, only two clubs can finish in the automatic places and three AI-using clubs will be relegated. It won't bring any advantage if everyone uses it,

That assumes everyone interprets any data the same way without human involvement affecting decisions or the funds you have available.

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

What I don't understand is that if the use of AI gives an advantage in terms of recruitment and tactics, all clubs will use it. But still, only two clubs can finish in the automatic places and three AI-using clubs will be relegated. It won't bring any advantage if everyone uses it,

Aye
Won’t the systems identify (exactly) the same players whereby it will still be down to ‘human’ decision making: preference (if player/manager) persuasion & pounds to be paid (& received)

NB I’m far from averse to its application/ utilisation

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

That assumes everyone interprets any data the same way without human involvement affecting decisions or the funds you have available.

Bastard - beat me to it

 

[Dkc]

Bastard - beat me to it

Humans already interpret data derived from scouting and performance, so not much will have changed there.

What AI can do is analyse every minute of every single filmed game that a potential target has played in - every decision, every sprint, every tackle. It can even analyse training sessions and personality, to gague ability to fit into a squad. It can analyse the tactics and players of opponents, and identify weaknesses. It can do many more things that our current scouts and coaches do.

I can see this as the future of football, and I can see owners wanting a manager who accepts all this.

But managers can inspire in a way that computers can't. A computer can't celebrate with the fans. It can't console a young player who's lost a parent or whose partner has left them, it can't make jokes and issue instructions during training, it can't persuade a player to open up if something is amiss. It can't create a siege mentality within a team, instill the desire to win.

A good club owner will embrace AI but recognise that the human element is still critical to a team's success. I doubt that a yes-man who basically implements AI decisions will have success.

 

[HeySethUTB]

What I don't understand is that if the use of AI gives an advantage in terms of recruitment and tactics, all clubs will use it. But still, only two clubs can finish in the automatic places and three AI-using clubs will be relegated. It won't bring any advantage if everyone uses it,

It’ll be how effectively teams apply it that will give the advantages in my educational role I’ve seen people use it very poorly and some people that have used so successfully they could convince you that the sun doesn’t exist. Another thing is how powerful the AI model is and it’s programming those factors will sort out some of the problem in the short term.

Another factor is AI will only solve problems in response to human input. Each team will still have a unique playing philosophy and budget, that requires different types of players so in the end I envision a maximisation of those styles, and the players recruited, therefore variance and competition will still exist.

The biggest advantage that can be leveraged from it though is financial if used correctly, less scouts better value for money. There’s currently research being done on player valuation models that aims to use data analytics and AI to determine player value, stopping all this stupid subjective pricing.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It’ll be how effectively teams apply it that will give the advantages in my educational role I’ve seen people use it very poorly and some people that have used so successfully they could convince you that the sun doesn’t exist. Another thing is how powerful the AI model is and it’s programming those factors will sort out some of the problem in the short term.

Another factor is AI will only solve problems in response to human input. Each team will still have a unique playing philosophy, that requires different types of players so in the end I envision a maximisation of those styles and the players recruited for them therefore variance and competition will still exist.

The biggest advantage that can be leveraged from it though is financial if used correctly, less scouts better value for money. There’s currently research being done on player valuation models that aims to use data analytics and AI to determine player value, stopping all this stupid subjective pricing.

Which is exactly, and rather obviously, why the “there’s no advantage if everyone uses it” claim is nonsense.

 

[HeySethUTB]

Which is exactly, and rather obviously, why the “there’s no advantage if everyone uses it” claim is nonsense.

Exactly Sean Thornton AI tools in football might become widely available, but that doesn’t make them equalisers. The advantage shifts from having the tool to knowing how to wield it effectively through better staff, deeper insights, and smarter integration into decision-making.

So, just like putting two people in a kitchen with the same equipment, AI won't eliminate competition it'll just redefine what skill and innovation look like resulting in different potential outcomes.

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

It’ll be how effectively teams apply it that will give the advantages in my educational role I’ve seen people use it very poorly and some people that have used so successfully they could convince you that the sun doesn’t exist. Another thing is how powerful the AI model is and it’s programming those factors will sort out some of the problem in the short term.

Another factor is AI will only solve problems in response to human input. Each team will still have a unique playing philosophy and budget, that requires different types of players so in the end I envision a maximisation of those styles, and the players recruited, therefore variance and competition will still exist.

The biggest advantage that can be leveraged from it though is financial if used correctly, less scouts better value for money. There’s currently research being done on player valuation models that aims to use data analytics and AI to determine player value, stopping all this stupid subjective pricing.

Aye
A most elegant expansive & erudite (insightful interpretation) of what I was trying to say, like -bastard

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

Oops
Wrong’target’

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

Humans already interpret data derived from scouting and performance, so not much will have changed there.

What AI can do is analyse every minute of every single filmed game that a potential target has played in - every decision, every sprint, every tackle. It can even analyse training sessions and personality, to gague ability to fit into a squad. It can analyse the tactics and players of opponents, and identify weaknesses. It can do many more things that our current scouts and coaches do.

I can see this as the future of football, and I can see owners wanting a manager who accepts all this.

But managers can inspire in a way that computers can't. A computer can't celebrate with the fans. It can't console a young player who's lost a parent or whose partner has left them, it can't make jokes and issue instructions during training, it can't persuade a player to open up if something is amiss. It can't create a siege mentality within a team, instill the desire to win.

A good club owner will embrace AI but recognise that the human element is still critical to a team's success. I doubt that a yes-man who basically implements AI decisions will have success.

Aye
A most elegant expansive & erudite (insightful interpretation) of what I was, you know, trying to say, like -bastard

 

[Racing Blade]

The principle is no different to using systems to predict the stock market or for betting purposes. It's been happening for decades. The fact that people now call it AI doesn't necessarily make it new and something to be afraid of.

As people here have alluded to, what happens is that someone discovers a new and insightful data source which, for a time, gives a slight advantage. The market then reacts and adopts the insight from that data source, meaning that you no longer gain the advantage.

That said, it's not an option to ignore the same insight and hope to operate using outdated information and practices, for example, in football terms, an intuitive hunch that a prospect will become a Premier League starlet.

 

[Dkc]

Over the past 50 years we've had 23 permanent managers. Apart from Wilder only four of them have led us to promotion. The other 18 have failed to gain promotion or got us relegated.

That's relevant data. AI isn't a zero sum game. We've been using less-advanced AI since computers and the internet became common in the workplace. Each regime thought it had made the best decision based on the info available. Eighteen of the 23 turned out to be duds.

We have a driven, double promotion-winning manager who is eager to give it another crack. We could let him get on with it, or we could sack him and roll the dice again.

Guess what ChatGTP said when I asked it if sacking Wilder was a good idea.

 

[Dkc]

The principle is no different to using systems to predict the stock market or for betting purposes. It's been happening for decades. The fact that people now call it AI doesn't necessarily make it new and something to be afraid of.

As people here have alluded to, what happens is that someone discovers a new and insightful data source which, for a time, gives a slight advantage. The market then reacts and adopts the insight from that data source, meaning that you no longer gain the advantage.

That said, it's not an option to ignore the same insight and hope to operate using outdated information and practices, for example, in football terms, an intuitive hunch that a prospect will become a Premier League starlet.

Agree apart from the final graph. Some people can instinctively see potential.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Over the past 50 years we've had 23 permanent managers. Apart from Wilder only four of them have led us to promotion. The other 18 have failed to gain promotion or got us relegated.

That's relevant data. AI isn't a zero sum game. We've been using less-advanced AI since computers and the internet became common in the workplace. Each regime thought it had made the best decision based on the info available. Eighteen of the 23 turned out to be duds.

We have a driven, double promotion-winning manager who is eager to give it another crack. We could let him get on with it, or we could sack him and roll the dice again.

Guess what ChatGTP said when I asked it if sacking Wilder was a good idea.

ChatGTP can't predict who the replacement would be, what formation and tactics they would use or what squad they would have, so any answer it gives you is completely redundant.

Lots of clubs have been using data driven recruitment to find great players from abroad for cheap. They used to sift through all the data manually. All the AI is going to do is sift through the data quicker to help speed up an existing process. That's it. People. Human beings are still going to make the final decisions and they might not agree with some of the players put forward by the data as they'll look into injury record, wages, fitness etc.

We are not asking ChatGTP and Alexa to find us players. It's not difficult to understand this.

 

[Dkc]

ChatGTP can't predict who the replacement would be, what formation and tactics they would use or what squad they would have, so any answer it gives you is completely redundant.

It can't predict whether a new manager will be any good. But it can calculate whether we are more likely to get promoted by changing a manager of Wilder's calibre to an unknown quantity.

It will logically base its calculations on how new SUFC managers have fared over history - especially those who managed in the Championship. Did they gain promotion or end up being sacked? (23 over the past 50 years. Five gained promotion.)

If anyone's trusting emotion over logic, it's those who want CW gone.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It can't predict whether a new manager will be any good. But it can calculate whether we are more likely to get promoted by changing a manager of Wilder's calibre to an unknown quantity.

It will logically base its calculations on how new SUFC managers have fared over history - especially those who managed in the Championship. Did they gain promotion or end up being sacked? (23 over the past 50 years. Five gained promotion.)

If anyone's trusting emotion over logic, it's those who want CW gone.

How can it make a prediction if there’s an unknown quantity? Surely it would need a named option.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

It can't predict whether a new manager will be any good. But it can calculate whether we are more likely to get promoted by changing a manager of Wilder's calibre to an unknown quantity.

It will logically base its calculations on how new SUFC managers have fared over history - especially those who managed in the Championship. Did they gain promotion or end up being sacked? (23 over the past 50 years. Five gained promotion.)

If anyone's trusting emotion over logic, it's those who want CW gone.

So it's speculation, that's it. It still can't predict all those factors. If you'd asked ChatGPT how Liverpool would do after Klopp left I'll bet it wouldn't have had them down to win the Premier League. If you'd have asked it how Burnley would get on after Kompany left I'll bet it wouldn't have had them down to win promotion. Anything ChatGTP comes up with is not fact. It's hypothetical speculation.