Ambition!

[DuncDisorderly]

Are we sure all this talk about debt isn't just the S6 mob trying to destabilise us..? They'd do that you know. Loose lips sink ships and all that...

 

[alcoblade]

Are we sure all this talk about debt isn't just the S6 mob trying to destabilise us..? They'd do that you know. Loose lips sink ships and all that...

It's in the club accounts, it seems. I'm sure Crouchy (whatever happened to him?) pretty much said as much before. And loose lips might actually stop us taking on ever more debt (at Libor + 4% etc), when the wider support base wakes up to it.

UTB

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

If we had serious cashflow issues I would of expected the club to be asking fans to renew season tickets now etc.

One point I would like to make is we have idea of how much we are generating from the hotel as when the financial results were published it had only just opened.
I think you might be jumping the gun a little Alco, as with Ched lets both hope I'm right.

 

[Latters]

Debt in itself isn't a massive hinderence to us spending. I'm sure most of us as posters are in debt after purchasing houses, cars and the like. The club/company is the same. We've purchased the hotel, built on the ground and got interests in some foreign clubs.

I would imagine the debt is being paid off much like somebody would pay off a mortgage. Paying your mortgage doesn't stop you from going shopping for the things you need and the odd exceptional item like a nice big TV unless you're an idiot and borrow far more than you can pay back.

If the club can manage its money, I don't see why it should affect our spending in a major way.

Where's our TV/landmark signing?!

 

[alcoblade]

I think you might be jumping the gun a little Alco, as with Ched lets both hope I'm right.

I hope you're right, but worry that you aren't, on both counts.

The debt is in the accounts to be seen along with the very nice interest charges, the only question is what cashflow issues that causes us.

We sold 2 players for £10M in the summer, and outlayed a fraction of it. We have a paper thin squad and many players out contract at the end of the season. We seem to be doing very little about this. We're told we wont buy unless we sell another of our better players. There's plenty of indication things aren't right.

UTB

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I hope you're right, but worry that you aren't, on both counts.

The debt is in the accounts to be seen along with the very nice interest charges, the only question is what cashflow issues that causes us.

We sold 2 players for £10M in the summer, and outlayed a fraction of it. We have a paper thin squad and many players out contract at the end of the season. We seem to be doing very little about this. We're told we wont buy unless we sell another of our better players. There's plenty of indication things aren't right.

UTB

I think part of the problem is attracting better players than we current have while reducing the wage bill which is at a fixed level.
Therefore selling the Kyles for £10 Million doesn't give us £10 Million to spend total.
I think if there was a player who would fit into our new wage structure and he would cost £2-3 Million I think we would pay it.
I think controlling the wage bill is very prudent and that our wage bill should be a % of our turnover.

On a side note the £10 Million for the Kyles wasn't included with the debt. I would suspect everything will be a little clearer in the next accounts when we no longer have things like parachute payments making things more complicated and our wagebill should of been cut. Of course as BB says these documents are drawn up for the best interests of the club so it isn't going to tell us everything.

 

[Grecian2000]

Where's our TV/landmark signing?!

It was the TV, though to be fair that's where the best action has been the last few games.

 

[Latters]

It was the TV, though to be fair that's where the best action has been the last few games.

Ah, the big screen, how could I forget? I particularly liked the game where the screensaver kept coming on and wondered at the time if they'd appointed a "mouse nudger" to sort it.

Not so keen now they have the Guiness adverts around the outside though, the picture's too small, especially when I forget my glasses at 99% of games. Not sure if that's lucky though!

 

[DuncDisorderly]

On a side note the £10 Million for the Kyles wasn't included with the debt. I would suspect everything will be a little clearer in the next accounts when we no longer have things like parachute payments making things more complicated and our wagebill should of been cut. Of course as BB says these documents are drawn up for the best interests of the club so it isn't going to tell us everything.

The last published accounts didn't include the Kyles transfer, nor any West Ham money if I remember rightly. We made £6m profit last year and it doesn't look like we've increased our spending much since, does it? Of the masive debt, I think (without checking figures) about £1.2m was direct to Kev McC at high interest, £6.5m was by Scarborough at high interest but was a short term bridging loan secured against the first payment from West Ham, and the rest is at 3 or 4% over base rate which isn't unusual for corporate borrowing.

Listening to any pig fan, (all financial experts now, dont you know..!) we were paying 10%+ on everything. In fact just taking the Kyles and West Ham, there is £28.5m due in over a period of time, and as much of the remainder is there to pay for propery assets then this 'SUFC are more broke than SWFC' story, and stop me if I get a bit technical, is a load of cock.

Still its stopping the piggies from asking where their investment is..?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

They say the west ham money is included or at least part of it.

 

[beightonblade]

if i cud choose which one to inherit between SUFC or SWFC i'd go wi the Blades.

McCabe an his high interest rates take it as swings an roundabouts !

He pulls strings for the Blades which sum folks cud never do

 

[lenners]

They say the west ham money is included or at least part of it.

West Ham money was included and the accounts don't make pretty reading.
But it is largely McCabe owing McCabe so unless he develops schizophrenia we should be ok for a while.

 

[Jon Bon]

I detect a slow, painful, un-entertaining era approaching, with the only thing to look forward to is a Car Park Statue being erected to Derek Dooley

I hope it will depict him holding his shoes above his head if Blackwell is still around.....

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

I would question your comment about Man U;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/01/can_man_utd_spend.html

 

[Mad Mick]

I think we need to be wary as definatley all in the garden is not rosey. As Alcoblade say's we do have substantial debt. Although some of this debt is at a high interest linked to Libor as I understand it the majority is linked to the base rate and is about 4%. That is very cheap money and if you take the likelihood of inflation into account (CPI) McCabe is not exactly making a killing. Also as I understand it he's not taking much of a salary. We also have substantial assets, and whilst the value of these assets are depressed at the moment, they are likely to increase in value over the next few years.
Looking at our stadium and the future we need to be careful, but I know which side of the town I'd prefer to be.

 

[alcoblade]

Looking at our stadium and the future we need to be careful, but I know which side of the town I'd prefer to be.

This bit we can all agree on.

UTB

 

[sitwell]

I hope it will depict him holding his shoes above his head if Blackwell is still around.....

Shoe

 

[Compound_Legend]

 

[Micalijo]

West Ham money was included and the accounts don't make pretty reading.
But it is largely McCabe owing McCabe so unless he develops schizophrenia we should be ok for a while.

Are you sure about that? Blades Realty has a huge bank overdraft and there is the hotel mortgage, again with a bank not Scarborough I believe.

Impossible, in my opinion, to overstate how deep the recession is (not McCabe's doing obviously) and how badly wrong McCabe's gamble of linking the club with Realty has therefore gone. As the accounts say, the ownership structure of these assets and liabilities is under review - which hopefully means Realty can be shoved into Scarborough.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

As far as i recall £18m of the west ham money was included in these accounts.