Simon Jordan - "Wendies Bigger club than Sheffield Utd"

[fifty shades of blade]

people who are 45 plus which covers me have spent most of their childhood and early 20s with Wednesday as the far more dominant club, people 30 and below the exact opposite

Well that's bullshite. I am 52 and while pigs were above us for a bit when I was a kid in the 80s, by my mid teens we were back up with them. Hell they even got relegated from the top league same year we got promoted to it in 1990. To say pigs were far more dominant at any point during my life is laughable.

 

[Silent Blade]

The facts show overall, from 1890 to date…Wednesday edge United in virtually every big club stat but it’s very close….closer than what some people think.
Seasons in the top flight Sheff Wed 66 seasons Sheff Utd 63
Major trophies won Sheff Wed 7 Sheff Utd 5
Seasons in Europe Sheff Wed 2 Sheff Utd 0
Historical average attendances 21.5K Sheff Utd 19.5K

Seasons in the top flight Sheff Wed (1990) 8 seasons Sheff Utd 63
Major trophies won Sheff Wed (1990) 1 Sheff Utd 5
Seasons in Europe Sheff Wed (1990) 1 Sheff Utd 0

 

[wak1889]

Well that's bullshite. I am 52 and while pigs were above us for a bit when I was a kid in the 80s, by my mid teens we were back up with them. Hell they even got relegated from the top league same year we got promoted to it in 1990. To say pigs were far more dominant at any point during my life is laughable.

Fair enough I'm 49 and I remember them being in the top division from early /mid 80s to 2000 with 1 season outside the top division which was the season they won a cup, the average crowds during that period was probably 24-25,000 I remember them finishing in European places whilst we were in the second division, but due to heysel they couldn't play in Europe, I also recall they got to 2 more cup finals and played in Europe and regularly spent millions on players, during the period mid 80s to 2000 we spent 4 years in the top league and we're getting an average of about 16,000 during that time and spent next to nothing on players so in my memory they were ahead of us in all the metrics that we are ahead of them now,

 

[Frank the tank]

Maybe at this moment in time but my point is historically Wednesday have been the bigger club, city currently are bigger than united but no one can seriously say they are the bigger club

Think you're confusing bigger with more successful

 

[fifty shades of blade]

Fair enough I'm 49 and I remember them being in the top division from early /mid 80s to 2000 with 1 season outside the top division which was the season they won a cup, the average crowds during that period was probably 24-25,000 I remember them finishing in European places whilst we were in the second division, but due to heysel they couldn't play in Europe, I also recall they got to 2 more cup finals and played in Europe and regularly spent millions on players, during the period mid 80s to 2000 we spent 4 years in the top league and we're getting an average of about 16,000 during that time and spent next to nothing on players so in my memory they were ahead of us in all the metrics that we are ahead of them now,

You said they were the dominant force, which means they have been hugely better than us over said period. They haven't. Attendances and playing a team of Luxembourg sparkies do not signify their dominance over us.

 

[wak1889]

Think you're confusing bigger with more successful

Yes in terms of city and united, city definitely more successful man united still bigger

 

[wak1889]

You said they were the dominant force, which means they have been hugely better than us over said period. They haven't. Attendances and playing a team of Luxembourg sparkies do not signify their dominance over us.

OK fair enough then we cannot say that we are bigger than them either by using the same metrics, so neither club is bigger than the other, we just have periods where 1 is higher in the league pyramid than the other and it goes in cycles and we are both mid sized underperforming unambitous clubs

 

[fifty shades of blade]

OK fair enough then we cannot say that we are bigger than them either by using the same metrics

Not sure anyone is saying that. IMO both teams are as 'big' as each other. Always have been.

 

[Hanauer]

Wednesday maybe a bigger club than us albeit slightly in the same way wolves are bigger than West brom, arsenal are bigger than Chelsea, man united are bigger than city, villa are bigger than Birmingham, forest are bigger than Leicester and derby , Leeds are bigger than Wednesday, Bolton are bigger than bury, Liverpool are bigger than Everton, in every city up and down the country the same argument will rage and the fans of each team will argue they are bigger and point to history, points won fan base etc, it's irrelevant and is completely down to perspective but in recent years based on trophies won and Cup finals reached and seasons in europe Wednesday are ahead of us what that means I'm not sure

Going on attendances, Man U are 12000 on average better than Man C, Wolves 2000 more than WBA which I am surprised at, Arsenal 3000 than Chelsea, Liverpool 3000 than Everton. Pigs just under 2000 more than us but with their honours record to be expected. However I was told years ago that Hillsborough had a big bearing on that. Much larger capacities ,especially for away fans, a great modern stadium throughout history until recently compared to our old 3 sided dilapidated arena. Can remember as a youngster going to the Sty to support the opposition in big games. Can remember Leeds, Liverpool, Man U, Man C, Birmingham and others filling the Leppings Lane end with 10000+ fans and masses on the Kop. We really need to break our 100 year hiatus from winning anything.

 

[Tarqs]

Going on attendances, Man U are 12000 on average better than Man C, Wolves 2000 more than WBA which I am surprised at, Arsenal 3000 than Chelsea, Liverpool 3000 than Everton. Pigs just under 2000 more than us but with their honours record to be expected. However I was told years ago that Hillsborough had a big bearing on that. Much larger capacities ,especially for away fans, a great modern stadium throughout history until recently compared to our old 3 sided dilapidated arena. Can remember as a youngster going to the Sty to support the opposition in big games. Can remember Leeds, Liverpool, Man U, Man C, Birmingham and others filling the Leppings Lane end with 10000+ fans and masses on the Kop. We really need to break our 100 year hiatus from winning anything.

Makes me laugh when you see fans od big rivalries segragated by a line of stewards and a few seats.

Yet we have to have a full block

 

[unitedbhoy]

I always thought “tracksuit from Matalan” was started at Luton away under Warnock. It was aimed at one of the better dressed home fans. And as for the blade dressed as spiderman…

Correct mate it was at Luton I remember it well

 

[Sheffsteel]

Correct mate it was at Luton I remember it well

I also remember the final home game against Crystal Palace, can’t remember the season.

And their goalie was wearing baggie grey tracksuit bottoms and the crowd kept taunting him with “tracksuit from Matalan” chants.

 

[unitedbhoy]

I also remember the final home game against Crystal Palace, can’t remember the season.

And their goalie was wearing baggie grey tracksuit bottoms and the crowd kept taunting him with “tracksuit from Matalan” chants.

Yes pal that palace game was straight after Luton away.

 

[GrayBlade]

Agree about perspective but that’s the point.

People at Jordan’s age…..50 years old and above will think Wednesday are bigger.
Where as people under 50 will think United are bigger.

The facts show overall, from 1890 to date…Wednesday edge United in virtually every big club stat but it’s very close….closer than what some people think.
Seasons in the top flight Sheff Wed 66 seasons Sheff Utd 63
Major trophies won Sheff Wed 7 Sheff Utd 5
Seasons in Europe Sheff Wed 2 Sheff Utd 0
Historical average attendances 21.5K Sheff Utd 19.5K

However this century, since 2000, the last 26 years…..which is quite a large sample size.
United edge Wednesday in every big club stat, bigger attendances, better league and cup record, better finances, etc.

So it depends how much weighting/ importance is given to recent history.
Surely recent history is more important that something that happened 100 years ago?

Precisely, and to be honest, the fact that they’ve got to go back nearly 60 years to even average more than twenty odd thousand at home whatever division they were in, takes care of a big chunk of the older bragging rights as well. Very few Wednesday fans will be able to recall the Sty more than 3/4 full every game, even 60 year olds. The stories that they’ve been spouting to the media and other fans of late are basically family history, myths and downright lies.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Precisely, and to be honest, the fact that they’ve got to go back nearly 60 years to even average more than twenty odd thousand at home whatever division they were in, takes care of a big chunk of the older bragging rights as well. Very few Wednesday fans will be able to recall the Sty more than 3/4 full every game, even 60 year olds. The stories that they’ve been spouting to the media and other fans of late are basically family history, myths and downright lies.

Another unusual fact is that Wednesday have never in their history had an average gate more than 80% of their stadium capacity.
This fact proves that their ground has always been too big for them.

Also since 1960…..Wednesday have challenged for the title (in the early 60’s and early 90’s), been in several cup finals (in 1966, 1991 and 1993 twice)
Yet in all that time (65 years) have only averaged over 30K TWICE. With all that success they averaged 30,219 in 1967 and 31,461 in 1967.

History shows that for 1 off games they can pull impressive crowds but they’ve never come close to filling their stadium on a regular basis.

 

[Hanauer]

The last two were only because they got to the FA Cup Final. The averages the season before and after were - 22000 and 26000. They've averaged 30K the same number of times we have, but 7 of their were in consecutive seasons 1948/55, in the remaining 150 years they've done it 3 times.

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

If it makes them happy, it could be argued they are slightly bigger. Now can we concentrate on the job in hand. Us pushing for play offs, them to 3rd tier oblivion and taking thousands to Bromley.

 

[Flumps]

It makes me chuckle to see grown fans arguing the toss over whos the bigger club between two average clubs. If you have to go back 100 years and find out one Saturday they had 4 more fans than us then it really isn't worth giving a shit about is it.

Neither of these clubs are "big" we're both championship at best. It's like arguing who's sausage roll is bigger from Greggs.

 

[Frank the tank]

It makes me chuckle to see grown fans arguing the toss over whos the bigger club between two average clubs. If you have to go back 100 years and find out one Saturday they had 4 more fans than us then it really isn't worth giving a shit about is it.

Neither of these clubs are "big" we're both championship at best. It's like arguing who's sausage roll is bigger from Greggs.

Is anyone arguing who's bigger
More the fact that they aren't a big club but constantly saying they are

 

[GrayBlade]

Another unusual fact is that Wednesday have never in their history had an average gate more than 80% of their stadium capacity.
This fact proves that their ground has always been too big for them.

Also since 1960…..Wednesday have challenged for the title (in the early 60’s and early 90’s), been in several cup finals (in 1966, 1991 and 1993 twice)
Yet in all that time (65 years) have only averaged over 30K TWICE. With all that success they averaged 30,219 in 1967 and 31,461 in 1967.

History shows that for 1 off games they can pull impressive crowds but they’ve never come close to filling their stadium on a regular basis.

And of course it’s the 1 off gates when they dragged old uncle Judd along that they say were their average back in the day. When all the takeover guff started, one of them on Twitter was spouting about pushing fifty odd thousand gates regularly in the early 70’s so I checked. They did get a 47k gate in 1971 but their lowest that season was 9k and their average was 15k. I presented him with the facts… he blocked me

 

[Maidenhead]

Well I'm not sure how old you are but if you can recall united getting to 3 cup finals and winning one and playing in Europe in your lifetime then fair play

All so last century

 

[Nick Jansky]

And of course it’s the 1 off gates when they dragged old uncle Judd along that they say were their average back in the day. When all the takeover guff started, one of them on Twitter was spouting about pushing fifty odd thousand gates regularly in the early 70’s so I checked. They did get a 47k gate in 1971 but their lowest that season was 9k and their average was 15k. I presented him with the facts… he blocked me

Yep, they’re not too keen on facts.

 

[I should coco]

It makes me chuckle to see grown fans arguing the toss over whos the bigger club between two average clubs. If you have to go back 100 years and find out one Saturday they had 4 more fans than us then it really isn't worth giving a shit about is it.

Neither of these clubs are "big" we're both championship at best. It's like arguing who's sausage roll is bigger from Greggs.

Go on.

I'll take the tap in...

'Sausage, sausage Rohl'.

 

[Sheffsteel]

It makes me chuckle to see grown fans arguing the toss over whos the bigger club between two average clubs. If you have to go back 100 years and find out one Saturday they had 4 more fans than us then it really isn't worth giving a shit about is it.

Neither of these clubs are "big" we're both championship at best. It's like arguing who's sausage roll is bigger from Greggs.

That’s not quite accurate though is it?

Based on the “big club” stats…..so that’s trophies, attendances, seasons in the top flight etc
Sheffield Wednesday are generally about 14th biggest club in England….and we are usually 18th or 19th biggest club in England….this puts both in the top 20.

Both Sheffield clubs have spent most of their history in the top flight…..so logically we are both historically considered top flight clubs.

This isn’t based on opinion……it’s based on fact.
However as mentioned….its based on overall history with no weighting towards recent history or present day.
I’ve heard some say Brentford and Bournemouth are both bigger clubs than us….i know what they mean but for most of history
Barnsley, Doncaster and maybe even Rotherham were always bigger clubs than Bournmouth.

I remember the 1970’s and my grandad….said when he was growing up United had spent almost their whole history in the top flight
And being in the 2nd tier was considered an embarrassment. Just shows how times have changed.

Since the war both Sheffield clubs (especially United) have severely underperformed….its a disgrace really.

 

[Sportbilly /Detroit Blade]

It makes me chuckle to see grown fans arguing the toss over whos the bigger club between two average clubs. If you have to go back 100 years and find out one Saturday they had 4 more fans than us then it really isn't worth giving a shit about is it.

Neither of these clubs are "big" we're both championship at best. It's like arguing who's sausage roll is bigger from Greggs.

Slap your sausage roll on the counter and let's have a measure up!

 

[madeinsheffield]

Wilder said in an interview last week that we’re a top 25 club, I think that’s a good description. Currently underperforming over the season but heading in the right direction.

 

[Champagneblade]

Agree about perspective but that’s the point.

People at Jordan’s age…..50 years old and above will think Wednesday are bigger.
Where as people under 50 will think United are bigger.

The facts show overall, from 1890 to date…Wednesday edge United in virtually every big club stat but it’s very close….closer than what some people think.
Seasons in the top flight Sheff Wed 66 seasons Sheff Utd 63
Major trophies won Sheff Wed 7 Sheff Utd 5
Seasons in Europe Sheff Wed 2 Sheff Utd 0
Historical average attendances 21.5K Sheff Utd 19.5K

However this century, since 2000, the last 26 years…..which is quite a large sample size.
United edge Wednesday in every big club stat, bigger attendances, better league and cup record, better finances, etc.

So it depends how much weighting/ importance is given to recent history.
Surely recent history is more important that something that happened 100 years ago?

Let’s not forget either they had a 22 year head start to beef up those stats at a time when more than about 6 clubs could win stuff. That ship has sailed.

It would be a miracle now for either club to add to their honours in terms of actual trophies.

Also worth noting that the legacy of this season for them could be long. Many fans decided to stay away. They weren’t just waiting by the phone for Chansiri to go. They got to doing other activities. Not all of them will come back.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Agree about perspective but that’s the point.

People at Jordan’s age…..50 years old and above will think Wednesday are bigger.
Where as people under 50 will think United are bigger.

The facts show overall, from 1890 to date…Wednesday edge United in virtually every big club stat but it’s very close….closer than what some people think.
Seasons in the top flight Sheff Wed 66 seasons Sheff Utd 63
Major trophies won Sheff Wed 7 Sheff Utd 5
Seasons in Europe Sheff Wed 2 Sheff Utd 0
Historical average attendances 21.5K Sheff Utd 19.5K

However this century, since 2000, the last 26 years…..which is quite a large sample size.
United edge Wednesday in every big club stat, bigger attendances, better league and cup record, better finances, etc.

So it depends how much weighting/ importance is given to recent history.
Surely recent history is more important that something that happened 100 years ago?

Historical stats are also looked at through a modern analytical prism and thus lack accuracy and validity. They're oft cited out of context. An example of that is trophy hierarchy:

Sheffield United have won the most important trophy in English football more times than Sheffield Wednesday. That's a fact that is given no weight in the above list of facts and figures. A contemporary lens would actually flip my point because looked at through a modern prism the league is much bigger than the FA Cup. Neither club has won the league when the modern primacy of the league has any relevance to the debate. Wednesday, if much bigger than United, have to answer this huge question: why have United won the bigger trophy more times when all the big trophies in Sheffield were won? More finals too.

The same applies to the league cup: the early 1990s version is by no means the modern version in terms of importance. Context...

United have also won the war time top flight and been Champions of Great Britain (after defeating Celtic) which is given no weight whatever. Likewise with our Sheffield derby domination which is preeminent in Sheffield.

To counter my own points somewhat, United don't have any modern FA Cup finals. 1966, in particular, when the Cup was still huge, is something they can rightfully crow about.

Considering the history of Bramall Lane (self sabotage on our part) and Hillsborough (and its historically huge Lep Lane away end) it's remarkable that the crowds are so close. We were knocking our stadium down (or having it bombed) when they were getting grants to make it better and more attractive to punters.

 

[Bertie Mee]

Stick that up your arse Simon Jordan