CONFIRMED Slaviša Jokanović

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BigBed said:
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Booker4 said:
A few have said this "Wilder went out the back door" when I disagreed many laughed at my perspective. But just exactly did Wilder leave through the back door? Because he didn't stay the season? Because he resigned? The way I see it, whether you agree with Wilder's likely perspective or not, the job became untenable he was no longer able to bring in players of his choice - not only in January but it seems with lack of JOC replacement - we know we're going down, why stick about when the ownership have a different vision "the plan" as Wilder called it. Near the end it just looked like Wilder was at the end of his tether and why, under those circumstances, continue when he would have known he'd have been going in the summer anyway. I'd love to think if I was manager of United I'd have stayed unless sacked, but in reality none of the fans know how things behind the scenes went so wrong, I suspect Wilder just didn't see any point in staying any longer.

As for Wilder at West Brom, I think many of us thought that was the likely destination if Big Sam left. Wilder leaving always meant that realistically he could well have been a rival to United next season. It will be fascinating to see how he does there, I expect West Brom to be promoted if he does go there, but in my view bar Periera, who'll be leaving, our squad is as good, if not better than there's. I can't see any of our better players going there unless our new manager doesn't want them, in which case selling to a rival club isn't good business in any case. I wish Wilder all the best there, unless WBA take our promotion place! I don't particularly like Albion, always preferred Wolves out of the two black country clubs, he'd be moving to a smaller club than United going there in my view, but maybe one which he can achieve his vision of managing long term in the PL.
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I'd disagree and say the job became untenable because we lost nearly every fucking game before the January resignation
 
Bladey_blade said:
I'd disagree and say the job became untenable because we lost nearly every fucking game before the January resignation
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The job wasn't untenable because we lost almost every game, it should have been though, you are correct.

However myself and others were set for the drop, had accepted it and were looking forward to wilder marching us back however long it would have took.. Nobody I knew dare say we should get rid of him, the support was 100% in my blades circle, not a flicker of doubt..

But something else has happened meaning Wilder was losing some control over something, possibly player recruitment, which is a deal breaker in wilders own words from previous interviews and newspaper columns..

We can only wait to hear what the issue was, and at some point wilder will have his say, but wilder did go out the back door in the end.... Facts are facts, the chairman, fans and players wanted him to stay, he wanted out, and as he's always done he got his own way..
 
Bladey_blade said:
I'd disagree and say the job became untenable because we lost nearly every fucking game before the January resignation
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Was going to say exactly this!

I got into an argument with some bellend in the comments section of an article in The Athletic who was claiming we'd played really well, were just unlucky and shouldn't have sacked Wilder!

2 points from the first 18 Fucking games!!!

That's why his position was untenable, that's why he lost the plot, that's why the whole thing imploded.
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
Was going to say exactly this!

I got into an argument with some bellend in the comments section of an article in The Athletic who was claiming we'd played really well, were just unlucky and shouldn't have sacked Wilder!

2 points from the first 18 Fucking games!!!

That's why his position was untenable, that's why he lost the plot, that's why the whole thing imploded.
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Without wanting to argue, I can see this argument to start with. At the beginning of the season we weren't too bad. We did, however, miss some huge chances (can think of 2/3 from Lunny alone). We also had some "questionable" decisions go against us (Egan's red) and then whatever curse befell us at West Brom plus the mounting injuries which we hadn't really had to deal with before. All of this while bedding in a young keeper (who now looks incredible).

After this you could almost see the players start to BELIEVE that something bad was going to happen as opposed to the last few seasons where they BELIEVEED something would fall for them.

All combined it makes the perfect storm, especially when signings don't quite work out immediately. Ignoring all other factors that's why I hope Jokanovic is named as the mentality looks the main thing and a big character can help with that.

BTW, when I say mentality I don't mean "not trying". I think they are, its like if I ask you to do something and you expect it to work, you will perform much better than if I tell you that it sometimes malfunctions and may explode in your hands.
 
Stannington Blade said:
Without wanting to argue, I can see this argument to start with. At the beginning of the season we weren't too bad. We did, however, miss some huge chances (can think of 2/3 from Lunny alone). We also had some "questionable" decisions go against us (Egan's red) and then whatever curse befell us at West Brom plus the mounting injuries which we hadn't really had to deal with before. All of this while bedding in a young keeper (who now looks incredible).

After this you could almost see the players start to BELIEVE that something bad was going to happen as opposed to the last few seasons where they BELIEVEED something would fall for them.

All combined it makes the perfect storm, especially when signings don't quite work out immediately. Ignoring all other factors that's why I hope Jokanovic is named as the mentality looks the main thing and a big character can help with that.

BTW, when I say mentality I don't mean "not trying". I think they are, its like if I ask you to do something and you expect it to work, you will perform much better than if I tell you that it sometimes malfunctions and may explode in your hands.
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Trying to keep it on topic - I'd like to think whoever we appoint as manager next would have tried something different (formation/personnel) long before we get to 18 games having only taken 2 bastard points!!

It was the stubborness and futility of taking 2 points from 18 games yet picking the same players in the same formation that was driving me potty!
 
This weekend Belgian league is finished. If Blessin and Clement are serious contenders next to SJ then things can come to a close after the weekend. Surely they have parallel negotiations with several candidates and then pick the best option.
 

Tezza1889 said:
The job wasn't untenable because we lost almost every game, it should have been though, you are correct.

However myself and others were set for the drop, had accepted it and were looking forward to wilder marching us back however long it would have took.. Nobody I knew dare say we should get rid of him, the support was 100% in my blades circle, not a flicker of doubt..

But something else has happened meaning Wilder was losing some control over something, possibly player recruitment, which is a deal breaker in wilders own words from previous interviews and newspaper columns..

We can only wait to hear what the issue was, and at some point wilder will have his say, but wilder did go out the back door in the end.... Facts are facts, the chairman, fans and players wanted him to stay, he wanted out, and as he's always done he got his own way..
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I think to say he left through the back door without knowing all of the facts is harsh in the extreme. It's very easy for us as fans to say we'd never leave etc, he should have stayed and gone down with the good ship Wilder, rather than leaving his players. But I cannot imagine the pressure he'll have been under this season from many aspects, including his own expectation and desperation to succeed for the club he loves. Then there's the obvious problems with the board, and as I said previously it's highly likely that that the job became untenable, and not because of results, the Prince said that much himself even if we lost every game Wilder retained the club's support.

The recruitment side of it was clearly a problem, and ultimately any manager who can't bring in who he wants to may as well call it a day because a managers success is largely based on who he brings in. As I said, why was Wilder not able to bring in a replacement for JOC?! Everyone knew it was pivotal to replace him, not go with Robinson and Kean Bryan who'd never played for us in the league. Wilder made it clear that we needed someone. So every week we're losing and Wilder must have been sat there thinking he's gonna take the rap for this, yet he couldn't bring in who he needed/wanted and we obviously missed out on numerous players due to wages, Robinson from Wigan seemed destined to come to us, but that didn't happen either. That's only one transfer with the lack of JOC replacement, it seems the board and Wilder couldn't go on any longer with different visions, why should Wilder stay if his boss isn't allowing him to do the job - as Wilder would see it. He's under an agreement where he can't say anything, or lose out on his settlement, I think we need to hear Wilder's side before deciding he walked out of the back door. What do fans want, Wilder to knock out the Prince in the car park, storm off to Alan Biggs and spill the beans on it all just so we know he cares and Wilder didn't want to leave?! He left/offered his resignation before (it appears) because his job was impossible as he would see it, I very much doubt that he'd ever resign if he thought he could do the job as he wanted. I don't blame him at all for leaving when he did, or how he did it.

Your last part is a massive assumption also. "wilder got his own way". I think the fact that Wilder became unhappy was because it was obvious he wasn't getting his own way. I'm not so sure that the Prince wanted him to stay, we all know the Prince is very clever with the press/what he says to fans. He appears very savvy to me and I think he knew that by saying in the interview that Wilder wanted to resign made it out that Wilder's a quitter, but of course what the Prince doesn't say was all the reasons why Wilder wanted to resign. At best, the Prince only wanted Wilder to stay if Wilder was to compromise on recruitment and the Prince to have a greater say in it; i.e his list of players essentially, or certainly his players to be considered far more, it would only be a matter of time before that blew up, if it hadn't already with Lingard. Yes it's football, it's emotional and not like working for any other line of business, but ultimately if your boss won't allow to do the job as you want to, why stay? I would imagine by the end Wilder was totally at the end of his tether and quite frankly needed that break, rather than continue to the end in a job that was untenable and then knowing he was going to leave at the end of the season anyway because there was clearly no way the Prince was going to stick to the way it was before with Wilder in total control of team affairs.
 
Booker4 said:
I think to say he left through the back door without knowing all of the facts is harsh in the extreme. It's very easy for us as fans to say we'd never leave etc, he should have stayed and gone down with the good ship Wilder, rather than leaving his players. But I cannot imagine the pressure he'll have been under this season from many aspects, including his own expectation and desperation to succeed for the club he loves. Then there's the obvious problems with the board, and as I said previously it's highly likely that that the job became untenable, and not because of results, the Prince said that much himself even if we lost every game Wilder retained the club's support.

The recruitment side of it was clearly a problem, and ultimately any manager who can't bring in who he wants to may as well call it a day because a managers success is largely based on who he brings in. As I said, why was Wilder not able to bring in a replacement for JOC?! Everyone knew it was pivotal to replace him, not go with Robinson and Kean Bryan who'd never played for us in the league. Wilder made it clear that we needed someone. So every week we're losing and Wilder must have been sat there thinking he's gonna take the rap for this, yet he couldn't bring in who he needed/wanted and we obviously missed out on numerous players due to wages, Robinson from Wigan seemed destined to come to us, but that didn't happen either. That's only one transfer with the lack of JOC replacement, it seems the board and Wilder couldn't go on any longer with different visions, why should Wilder stay if his boss isn't allowing him to do the job - as Wilder would see it. He's under an agreement where he can't say anything, or lose out on his settlement, I think we need to hear Wilder's side before deciding he walked out of the back door. What do fans want, Wilder to knock out the Prince in the car park, storm off to Alan Biggs and spill the beans on it all just so we know he cares and Wilder didn't want to leave?! He left/offered his resignation before (it appears) because his job was impossible as he would see it, I very much doubt that he'd ever resign if he thought he could do the job as he wanted. I don't blame him at all for leaving when he did, or how he did it.

Your last part is a massive assumption also. "wilder got his own way". I think the fact that Wilder became unhappy was because it was obvious he wasn't getting his own way. I'm not so sure that the Prince wanted him to stay, we all know the Prince is very clever with the press/what he says to fans. He appears very savvy to me and I think he knew that by saying in the interview that Wilder wanted to resign made it out that Wilder's a quitter, but of course what the Prince doesn't say was all the reasons why Wilder wanted to resign. At best, the Prince only wanted Wilder to stay if Wilder was to compromise on recruitment and the Prince to have a greater say in it; i.e his list of players essentially, or certainly his players to be considered far more, it would only be a matter of time before that blew up, if it hadn't already with Lingard. Yes it's football, it's emotional and not like working for any other line of business, but ultimately if your boss won't allow to do the job as you want to, why stay? I would imagine by the end Wilder was totally at the end of his tether and quite frankly needed that break, rather than continue to the end in a job that was untenable and then knowing he was going to leave at the end of the season anyway because there was clearly no way the Prince was going to stick to the way it was before with Wilder in total control of team affairs.
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I'm sorry but 2 points from 18 games - you lose all right to make demands or get cob on with your boss. And if you believe the difference between finishing 9th and 2 points before Christmas is one player getting injured then wow...

That's the point you show humility, admit it's not going well, own the issues and work as a team with those around you to put a plan in place to improve...

Anything else is leaving by the back door...
 
I can understand people supporting Wilder, indeed I did whilst we were successful but asked questions when after only securing a few points he left himself open to criticism.
He kept the same team with the same formation.
His signings were woeful, proven by the fact that he in the main used the same players that got us promotion.
People insist on saying that he was not allowed to sign a JOC replacement yet subsequent to the time he was required Wilder wasted money on Lowe, Bogle and Brewster none of whom featured on a regular basis in the team
 
PurpleRain said:
This weekend Belgian league is finished. If Blessin and Clement are serious contenders next to SJ then things can come to a close after the weekend. Surely they have parallel negotiations with several candidates and then pick the best option.
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How is Blessin a serious contender?
 
bertieblade said:
I can understand people supporting Wilder, indeed I did whilst we were successful but asked questions when after only securing a few points he left himself open to criticism.
He kept the same team with the same formation.
His signings were woeful, proven by the fact that he in the main used the same players that got us promotion.
People insist on saying that he was not allowed to sign a JOC replacement yet subsequent to the time he was required Wilder wasted money on Lowe, Bogle and Brewster none of whom featured on a regular basis in the team
Click to expand...

They knew JOC wasn't right at the end of last season post lockdown. Look at JOC's performance away at Burnley, he was clearly struggling.
 
bertieblade said:
I can understand people supporting Wilder, indeed I did whilst we were successful but asked questions when after only securing a few points he left himself open to criticism.
He kept the same team with the same formation.
His signings were woeful, proven by the fact that he in the main used the same players that got us promotion.
People insist on saying that he was not allowed to sign a JOC replacement yet subsequent to the time he was required Wilder wasted money on Lowe, Bogle and Brewster none of whom featured on a regular basis in the team
Click to expand...

We did buy Robinson and Lowe, loan Ampadu at whatever cost to add to Bryan, Stevens, Osborn and at a push RND - so it's not like we were short of left sided defenders to cover JOC... As I mention above losing JOC isn't the reason went from 9th to bottom...

Back on topic - a manager who can build a balanced squad and not have 6 LBs, 7 strikers and 3 centre midfielders gets my vote...
 
Booker4 said:
I think to say he left through the back door without knowing all of the facts is harsh in the extreme. It's very easy for us as fans to say we'd never leave etc, he should have stayed and gone down with the good ship Wilder, rather than leaving his players. But I cannot imagine the pressure he'll have been under this season from many aspects, including his own expectation and desperation to succeed for the club he loves. Then there's the obvious problems with the board, and as I said previously it's highly likely that that the job became untenable, and not because of results, the Prince said that much himself even if we lost every game Wilder retained the club's support.

The recruitment side of it was clearly a problem, and ultimately any manager who can't bring in who he wants to may as well call it a day because a managers success is largely based on who he brings in. As I said, why was Wilder not able to bring in a replacement for JOC?! Everyone knew it was pivotal to replace him, not go with Robinson and Kean Bryan who'd never played for us in the league. Wilder made it clear that we needed someone. So every week we're losing and Wilder must have been sat there thinking he's gonna take the rap for this, yet he couldn't bring in who he needed/wanted and we obviously missed out on numerous players due to wages, Robinson from Wigan seemed destined to come to us, but that didn't happen either. That's only one transfer with the lack of JOC replacement, it seems the board and Wilder couldn't go on any longer with different visions, why should Wilder stay if his boss isn't allowing him to do the job - as Wilder would see it. He's under an agreement where he can't say anything, or lose out on his settlement, I think we need to hear Wilder's side before deciding he walked out of the back door. What do fans want, Wilder to knock out the Prince in the car park, storm off to Alan Biggs and spill the beans on it all just so we know he cares and Wilder didn't want to leave?! He left/offered his resignation before (it appears) because his job was impossible as he would see it, I very much doubt that he'd ever resign if he thought he could do the job as he wanted. I don't blame him at all for leaving when he did, or how he did it.

Your last part is a massive assumption also. "wilder got his own way". I think the fact that Wilder became unhappy was because it was obvious he wasn't getting his own way. I'm not so sure that the Prince wanted him to stay, we all know the Prince is very clever with the press/what he says to fans. He appears very savvy to me and I think he knew that by saying in the interview that Wilder wanted to resign made it out that Wilder's a quitter, but of course what the Prince doesn't say was all the reasons why Wilder wanted to resign. At best, the Prince only wanted Wilder to stay if Wilder was to compromise on recruitment and the Prince to have a greater say in it; i.e his list of players essentially, or certainly his players to be considered far more, it would only be a matter of time before that blew up, if it hadn't already with Lingard. Yes it's football, it's emotional and not like working for any other line of business, but ultimately if your boss won't allow to do the job as you want to, why stay? I would imagine by the end Wilder was totally at the end of his tether and quite frankly needed that break, rather than continue to the end in a job that was untenable and then knowing he was going to leave at the end of the season anyway because there was clearly no way the Prince was going to stick to the way it was before with Wilder in total control of team affairs.
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If we were sat in 9th place come january 1st, and not rock bottom setting records the problems with the board would be non issues. When you fail as badly as Wilder did the first half of the season in any job your boss has the right to ask questions! It was the results that caused the tensions not the other way round. And if you genuinely think wilder offered another realistic JOC replacement and was knocked back but next minute asked for 23million brewster to compete with 5 other strikers and it was granted, you're having yourself on.
If he hadn't got credit in the bank hed have been sacked in October.
 
ChuntyMalone said:
It got explained to me when I worked at Betfred years ago. Something to do with the odds being based around the stake needed to win 100 quid, or something like that. That doesn't seem to make sense now though. Anyway, glad to be of assistance! ☺️
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🤣🤣👍🏻
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
We did buy Robinson and Lowe, loan Ampadu at whatever cost to add to Bryan, Stevens, Osborn and at a push RND - so it's not like we were short of left sided defenders to cover JOC... As I mention above losing JOC isn't the reason went from 9th to bottom...

Back on topic - a manager who can build a balanced squad and not have 6 LBs, 7 strikers and 3 centre midfielders gets my vote...
Click to expand...

Losing JOC was a huge reason that we struggled. The amount of goals we conceded down that side in the early stages of the season. We suddenly looked an open shop. We lost a lot of aerial presence & had next to no physicality at the back. Once those games were lost we struggled to ever recover.
 
CaptainMorgans said:
Losing JOC was a huge reason that we struggled. The amount of goals we conceded down that side in the early stages of the season. We suddenly looked an open shop. We lost a lot of aerial presence & had next to no physicality at the back. Once those games were lost we struggled to ever recover.
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Playing devil's advocate: if it was that huge a loss why didn't we change the formation the mitigate that loss?

I'd concur that losing JOC didn't make the system anywhere near as effective - but why not change the system??

Like I keep saying, I hope we find a new manager who isn't as rigid as the previous one and we can flex and adapt tactics and shape as required...
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
Playing devil's advocate: if it was that huge a loss why didn't we change the formation the mitigate that loss?

I'd concur that losing JOC didn't make the system anywhere near as effective - but why not change the system??

Like I keep saying, I hope we find a new manager who isn't as rigid as the previous one and we can flex and adapt tactics and shape as required...
Click to expand...

I think in some ways Wilder was unlucky this season to also lose Robinson to injury. His performance against Everton showed he could fill JOC's role if played regularly.

That said I agree Wilder could and should have changed the system as we have not had a fully fit LCB all season. JOC, Robbo and Bryan have all been injured at some point.
 

Bladesman said:
I think in some ways Wilder was unlucky this season to also lose Robinson to injury. His performance against Everton showed he could fill JOC's role if played regularly.

That said I agree Wilder could and should have changed the system as we have not had a fully fit LCB all season. JOC, Robbo and Bryan have all been injured at some point.
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Did we ever find out what Robinson's injury was?
 
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