I trust him absolutely

[JohnDenver]

Absolute Howler ????

All three you mention worthy of said title.

I might be in a club of 1, but I could throw in Henegan, Lavery, Hanson, Thomas, Ched (?), Holmes, etc. Etc.

It’s somewhat an irrelevance.

But the point I was wanting to make is that Wilder makes mistakes. We all do.

Let’s not put him on a pedestal. It’s a dangerous place to be in football

UTB

I partly agree with the main point. But I think it’s wholly unrealistic to declare the players in your list as howlers. None were budget busting, none were supposedly lynchpin signings, two actually contributed to a promotion, and the others were spins of the wheel.

So yeah, let’s not put the manager on a pedestal, but let’s not apply computer game standards to judging how easy budget recruitment actually is.

 

[DronnieBlade]

I partly agree with the main point. But I think it’s wholly unrealistic to declare the players in your list as howlers. None were budget busting, none were supposedly lynchpin signings, two actually contributed to a promotion, and the others were spins of the wheel.

So yeah, let’s not put the manager on a pedestal, but let’s not apply computer game standards to judging how easy budget recruitment actually is.

So can I have Wilson as the absolute Howler then ?

UTB

 

[JohnDenver]

So can I have Wilson as the absolute Howler then ?

UTB

I’ll think about it.

 

[DronnieBlade]

I partly agree with the main point. But I think it’s wholly unrealistic to declare the players in your list as howlers. None were budget busting, none were supposedly lynchpin signings, two actually contributed to a promotion, and the others were spins of the wheel.

So yeah, let’s not put the manager on a pedestal, but let’s not apply computer game standards to judging how easy budget recruitment actually is.

Henegan Was £400k.
Hanson was £200k.
Holmes was £450k.
Ched was about £300k.
Thomas around £500k (?).
Lavery would have been six figures.

Not astronomical amounts I’ll concede but, given the available budget, and the transfer market conditions at the time, hardly insignificant either.

No one is suggesting it’s easy. And I don’t have the time for computer based football manager Shyte !!

But the fact is that Wilder INHERITED the nucleus of the side that has been successful for him, and his own transfer dealings have been rather hit and miss.

I would love to know how involved or centric he was to Flecks capture as this happened very quickly after he took the reigns, which suggests the wheels were in motion beforehand.

JOC is a fantastic signing. Cap doffed.

Clarke. Mmmmmm. This is where I’ll be at odds with the majority. I’ll state here and now that he has had at least as many poor games for us as good ones. But he cost £150k from Bury so I’ll give Wilder that one.

Baldock is a good signing.

Stearman is adequate but wasn’t cheap.

Evans and Lundstram are both good ballers, but ultimately they are cover for the Scottish Pirlo and the Scottish Iniesta.

I could go on. But wont.

If I recall the team vs Bristol last match of the season, only Moore, Stevens, JOC, Stears,and Evans are Wilder signing. And Coutts would always start ahead of Evans so realistically this is 7 of the 11 that started 2 years after Tufty came in are either Clough or Adkins captures.

UTB

 

[Ricky]

Clarke. Mmmmmm. This is where I’ll be at odds with the majority. I’ll state here and now that he has had at least as many poor games for us as good ones. But he cost £150k from Bury so I’ll give Wilder that one.

He scored 19 last season and a matchwinning brace at Hillsborough but you'll just "give Wilder that one"....

 

[DronnieBlade]

He scored 19 last season and a matchwinning brace at Hillsborough but you'll just "give Wilder that one"....

You know your Stuff. You watch it home and away.

Seriously, and without an agenda, what ratio of “good to poor” games would YOU have Clarke down for ??

UTB

 

[Ricky]

You know your Stuff. You watch it home and away.

Seriously, and without an agenda, what ratio of “good to poor” games would YOU have Clarke down for ??

UTB

Firstly, I'll discount his early appearances in L1 where he was carrying an injury and not at 100%.

Off the top of my head, I'd say he's at least 65-35 in favour.

Certainly a better ratio than Sharp last season.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Firstly, I'll discount his early appearances in L1 where he was carrying an injury and not at 100%.

Off the top of my head, I'd say he's at least 65-35 in favour.

Certainly a better ratio than Sharp last season.

Bollocks.

Be as selective as suits your point.

No agenda there then

We disagree. One of us is wrong !

UTB

PS I take it you missed my end of season Clarke vs Sharp in depth analysis ?
Technically Visibly Statistically

 

[Ricky]

Bollocks.

Be as selective as suits your point.

No agenda there then

We disagree. One of us is wrong !

UTB

PS I take it you missed my end of season Clarke vs Sharp in depth analysis ?
Technically Visibly Statistically

'As many poor games as good ones' is an absolute joke of a way to judge a 150k signing who had a very significant influential long spell of good form and an outstanding season overall - technically, visibly and statistically.

No agenda there then.

 

[Chali 2na]

Henegan Was £400k.
Hanson was £200k.
Holmes was £450k.
Ched was about £300k.
Thomas around £500k (?).
Lavery would have been six figures.

Not astronomical amounts I’ll concede but, given the available budget, and the transfer market conditions at the time, hardly insignificant either.

No one is suggesting it’s easy. And I don’t have the time for computer based football manager Shyte !!

But the fact is that Wilder INHERITED the nucleus of the side that has been successful for him, and his own transfer dealings have been rather hit and miss.

I would love to know how involved or centric he was to Flecks capture as this happened very quickly after he took the reigns, which suggests the wheels were in motion beforehand.

JOC is a fantastic signing. Cap doffed.

Clarke. Mmmmmm. This is where I’ll be at odds with the majority. I’ll state here and now that he has had at least as many poor games for us as good ones. But he cost £150k from Bury so I’ll give Wilder that one.

Baldock is a good signing.

Stearman is adequate but wasn’t cheap.

Evans and Lundstram are both good ballers, but ultimately they are cover for the Scottish Pirlo and the Scottish Iniesta.

I could go on. But wont.

If I recall the team vs Bristol last match of the season, only Moore, Stevens, JOC, Stears,and Evans are Wilder signing. And Coutts would always start ahead of Evans so realistically this is 7 of the 11 that started 2 years after Tufty came in are either Clough or Adkins captures.

UTB

You standards are completely skewed.

Who are you judging Wilder against?

 

[DronnieBlade]

You standards are completely skewed.

Who are you judging Wilder against?

Yes they are.

It’s called an opinion. Hope this helps

UTB

 

[DronnieBlade]

'As many poor games as good ones' is an absolute joke of a way to judge a 150k signing who had a very significant influential long spell of good form and an outstanding season overall - technically, visibly and statistically.

No agenda there then.

Consistency of performance levels is, categorically not, as you well know, a joke of a way to judge players. In fact it’s a benchmark.

Ask any professionally qualified coach !

UTB

 

[Ricky]

Consistency of performance levels is, categorically not, as you well know, a joke of a way to judge players. In fact it’s a benchmark.

Ask any professionally qualified coach !

UTB

There are far, far more expensive strikers in that league who've been far less consistent.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

View attachment 40952

Do they still do that in Scotland.

 

[SharpshootingBilly]

Henegan Was £400k.
Hanson was £200k.
Holmes was £450k.
Ched was about £300k.
Thomas around £500k (?).
Lavery would have been six figures.

Not astronomical amounts I’ll concede but, given the available budget, and the transfer market conditions at the time, hardly insignificant either.

No one is suggesting it’s easy. And I don’t have the time for computer based football manager Shyte !!

But the fact is that Wilder INHERITED the nucleus of the side that has been successful for him, and his own transfer dealings have been rather hit and miss.

I would love to know how involved or centric he was to Flecks capture as this happened very quickly after he took the reigns, which suggests the wheels were in motion beforehand.

JOC is a fantastic signing. Cap doffed.

Clarke. Mmmmmm. This is where I’ll be at odds with the majority. I’ll state here and now that he has had at least as many poor games for us as good ones. But he cost £150k from Bury so I’ll give Wilder that one.

Baldock is a good signing.

Stearman is adequate but wasn’t cheap.

Evans and Lundstram are both good ballers, but ultimately they are cover for the Scottish Pirlo and the Scottish Iniesta.

I could go on. But wont.

If I recall the team vs Bristol last match of the season, only Moore, Stevens, JOC, Stears,and Evans are Wilder signing. And Coutts would always start ahead of Evans so realistically this is 7 of the 11 that started 2 years after Tufty came in are either Clough or Adkins captures.

UTB

Forgive me, but I'm not sure I fully understand the point of your post. Are you trying to say that, whilst he has made some decent signings and some poor signings, a lot of the credit should go to Clough/Adkins for our success over the last couple of seasons?

To say he inherited this side isn't doing Wilder justice at all. How poor were the players and the team in general? Wilder changed Coutts from a winger to a top-class centre mid and Basham to an above-average/decent centre back.

 

[DronnieBlade]

There are far, far more expensive strikers in that league who've been far less consistent.

Never in doubt. A given.Hardly the point.

Clarke is the subject matter. Let’s focus on him.

Bluntly, he suffers from the what I will tongue in cheek refer to as Raheem Sterling syndrome. Fresh air shots are us

His ball / eye coordination is poor. This shows poor technical ability. It’s mildly amusing at the time but masks the truth for those with less educated eyeballs than my own !!

When have Coutts / Fleck / Duffy, our must technically excellent players ever done this ??

First touch of the football. With the aforementioned trio it’s controlled instantly, and in a way that positions the ball directly in front of kicking foot to be moved on. All in the blink of an eye. Often in tightly packed areas of the pitch. THATS the benchmark. Suffice that LCs first touch is sub standard.

I’m not wanting this to be LC bashing. It’s not intended that way. For £150k he has done well for us, overall although I do wish CW would hook him once in a blue moon !

But I will stand absolutely by my assertion of good / poor games ratio.

UTB

 

[I should coco]

Henegan Was £400k.
Hanson was £200k.
Holmes was £450k.
Ched was about £300k.
Thomas around £500k (?).
Lavery would have been six figures.

Henegan - jury still out but a long way from the first XI so looking like a 'miss'. At £200k and low wages he is hardly a 'howler'
Hanson - £200k and contributed to promotion. Worth every penny for that.
Holmes - Only started one game and was our best player. Getting on a bit, but jury still very much out.
Ched - Sadly it looks like the gamble has failed. I'll give him until Xmas before I confirm 'miss'.
Thomas - I thought he was around £300k. We will probably get £100k back, but still a 'miss'.
Lavery - see Hanson.

This 'misses' are part of the routine for a football manager. If don't buy a ticket, you can't win the raffle.

Old Red Nose signed Djemba Djemba, young Cruyff, £28m for Pedro Verde's nephew etc etc.

You said above that it is your opinion. You are of course entitled to this but myslef and others think you are being overly harsh.

Very harsh in fact.

 

[Ricky]

Never in doubt. A given.Hardly the point.

Clarke is the subject matter. Let’s focus on him.

Bluntly, he suffers from the what I will tongue in cheek refer to as Raheem Sterling syndrome. Fresh air shots are us

His ball / eye coordination is poor. This shows poor technical ability. It’s mildly amusing at the time but masks the truth for those with less educated eyeballs than my own !!

When have Coutts / Fleck / Duffy, our must technically excellent players ever done this ??

First touch of the football. With the aforementioned trio it’s controlled instantly, and in a way that positions the ball directly in front of kicking foot to be moved on. All in the blink of an eye. Often in tightly packed areas of the pitch. THATS the benchmark. Suffice that LCs first touch is sub standard.

I’m not wanting this to be LC bashing. It’s not intended that way. For £150k he has done well for us, overall although I do wish CW would hook him once in a blue moon !

But I will stand absolutely by my assertion of good / poor games ratio.

UTB

If we're talking about technical ability let's look at his two footedness. It's very impressive. It's hard to tell which his stronger foot is.

Compare to Fleck and Duffy, Fleck in particular, who I've seen pass up countless chances due to his refusal to use his right foot. If those two could use both feet half as well as Clarke does, they'd both be pushing double figures in the goalscoring charts.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Forgive me, but I'm not sure I fully understand the point of your post. Are you trying to say that, whilst he has made some decent signings and some poor signings, a lot of the credit should go to Clough/Adkins for our success over the last couple of seasons?

To say he inherited this side isn't doing Wilder justice at all. How poor were the players and the team in general? Wilder changed Coutts from a winger to a top-class centre mid and Basham to an above-average/decent centre back.

Yes.

And the evidence. 2 years on, is that the majority of the “nucleus” of the current squad are not Wilders signings. Which given the level of squad turnover typically seen when a new manager comes in is unusual.

I expect this window to possibly dramatically change this.

Nigel Clough gave us Paul Coutts.

Adkins, Sharp.

They were not all bad !

UTB

 

[DronnieBlade]

If we're talking about technical ability let's look at his two footedness. It's very impressive. It's hard to tell which his stronger foot is.

Compare to Fleck and Duffy, Fleck in particular, who I've seen pass up countless chances due to his refusal to use his right foot. If those two could use both feet half as well as Clarke does, they'd both be pushing double figures in the goalscoring charts.

So it matters not to you which foot Leon miscontrols it with then ?

I understand !

UTB

 

[DronnieBlade]

If we're talking about technical ability let's look at his two footedness. It's very impressive. It's hard to tell which his stronger foot is.

Compare to Fleck and Duffy, Fleck in particular, who I've seen pass up countless chances due to his refusal to use his right foot. If those two could use both feet half as well as Clarke does, they'd both be pushing double figures in the goalscoring charts.

When you have a wand / sat nav for a left peg, it matters relatively little that the right one is for standing on. Giggs managed fine. Glyn Hodges likewise.

UTB

 

[Chali 2na]

Yes they are.

It’s called an opinion. Hope this helps

UTB

Don't answer the question then.

 

[Ricky]

When you have a wand / sat nav for a left peg, it matters relatively little that the right one is for standing on. Giggs managed fine. Glyn Hodges likewise.

UTB

I think the sun shines out of his arse! But if we're talking about technical ability then Leon's two footedness can't be overlooked. It's a rare and valuable ability that more players should have.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Don't answer the question then.

Yes sir.

Shall I stand in the corner sir.

Don’t fucking tell me what to do or not to do.

Nothing personal. All blades.

UTB

 

[Chali 2na]

Yes sir.

Shall I stand in the corner sir.

Don’t fucking tell me what to do or not to do.

Nothing personal. All blades.

UTB

I never said you have to answer my question you drama queen - it's just telling you didn't.

I just thought it might help with the discussion, this is a football forum...

 

[DronnieBlade]

I think the sun shines out of his arse! But if we're talking about technical ability then Leon's two footedness can't be overlooked. It's a rare and valuable ability that more players should have.

On the 2 footedness I completely agree.

It is a rare commodity and one which is often overlooked. No doubts.

UTB

 

[DronnieBlade]

I never said you have to answer my question you drama queen - it's just telling you didn't.

I just thought it might help with the discussion, this is a football forum...

Let’s go for comparing him with the much maligned Nigel Clough. Who gave us Coutts, Freeman, Basham, Che.

Outstanding bargain basement buys.

Trump that.

UTB

 

[I should coco]

Don’t fucking tell me what to do or not to do.

I'm out.

I was enjoying a reasoned debate but now you're chucking your toys out I'll leave it there.

 

[DronnieBlade]

I'm out.

I was enjoying a reasoned debate but now you're chucking your toys out I'll leave it there.

Wasn’t directed at you. No need to respond.

UTB

 

[Chali 2na]

So ask me again. I missed it.

UTB

Who are you comparing Wilder to?

Its just you don't seem very satisfied with Wilder's transfer dealings, based on your posts on this thread. Is there a manger we've had who has performed to your standards, or are you the sort of person who is never pleased?