Design it Yourself Kop ..... a compromise solution?

[Ranmoorblade]

Read somewhere that the plan is

We have to get promoted to the PL and also stay up 1 season

Then work immediately starts on BOTH stands to be expanded at the same time.

There’s a fans meeting with McCabe soon, maybe someone could ask him about the stadium plans/ intentions.

If they start both sides at the same time our capacity would go down to under 15000 for a year in the Premiership.

 

[mosbolad]

 

[stringjunior]

If they start both sides at the same time our capacity would go down to under 15000 for a year in the Premiership.

Yet income from the premier league would be eleventy twelveteen gazillion pounds.

 

[diode_blade]

I should get a better camera mate, 8 bit pixel cameras are a thing of the past now.....

 

[Sheffsteel]

If they start both sides at the same time our capacity would go down to under 15000 for a year in the Premiership.

Im sure I’ve read it somewhere that the designs mean capacity isn’t reduced by that much.

Capacity reduction whilst building is happening is a massive issue,

We have over 20K season ticket holders and I believe must give away fans tickets too.
Imagine if home fans could only have 18K tickets.
Does the club turn away some proper fans (season tickets holders) for a full PL season?
Also no new/ casual (potential future supporters) fans could attend any matches for a full season.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Very interesting. In the interests of scientific accuracy, have you checked the average age of us sitters in the front part of the Kop? A lot of us moved into the best seats in our prime (after the 1994 relegation?), when they became available; many of us sit down through necessity and/ or respect for those sitting behind us. Seriously, though, excellent photos and thoughts.

 

[Ranmoorblade]

Yet income from the premier league would be eleventy twelveteen gazillion pounds.

Doesn’t matter about the 10000+ fans that would miss out then?

 

[Jon Bon II]

Get rid of that “pigs ear” of a corner stand while your at it.

If and when the kop gets done, that corner will be turned into executive boxes.

 

[stringjunior]

Doesn’t matter about the 10000+ fans that would miss out then?

Yes it does matter. Of course it does. However given there will be disruption to the fans whenever it is done, and given it is a purely business decision rather than an altruistic decision, doing it in a season when income is increased ten fold makes sense to me. All this assumes they do both sides at the same time as per your post. I don't imagine they would.

 

[bromtom]

From what I understand the south stand extension wouldn't affect capacity much if at all because it's backwards from the existing stand, the can build and do groundworks outside without touching the what's already there for a while.

The Kop depends on how much money there is to spend on it and what design they go for. If they're planning to use the existing concrete and add to it at the back, again they can start at the back work towards the existing stand, and then the roof would have to come off so that's an end of the season type thing, but working on the concourse areas and new stuff in the back during the season and then doing the rest in the break is feasible.

To be honest if they had enough money and the weather and stuff went for them, I think they could probably do the lot in a couple of months during the break.

I think if we fingers crossed touch wood and all that go up this season the Kop should be started immediately. They should have a plan now.

The south stand probably requires Premier League football to fill it if it got bigger, but more cheap seats and better amenities on the Kop would be good whatever league we're in.

 

[Ranmoorblade]

Yes it does matter. Of course it does. However given there will be disruption to the fans whenever it is done, and given it is a purely business decision rather than an altruistic decision, doing it in a season when income is increased ten fold makes sense to me. All this assumes they do both sides at the same time as per your post. I don't imagine they would.

No I can’t see them doing it together either, they’re two separate stands so no need.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Friday nites game was the first time since the Kop was seated that i have stood all game,i thought it would be a good idea as soon as it dawned that there would be no one sitting down,but being stood still made seeing the match action a neck craning exercise as the seat infront had a young girl in it and she had to stand on the seat all game,so she could see the match action.
Standing will only work for everyone if everyone was the same height.

 

[Sheffsteel]

No I can’t see them doing it together either, they’re two separate stands so no need.

I don’t think you’ re understandimg the designs.

They can do both stand together and there’s hardly any disruption.
The South stand keeps the same capacity and the Kop loses about 2000 seats at the back.

Other designs that have been suggested would mean capacity reduces to 20,000 for a full season in the PL.
We’d still have to give away fans 2,000 seats, so 18,000 seats left for home fans.

So you’d get a weird situation where current season ticket holders would NOT be able to see a single home match for a full year.
Also casual pay in the day fans would be refused too.
Enforcing fans to have a year away from football could mean we actually lose fans once the capacity is increased
because those previously loyal fans might have found something else to do on match day.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Friday nites game was the first time since the Kop was seated that i have stood all game,i thought it would be a good idea as soon as it dawned that there would be no one sitting down,but being stood still made seeing the match action a neck craning exercise as the seat infront had a young girl in it and she had to stand on the seat all game,so she could see the match action.
Standing will only work for everyone if everyone was the same height.

Standing also works better when the rake is steeper.
When it’s steep it doesn’t matter so much if someone in front is taller, you can still see over them.
The new plans for the back of the Kop are a steeper rake, so should be easier for all to see, although you will be miles from the pitch and the players might look like ants ha ha.

 

[Ranmoorblade]

I don’t think you’ re understandimg the designs.

They can do both stand together and there’s hardly any disruption.
The South stand keeps the same capacity and the Kop loses about 2000 seats at the back.

Other designs that have been suggested would mean capacity reduces to 20,000 for a full season in the PL.
We’d still have to give away fans 2,000 seats, so 18,000 seats left for home fans.

So you’d get a weird situation where current season ticket holders would NOT be able to see a single home match for a full year.
Also casual pay in the day fans would be refused too.
Enforcing fans to have a year away from football could mean we actually lose fans once the capacity is increased
because those previously loyal fans might have found something else to do on match day.

How do you know that’s the case?

 

[Ricky]

Standing will only work for everyone if everyone was the same height.

Or on stands that aren't built in the fucking stupid way our Kop was.

 

[Sheffsteel]

How do you know that’s the case?

I’m sure it was mentioned when the original Kop plans were announced years ago.

I’ll try to find something on it.
Would imagine it will be on an old thread on the forum at “footballgroundguide.com” site.
That’s a fantastic site regards football stadiums and there’s a forum on it with loads of info.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Or on stands that aren't built in the fucking stupid way our Kop was.

Totally agree.

What needs to happen as a compromise solution,is that the Kop needs a 50% complete rebuild at a rake of 45 degrees min.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

If and when the kop gets done, that corner will be turned into executive boxes.

Boxes at the back, still seating in front.

 

[Ricky]

Totally agree.

What needs to happen as a compromise solution,is that the Kop needs a 50% complete rebuild at a rake of 45 degrees min.

It would be better than the current plan. But as I said, I'd prefer us to rebuild it completely. We'll only regret not doing so at some point in the future. Increasing capacity shouldn't be a priority either. The rake is the main thing that needs addressing. And the removal of the poles obviously.

 

[Sheffsteel]

How do you know that’s the case?

I wrote this on another forum back in 2007.
McCabe was talking about the current Kop design on Radio Sheffield.

Kevin MacCabe (Sheffield United PLC chairman) last night announced during a live interview with BBC Radio Sheffield the following in respect of the stadium:

He said work to extend the back of the Kop should begin during the latter end of this season pending successful planning permission to be heard later this month and there would be only a limited effect on current capacity whilst rebuilding work is taking place. He expects the capacity to be 36K by 2008/09 and they are looking at costings to increase it further to 40K if and when England win a bid for the World Cup.

 

[Sheffsteel]

It would be better than the current plan. But as I said, I'd prefer us to rebuild it completely. We'll only regret not doing so at some point in the future. Increasing capacity shouldn't be a priority either. The rake is the main thing that needs addressing. And the removal of the poles obviously.

So Ricky would you be willing to volunteer to be banned from EVERY home match for 1 year?
Any rebuild designs mean only 18,000 fans can have season tickets.
Would you suggest a raffle to decide who gets a ticket?
Or a points system, that means all new season holders have to find something else to do for a season.

Also you have to consider that a rebuild would add millions to the cost, probably reduce capacity, lose revenue fora season and inconvenience/ piss off 1000’s of Blades. Doesn’t sound like good business to me.

 

[Ranmoorblade]

So Ricky would you be willing to volunteer to be banned from EVERY home match for 1 year?
Any rebuild designs mean only 18,000 fans can have season tickets.
Would you suggest a raffle to decide who gets a ticket?
Or a points system, that means all new season holders have to find something else to do for a season.

Also you have to consider that a rebuild would add millions to the cost, probably reduce capacity, lose revenue fora season and inconvenience/ piss off 1000’s of Blades. Doesn’t sound like good business to me.

How would songs get started if Ricky didn't go to the matches?

 

[Ricky]

So Ricky would you be willing to volunteer to be banned from EVERY home match for 1 year?
Any rebuild designs mean only 18,000 fans can have season tickets.
Would you suggest a raffle to decide who gets a ticket?
Or a points system, that means all new season holders have to find something else to do for a season.

Also you have to consider that a rebuild would add millions to the cost, probably reduce capacity, lose revenue fora season and inconvenience/ piss off 1000’s of Blades. Doesn’t sound like good business to me.

I'd miss every game if I had to but I wouldn't have to, nobody would. There are smarter solutions than that.

If the South Stand extension was done first, as it should be, that would add another 5,500 seats so the capacity minus the Kop would be about 27,500 - around our current average. Around 25,000 of our fans could still attend.

Business wise, I'd expect the ticket price per game to work out higher and other things to be put in place to minimise lost revenue.

In any case, what's worth a big outlay more than your own ground?

 

[Ranmoorblade]

I'd miss every game if I had to but I wouldn't have to, nobody would. There are smarter solutions than that.

If the South Stand extension was done first, as it should be, that would add another 5,500 seats so the capacity minus the Kop would be about 27,500 - around our current average. Around 25,000 of our fans could still attend.

Business wise, I'd expect the ticket price per game to work out higher and other things to be put in place to minimise lost revenue.

In any case, what's worth a big outlay more than your own ground?

I thought the South Stand development had a similar number of seats to now?

 

[DiggerBlade]

It's great reading the posts about Kop & ground redevelopment which proves we Blades are pretty house proud and rightly so. We've still got the tradional stadium look about us rather than the gold fish bowl design of so many clubs. I don't know about you but whenever I'm watching a game or interview at another club I tend to look at those grounds structures which give that all important football club profile. Interviewing players or managers pitch side you get that empty but expansive look or that closed in claustrophobic hemmed in feeling.

BDTBL has that open feel about it which looks clean and well maintained apart from the bogs as some have mentioned before but pitch side the Lane looks ferkin awesome.

One thing I did note from Friday's game with the sow's was Sky tv's aerial shots of the lane just before kickoff with the ground full. They've obviously used a drone for those images but the Lane looked absolutely beautiful and majestic fully under the floodlights. I've said before that Bramall Lane is one hell of a fantastic football stadium and I'm proud of it.

Great OP and any new developments will surely be done within keeping with the tradional feel of this BDTBL.

 

[ghandi]

Good morning after the night before all.

Last night, I sat high in the BLUT - the best seats in the house, I noticed a phenomenon opposite on the Kop. It allows me to illustrate my sketch idea for a modification of the design of any extension to the Kop that might satisfy both parties?

The problem is this .....

1. Kop sitters understand that the seats are uncomfortably close together and that the rake of the terraces is too shallow to afford a good view of the pitch.

2. The owners of SUFC don't want to demolish the existing hill but want to be able to increase it's seating capacity in the long term.

I took this photograph last night ....

View attachment 35739

if you can see, the spectators nearest to the back and the sides stood up all match so that they could see the action comfortably, the line of the standers formed a beautiful arc, which I trace out in this next image ....

View attachment 35740

this is why in stadium design you see the tops of the stands curved btw (Arsenal, Wembley etc.etc.)

In effect, then, the crowd yourselves made a stand that has a step about 1.7m high in an arc halfway up. So THAT is how you model the shape of an extension to it.

It ends up a bit like this sketch .....

View attachment 35741

I would tweak it a bit but basically the crowd itself has shown the architects and Kevin what shape the new extension should have. We leave the middle arched section of the Kop as it is .... the spectators show that they are 'happy' with it - we build the kop 1.5 to 2m higher around the curve but using cheap STRAIGHT terracing (kicked up at a slightly steeper pitch for a better view possibly) and extend at the back.

This is a compromise between 'our' desires for a more comfortable stand AND the scheme that has won planning approval .... it would be a minor amendment to that scheme and I believe might keep EVERYONE happy at a minor extra cost .... the walkways would remain the same with a staircase at the point of the step. It even echoes the old 'canyon' across the old standing kop, beloved of us old boys - because it gave us a better view ........

Ladies and Gentlemen, I move ...... I'll do a better sketch if anyone is interested?

McCabe will put you in touch with his architects and they will take no notice just as they did with John St. Stick to converting roof spaces into rooms ...you know it makes sense.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Im sure I’ve read it somewhere that the designs mean capacity isn’t reduced by that much.

Capacity reduction whilst building is happening is a massive issue,

We have over 20K season ticket holders and I believe must give away fans tickets too.
Imagine if home fans could only have 18K tickets.
Does the club turn away some proper fans (season tickets holders) for a full PL season?
Also no new/ casual (potential future supporters) fans could attend any matches for a full season.

Don’t think there would be such a reduction in capacity building the South stand extension as there would be with the Kop. With it being a separate entity at the back, 90% of the stand could be build whilst the current SS is in use. Similar to the Liverpool model.

 

[BLADEOR]

We could play at hillsborough while we build the extensions and no blades would miss out! They get 2 million at home every game so they’ll be loads of room to fit our pub team crowds in.

UTB!

 

[Tommoblade66]

Not so much the ground, it's the area around it that needs developing. You know, space to expand into, better transport links etc