Design it Yourself Kop ..... a compromise solution?

[vorpal blade]

Good morning after the night before all.

Last night, I sat high in the BLUT - the best seats in the house, I noticed a phenomenon opposite on the Kop. It allows me to illustrate my sketch idea for a modification of the design of any extension to the Kop that might satisfy both parties?

The problem is this .....

1. Kop sitters understand that the seats are uncomfortably close together and that the rake of the terraces is too shallow to afford a good view of the pitch.

2. The owners of SUFC don't want to demolish the existing hill but want to be able to increase it's seating capacity in the long term.

I took this photograph last night ....



if you can see, the spectators nearest to the back and the sides stood up all match so that they could see the action comfortably, the line of the standers formed a beautiful arc, which I trace out in this next image ....



this is why in stadium design you see the tops of the stands curved btw (Arsenal, Wembley etc.etc.)

In effect, then, the crowd yourselves made a stand that has a step about 1.7m high in an arc halfway up. So THAT is how you model the shape of an extension to it.

It ends up a bit like this sketch .....



I would tweak it a bit but basically the crowd itself has shown the architects and Kevin what shape the new extension should have. We leave the middle arched section of the Kop as it is .... the spectators show that they are 'happy' with it - we build the kop 1.5 to 2m higher around the curve but using cheap STRAIGHT terracing (kicked up at a slightly steeper pitch for a better view possibly) and extend at the back.

This is a compromise between 'our' desires for a more comfortable stand AND the scheme that has won planning approval .... it would be a minor amendment to that scheme and I believe might keep EVERYONE happy at a minor extra cost .... the walkways would remain the same with a staircase at the point of the step. It even echoes the old 'canyon' across the old standing kop, beloved of us old boys - because it gave us a better view ........

Ladies and Gentlemen, I move ...... I'll do a better sketch if anyone is interested?

 

[Shoes_On]

Or safe standing in the curve

 

[Ron_Justice]

Love it, crack on.

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

Good morning after the night before all.

Last night, I sat high in the BLUT - the best seats in the house, I noticed a phenomenon opposite on the Kop. It allows me to illustrate my sketch idea for a modification of the design of any extension to the Kop that might satisfy both parties?

The problem is this .....

1. Kop sitters understand that the seats are uncomfortably close together and that the rake of the terraces is too shallow to afford a good view of the pitch.

2. The owners of SUFC don't want to demolish the existing hill but want to be able to increase it's seating capacity in the long term.

I took this photograph last night ....

View attachment 35739

if you can see, the spectators nearest to the back and the sides stood up all match so that they could see the action comfortably, the line of the standers formed a beautiful arc, which I trace out in this next image ....

View attachment 35740

this is why in stadium design you see the tops of the stands curved btw (Arsenal, Wembley etc.etc.)

In effect, then, the crowd yourselves made a stand that has a step about 1.7m high in an arc halfway up. So THAT is how you model the shape of an extension to it.

It ends up a bit like this sketch .....

View attachment 35741

I would tweak it a bit but basically the crowd itself has shown the architects and Kevin what shape the new extension should have. We leave the middle arched section of the Kop as it is .... the spectators show that they are 'happy' with it - we build the kop 1.5 to 2m higher around the curve but using cheap STRAIGHT terracing (kicked up at a slightly steeper pitch for a better view possibly) and extend at the back.

This is a compromise between 'our' desires for a more comfortable stand AND the scheme that has won planning approval .... it would be a minor amendment to that scheme and I believe might keep EVERYONE happy at a minor extra cost .... the walkways would remain the same with a staircase at the point of the step. It even echoes the old 'canyon' across the old standing kop, beloved of us old boys - because it gave us a better view ........

Ladies and Gentlemen, I move ...... I'll do a better sketch if anyone is interested?

Great post. And yes I'd be interested to see your sketch.

 

[JohnStreet]

Don’t forgot to get rid of those horrible white posts.

I wonder what percentage of seats on the kop have their view restricted due to them.

 

[SwissBlade]

Good morning after the night before all.

Last night, I sat high in the BLUT - the best seats in the house, I noticed a phenomenon opposite on the Kop. It allows me to illustrate my sketch idea for a modification of the design of any extension to the Kop that might satisfy both parties?

The problem is this .....

1. Kop sitters understand that the seats are uncomfortably close together and that the rake of the terraces is too shallow to afford a good view of the pitch.

2. The owners of SUFC don't want to demolish the existing hill but want to be able to increase it's seating capacity in the long term.

I took this photograph last night ....

View attachment 35739

if you can see, the spectators nearest to the back and the sides stood up all match so that they could see the action comfortably, the line of the standers formed a beautiful arc, which I trace out in this next image ....

View attachment 35740

this is why in stadium design you see the tops of the stands curved btw (Arsenal, Wembley etc.etc.)

In effect, then, the crowd yourselves made a stand that has a step about 1.7m high in an arc halfway up. So THAT is how you model the shape of an extension to it.

It ends up a bit like this sketch .....

View attachment 35741

I would tweak it a bit but basically the crowd itself has shown the architects and Kevin what shape the new extension should have. We leave the middle arched section of the Kop as it is .... the spectators show that they are 'happy' with it - we build the kop 1.5 to 2m higher around the curve but using cheap STRAIGHT terracing (kicked up at a slightly steeper pitch for a better view possibly) and extend at the back.

This is a compromise between 'our' desires for a more comfortable stand AND the scheme that has won planning approval .... it would be a minor amendment to that scheme and I believe might keep EVERYONE happy at a minor extra cost .... the walkways would remain the same with a staircase at the point of the step. It even echoes the old 'canyon' across the old standing kop, beloved of us old boys - because it gave us a better view ........

Ladies and Gentlemen, I move ...... I'll do a better sketch if anyone is interested?

Brilliant! Love that

 

[GodricBlade]

Main point - that's a flaming brilliant view from up there. Watch us v Donny not long ago from the very edge of the Westfield Corner & thought the view was good but look me, you did indeed have the best seats on the house last night. Great photo's.
Great ideas too fella - go straight to the top of the class.

 

[georgebernardshaw]

Good stuff there, mate, excellent work

“Designed by the people, for the people “

 

[HighfieldBlade]

Great work VP. As mentioned above, what about those godawful columns? Could a cantilever be used so we can get rid of the columns or will that blow the budget?

 

[Fraggle Blade]

The "offcial" design for the KOP development has the columns removed.

 

[Fraggle Blade]

I expect more than a sketch......at least a full sketchup model if you can't get around to Reviting it ;-)

 

[The Fox]

Interesting but I think a 2 tier version with boxes across the middle and standing below and seating above would be a good idea.

 

[Harry's Game]

The currently planned KOP extension should feature railed seating which can be amended to safe standing if and when the legislation passes to allow it.

 

[PeakyBlader]

Very interest read, enjoyed it thoroughly.

Look forward to a sketch.

 

[PeakyBlader]

Question...

The Upper tier is undoubtedly one of the best views, if not the best view in the ground.

With this in mind, would anyone actually invite a two tiered stand with a stepping incline on a new upper tier of the kop? You would probably have to lose some rows off the kop to accommodate a new upper tier like....But yeah, think sort of Villa's Holte end, but with a steeper incline on the new second tier.

 

[Inter_blade83]

Main point - that's a flaming brilliant view from up there. Watch us v Donny not long ago from the very edge of the Westfield Corner & thought the view was good but look me, you did indeed have the best seats on the house last night. Great photo's.
Great ideas too fella - go straight to the top of the class.

Or straight to the kop of the class

 

[Booker4]

Good morning after the night before all.

Last night, I sat high in the BLUT - the best seats in the house, I noticed a phenomenon opposite on the Kop. It allows me to illustrate my sketch idea for a modification of the design of any extension to the Kop that might satisfy both parties?

The problem is this .....

1. Kop sitters understand that the seats are uncomfortably close together and that the rake of the terraces is too shallow to afford a good view of the pitch.

2. The owners of SUFC don't want to demolish the existing hill but want to be able to increase it's seating capacity in the long term.

I took this photograph last night ....

View attachment 35739

if you can see, the spectators nearest to the back and the sides stood up all match so that they could see the action comfortably, the line of the standers formed a beautiful arc, which I trace out in this next image ....

View attachment 35740

this is why in stadium design you see the tops of the stands curved btw (Arsenal, Wembley etc.etc.)

In effect, then, the crowd yourselves made a stand that has a step about 1.7m high in an arc halfway up. So THAT is how you model the shape of an extension to it.

It ends up a bit like this sketch .....

View attachment 35741

I would tweak it a bit but basically the crowd itself has shown the architects and Kevin what shape the new extension should have. We leave the middle arched section of the Kop as it is .... the spectators show that they are 'happy' with it - we build the kop 1.5 to 2m higher around the curve but using cheap STRAIGHT terracing (kicked up at a slightly steeper pitch for a better view possibly) and extend at the back.

This is a compromise between 'our' desires for a more comfortable stand AND the scheme that has won planning approval .... it would be a minor amendment to that scheme and I believe might keep EVERYONE happy at a minor extra cost .... the walkways would remain the same with a staircase at the point of the step. It even echoes the old 'canyon' across the old standing kop, beloved of us old boys - because it gave us a better view ........

Ladies and Gentlemen, I move ...... I'll do a better sketch if anyone is interested?

Great post mate and totally agree. I wouldn't want to end up with a larger version of Huddersfield Town's kop though - I know that's not what you're sugessting. Your idea seems brilliant to be fair. I can't see the extension design changing but you might want to send your thoughts into McCabe, I'm sure he'd read the letter to be fair.

 

[Ginger Gnome]

If people can already see by standing up then there's no reason to raise it and still stand up. If the plan was to raise it so some of the standers had a better view and could sit instead then that'd make more sense (although everyone at the back would still stand anyway).

Arsenal, Wembley etc are curved because they're soulless bowls that join together rather than a proper old fashioned football ground and have angled seats towards the corners. Straight rows on a stand which happens to be curved at the front wouldn't be the same.

If they ever did do a two tier Kop with standing, it'd almost certainly have standing at the front with a seated upper tier.

 

[Boxer Blade]

Was the game that boring vorpal, some people check their phone, go for a drink, go to the loo, you redesign a stand, looks ok though.

 

[vorpal blade]

oh yes, I forget, how many did we win by ?

 

[vorpal blade]

If people can already see by standing up then there's no reason to raise it and still stand up. If the plan was to raise it so some of the standers had a better view and could sit instead then that'd make more sense (although everyone at the back would still stand anyway).

Yes, I'm not sure that safe-standing could actually be installed on the Kop terracing even if it were to become legal .... I just don't know if the steps are wide or tall enough - if anyone could put me right on this .......?

If they ever did do a two tier Kop with standing, it'd almost certainly have standing at the front with a seated upper tier.

well, that would be to follow precedent in this country but the diagram tells us that the 'logical' arrangement would be to have the standing room at the back - as you point out, standers up make themselves higher just by not sitting down. So the way it was always done in Britain like in the John Street, with standing at the front and sitting at the back requires much more construction money spent raising the seated area higher - thinking about it, I suppose as so much here, its just the class-system in microcosm .... those who could afford a dearer ticket sat above the poorer men where they couldn't be shouted or spat at or have things chucked down on them ....... ?

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Get rid of that “pigs ear” of a corner stand while your at it.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

The kop was an antiquated design when it was developed 28 years ago. That’s why the decision to do the SS first is a good idea. Give us more time to rethink the kop design.

 

[Ricky]

Knock the fucking thing down and build it again! Properly this time. It could make our ground great. It's the only way to do that.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

would anyone actually invite a two tiered stand with a stepping incline on a new upper tier of the kop?

It would at that point lose one of its defining characteristics making it a kop. Single tier is a must in my view. While preparing it for a potential safe standing future would be nice, all I really want is a single-tier stand:
– without columns
– that’s easy to get in and out of
– where you can actually see what’s happening in the goalmouth nearest the stand

 

[Sheffsteel]

Everyone has ideas about ground improvements
Personally I’d like us to make the John Street stand bigger, build a second tier and bring it closer to the pitch.
Or another option is to do a Spurs, clear the site and build a totally new 2 tier 40K stadium on the same site.

But in the real world the 2 biggest factors are “cost” and “return on investment’.

The main issues on the Kop are removing the pillars (frees up restricted views) and improving the concourse areas.
Our toilets and refreshments areas are like being back in the 80’s.
There’s also a bit of spare land to build on the back of the Kop, so may as well put in some extra seats.
However I think the Kop should remain the cheapest place in the stadium and have more basic facilities.

The main issues of the South stand are more of a vanity project, updating the corporate and visitors facilities and directors box etc.
Although to be fair impressing VIP’s and visitors from the media etc does add value to our reputation.
Also corporate boxes, banqueting, conference facilities can be used 365 days out of the year and bring in a decent revenue.
There’s enough land at the back of the South stand, so in order to add the extra facilities it’s logical to add more seats (upper tier).

I think the current Kop plans increase capacity by 3.5K to just over 36K
Where as the South stand plans provide an extra 5.5K seats which would increase the current capacity to over 38k.
Do both projects and you’re taking a 43K stadium.

If the club could only do 1 expansion it’s difficult to decide which would be best. The Kop is the most urgent but the South stand could be the most important adding more value to our image.

I believe the beauty with the current designs ensure that most of the seats in both stands are still usuable even whilst building is being done. This is a hugely important factor.

There’s no value in totally clearing a site to reduce capacity down to 20K ish because it means we would be losing millions before the new stand had even opened. Also what happens to the season ticket holders that can’t get a ticket as every match is instantly sold out.
Those season tickets holders that can no longer attend matches might lose the habit and not come back. We also couldn’t attract any new fans as there would be no tickets available for any matches.

 

[diode_blade]

More importantly from the OP's photo why the cwap have we not scored in those 3 photo's.......it took him 10 minutes to change the flash powder between each shot in his camera....

Seriously some very good points raised in this thread about the kop, I like the OP's idea..

 

[Bladezz]

Can anyone point me to the direction of the plans for the new stand? And when work will begin.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Can anyone point me to the direction of the plans for the new stand? And when work will begin.

Read somewhere that the plan is

We have to get promoted to the PL and also stay up 1 season

Then work immediately starts on BOTH stands to be expanded at the same time.

There’s a fans meeting with McCabe soon, maybe someone could ask him about the stadium plans/ intentions.

 

[Bladezz]

Read somewhere that the plan is

We have to get promoted to the PL and also stay up 1 season

Then work immediately starts on BOTH stands to be expanded at the same time.

There’s a fans meeting with McCabe soon, maybe someone could ask him about the stadium plans/ intentions.

I found it on google. It’s the south stand drawings hopefully get planning permission in Spring this year. Not sure when it would start.