Would you swap with SWFC?

[Revolution]

But you wouldn't be supporting United, you'd be supporting a totally different club. You might as well support Man U if you want Europeon football so badly that you'd be willing to see United shut down.
And the assumption that all the combined support of the two clubs would be channelled into a merged club is wrong.
It wouldn't, I wouldn't go and many more wouldn't either. Not because I "won't sit next to a Wednesday fan" but because I'd have no interest in supporting a different club to United.

A merged club would be smaller than both the Sheffield clubs are currently.

Agreed, and there would be an additional mess - someone would create FC United of Sheffield (and someone else its Wednesday equivalent) and you'd have 3 clubs competing instead of 2.

I'm trying to think of an example of a modern merger that's worked: I suppose the one in Inverness has, and in Germany Greuther Furth is the product of a merger 20 years ago, but that's about it, and they were much more small time in terms of support and league status that the Sheffield teams.

There was also Dagenham and Redbridge (which is the product of 2 or 3 mergers) and Rushden and Diamonds (RIP). Smaller scale again. Clubs don't work in England when you "put" them somewhere.

 

[Batemoorblade]

Whoever voted yes should be tarred and feathered.

 

[Woodwardfan]

All fair comments and I respect your opinions.

 

[TonyAgana]

There are clearly different types of football fans, all with merited opinions.

My Great-Grandad was born in 1889 and supported them pretty much from the beginning - I can't even begin to imagine the difference in supporting a club with 5 years history compared with 125 but I'd have thought if the suggestion of merging came up back then, it would have more support and in all honesty it's probably a missed opportunity in financial / business terms but in my mind, fuck that. Rivalry makes up at least 25% of my enjoyment of being a Blade. I can confidently say that beating Wednesday in '91 was a better feeling than winning at least a League Cup, if not an FA Cup, would be.

 

[TonyAgana]

Well batted.

Flat track bully

I'd have preferred a lower turnout with more balanced opinion, if I'm honest. This offers little to my debate with Darren

(although I appreciate everybody's input!)

 

[Darren]

I'd have preferred a lower turnout with more balanced opinion, if I'm honest. This offers little to my debate with Darren

(although I appreciate everybody's input!)

As I say, if he did the same poll on a SWFC site, you would get 99% saying they would not swap places with United.

Which I could have told you was bleedin' obvious before you started

 

[TonyAgana]

As I say, if he did the same poll on a SWFC site, you would get 99% saying they would not swap places with United.

Which I could have told you was bleedin' obvious before you started

Haha! I guess I had more faith than you!

Still, you're the only one to state that you would indeed swap everything that we have for everything that they have, am I right?

 

[Darren]

Haha! I guess I had more faith than you!

Still, you're the only one to state that you would indeed swap everything that we have for everything that they have, am I right?

Define what "everything" is

If you are talking about the general financial/football state of the club, yes, I would take their higher league position and everything that goes with it. I think people who think we are some fantsically well run club in comparism to Wednesday are somewhat biased (as I think your poll shows!)

 

[TonyAgana]

Define what "everything" is

If you are talking about the general financial/football state of the club, yes, I would take their higher league position and everything that goes with it. I think people who think we are some fantsically well run club in comparism to Wednesday are somewhat biased (as I think your poll shows!)

I think that about covers it, yes. We referred to it the other day as "the foundations" but fleshing that out a bit I hope we're in agreement that it covers ALL investment in the club (including all assets - ground, academy, facilities, staff, etc.).

 

[metalblade]

If you think I'm a "lesser Blade" I can live with that, but not agree with it of course. My realisation came many years ago as football became more a business with "big being beautiful". Nothing I had ever seen at either club helped me believe either would be successful in the new scenario and nothing I have seen since has helped me change my mind. If as you say the new ownership leads us to bigger things then that will be one hell of a bonus at my stage of life.

Supporting United in a split city has always meant stuttering up into the top division on occasions but always with an inadequate squad and insufficient cash to give it a good go, though Bassett worked wonders on peanuts for a while. I've lost count how many really big games I've been to in cups and play-offs knowing full well our team needed a miracle, which never materialised of course. After one semi-final at Old Trafford a TV reporter thrust a microphone in front of me and asked for my reaction to another defeat - I said " if we always sell our best players this is what happens in big games".

If the city was a one club city all the support from the area could be channelled into one big effort and investors with twice the audience could put in cash with more confidence. I know, you and others would never stand shoulder to shoulder with Wendy fans but enough would and over time it would grow and grow.

At present we are two nobody clubs who don't threaten the big boys. Between us we have one secondary cup between us in donkeys years.

Personally I love to watch gifted players and I hate getting stuffed by the big clubs who then patronise our brave efforts. I'd love to watch us in the Champions League and challenge for domestic honours. Our "local" rivalry is exactly that, parochial and meaningless on the national scale.

In the meantime I know full well it will never happen and I support my club for what it is and for what I was born into. The new owners? The first potential "real deal" I have ever known. That's why over the months I despaired at how so many you "greater blades" than me did nothing but knock them until last month in fact. Are they the "real deal" I desperately hope so and I hope that lot at Hillsborough are charlottans, of course I do.

What an utter load of bollocks, take Newcastle United in a one club city who can get 50,000 every game yet they still can't challenge the top six. Gate receipts nowadays are a drop in the ocean to Premiership teams. The fact is without huge backing like Man C or Chelsea have you will struggle to compete in today's game. The reason neither Sheffield team hasn't done much for years is because mega rich people in this area willing to back the local teams are few and far between

 

[HillmortonBlade]

What an utter load of bollocks, take Newcastle United in a one club city who can get 50,000 every game yet they still can't challenge the top six. gate receipts nowadays are a drop in the ocean to Premiership teams. The fact is without huge backing like Man C or Chelsea have you will struggle to compete in today's game. The reason neither Sheffield team hasn't done much for years is because mega rich people in this area willing to back the local teams are few and far between

Have to agree MB. Leeds, Newcastle, etc, one team cities who have what to show for it? (Although there is Manchester FC, London FC, Glasgow FC, Madrid FC, Milan FC) who have done ok). If football solely a "business" and a club a "brand" then the logic says merge. In fact, let's just have a dozen teams or so, then we have a much better chance at winning the Champions League. I don't think there is a bigger game than when we play the LadyPigs, at whatever level. And the most important thing for ME, is MY Club that I have grown up loving. Not the players, not the end of season stats, not even the trophy cabinet(?!).

 

[Woodwardfan]

What an utter load of bollocks, take Newcastle United in a one club city who can get 50,000 every game yet they still can't challenge the top six. Gate receipts nowadays are a drop in the ocean to Premiership teams. The fact is without huge backing like Man C or Chelsea have you will struggle to compete in today's game. The reason neither Sheffield team hasn't done much for years is because mega rich people in this area willing to back the local teams are few and far between

I have a Toon pal who bemoans their owner and the club's lack of success. In truth they spend the vast majority of their time in the Premier League and get to Wembley now and again. No they haven't won anything but the relative success between them and us is rather one-sided. My Toon pal says it's all relative and the disappointment is about "realistic expectations" which are so far higher than ours. And I think that's true, not happy about it, but believe it's true. I go to games a lot with him and must say their fans are worse than ours in turning on their team, it's those "unrealsitic expectations" actually. Ashley has been a disaster for them; they are losing long standing fans in hordes.

BTW. Gate receipts are not a "drop in the ocean". Look at clubs expanding their grounds to accommodate a further 20k or so. Look at the Mancs gate receipts getting 78000 compared with their close rivals. Do the maths. £1200 plus a season ticket, £100 plus for a match plus hospitality suites. Old players are lined up every home game to host guests. One I know gets £550 for the day and there are quite a few there every game.

 

[RedandWhite]

So is that a Yes or No? The proposal is "all or nothing".

No

 

[HillmortonBlade]

If the city was a one club city all the support from the area could be channelled into one big effort and investors with twice the audience could put in cash with more confidence. I know, you and others would never stand shoulder to shoulder with Wendy fans but enough would and over time it would grow and grow.

We could take the new "franchise" and take it to Milton Keynes in a state of the art stadium, next to a KFC, and although some fans may drift off, the new ones will be delighted... It makes good business sense.

Perhaps I am old fashioned, but I am appalled at football clubs losing identity. What price success without a soul?

 

[Revolution]

I have a Toon pal who bemoans their owner and the club's lack of success. In truth they spend the vast majority of their time in the Premier League and get to Wembley now and again. No they haven't won anything but the relative success between them and us is rather one-sided. My Toon pal says it's all relative and the disappointment is about "realistic expectations" which are so far higher than ours. And I think that's true, not happy about it, but believe it's true. I go to games a lot with him and must say their fans are worse than ours in turning on their team, it's those "unrealsitic expectations" actually. Ashley has been a disaster for them; they are losing long standing fans in hordes.

BTW. Gate receipts are not a "drop in the ocean". Look at clubs expanding their grounds to accommodate a further 20k or so. Look at the Mancs gate receipts getting 78000 compared with their close rivals. Do the maths. £1200 plus a season ticket, £100 plus for a match plus hospitality suites. Old players are lined up every home game to host guests. One I know gets £550 for the day and there are quite a few there every game.

Newcastle is quite interesting because Ashley is running the club for profit above all else. This is rare.

His methods have been the subject of some decent journalism recently.

I am glad he is not our owner.

 

[TonyAgana]

BTW. Gate receipts are not a "drop in the ocean". Look at clubs expanding their grounds to accommodate a further 20k or so. Look at the Mancs gate receipts getting 78000 compared with their close rivals. Do the maths. £1200 plus a season ticket, £100 plus for a match plus hospitality suites. Old players are lined up every home game to host guests. One I know gets £550 for the day and there are quite a few there every game.

Taking Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool out of the equation, the average matchday income last year was £14m. The new TV deal alone (from my rudimentary maths) will net clubs an average of £86m per year.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

Taking Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool out of the equation, the average matchday income last year was £14m. The new TV deal alone (from my rudimentary maths) will net clubs an average of £86m per year.

Incredible to think that Bournemouth and their 10,000 gates could be collecting that next season

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Which cunt voted Yes?

I wanted to be the only one.

 

[South London Blade]

Which cunt voted Yes?

I wanted to be the only one.

The man from del monte

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

The man from del monte

Who was basically just a quality controller for a tinned food conglomerate.

 

[raul]

Which cunt voted Yes?

I wanted to be the only one.

Once upon a time maybe Petey, but there's loads of em on here now....

 

[2ndtenorblade]

Which cunt voted Yes?

I wanted to be the only one.

I abstained

 

[Silent Blade]

Yes, yes. Got mi year wrong. All I remember is that Villa were celebrating something and it was the last game of the season.

April 1975. Villa won 4-0 and got promoted with Man U and Norwich

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Taking Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool out of the equation, the average matchday income last year was £14m. The new TV deal alone (from my rudimentary maths) will net clubs an average of £86m per year.

The 86M will all go to agents via their players.

Anyone who thinks differently is a fool.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Sorry I've not had the time to read this thread.

Simple answer: Would you swap?: No. Would you merge?: YES. I've been of that opinion ever since I learned business and brands.

And certainly since the anathema called the Premier League was formed.

Does that make me a lesser Blade?: NO.

Forever also-rans: SUFC and SWFC.

Woody , i thought this merging business had died a death . 25 years ago , there actually was a meeting at board level to discuss ground sharing , and the feasibility of one football club . I was against it then , and even more so now.

It would rip the heart out of both clubs , and we would be worst that MK Dons , as a franchise . Next thing we would be playing in Leeds. The only thing i do hope that happens , is that both clubs are battling it out in the premiership one day.

I would rather support a also ran ( your quote ) , than a merger of both Sheffield clubs.

UTB

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

The 86M will all go to agents via their players.

Anyone who thinks differently is a fool.

Agents and footballers become richer . The game of football doesn't.

UTB

 

[Cyprus Blade]

On the merger thing ( I thought it had been kicked into the long grass yonks ago too) - its always wise to be careful what you wish for I would suggest.

In terms of finance, brand etc there may be some "potential" advantages,but there would be a minefield of issues to sort out ( together with how do you compensate for what you would lose - history, support, respect, integrity,tradition etc) such as "minor" things like kit and colours - you might start out wanting to be like Barcelona ( combining the red and blue stripes) but end up as Leeds (combining the white stripes) - something which would be likely to be replicated in other areas of club management, status and market potential. For example Leeds average 25,000 at the gate - in all probability a unified Sheffield team would get less as there is no tradition or history of supporting it.

Like many things on paper the reality often disappoints and fails to live up to expectations - I for one wouldn't support the team but would support the inevitable United of Sheffield that would arise. Sorry WWF - a bad idea dreamt up by accountants and marketers which would turn into a nightmare.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

On the merger thing ( I thought it had been kicked into the long grass yonks ago too) - its always wise to be careful what you wish for I would suggest.

In terms of finance, brand etc there may be some "potential" advantages,but there would be a minefield of issues to sort out ( together with how do you compensate for what you would lose - history, support, respect, integrity,tradition etc) such as "minor" things like kit and colours - you might start out wanting to be like Barcelona ( combining the red and blue stripes) but end up as Leeds (combining the white stripes) - something which would be likely to be replicated in other areas of club management, status and market potential. For example Leeds average 25,000 at the gate - in all probability a unified Sheffield team would get less as there is no tradition or history of supporting it.

Like many things on paper the reality often disappoints and fails to live up to expectations - I for one wouldn't support the team but would support the inevitable United of Sheffield that would arise. Sorry WWF - a bad idea dreamt up by accountants and marketers which would turn into a nightmare.

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Totally agree with you Cyprus . If there was a merger ( dreamt up by money men and no thought process ) , i would also support United of Sheffield FC , who would start in the same bottom tier league as a Wednesday of Sheffield FC . The rivalry would start again and live on.

UTB

 

[Erad]

Totally agree with you Cyprus . If there was a merger ( dreamt up by money men and no thought process ) , i would also support United of Sheffield FC , who would start in the same bottom tier league as a Wednesday of Sheffield FC . The rivalry would start again and live on.

UTB

That sounds like good fun actually, maybe we should start new clubs anyway

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Totally agree with you Cyprus . If there was a merger ( dreamt up by money men and no thought process ) , i would also support United of Sheffield FC , who would start in the same bottom tier league as a Wednesday of Sheffield FC . The rivalry would start again and live on.

UTB

But the new merged club could have ex HSBC management and ex Tesco accountants, couldn't fail.