Ways to make the play offs fairer?

[Blade for Sale]

Was chatting to an Italian about this not long back. Apparently over there, if there is a gap of a certain number of points (not sure how many) between any of the 4 playoff positions, then the team(s) below that get cut adrift and the play offs are then between the teams remaining. So, if we assume the gap is 6 points, if the team finishing 3rd is 6 or more points ahead of 4th, then there are no play offs and 3rd goes up automatically.

If said gap is between 5-6th, then the 6th team gets cut adrift, and 4th and 5th play each other for the right to contest 3rd in the final.

This seems very fair, but realistically would never be implemented here as it would reduce somebody’s gate receipts.

However it does seem right that things should be made gradually more difficult as you go down from 3rd to 6th (the only ‘advantage’ at the moment is allowing 3rd and 4th to play 2nd legs at home, which seems scant).

Any ideas?

- Could it be like Rugby League whereby the highest team gets to pick their opponents?
- 3rd and 4th can win on away goals but 5th and 6th can’t?
- 3rd and 4th get to kick off the 1st leg of the semis with a penalty?
- 5th and 6th have to play a percentage of the tie with 10 men?

Or is the system fine as it is?

 

[Revolution]

I have said this before, but I think we can learn from Aussie Rules/Rugby and do this:

3rd vs 4th, 1 game - winner to final
5th vs 6th, 1 game - winner plays loser of 3rd/4th game for place in final.

This makes each place worth more than the one below (in terms of 2nd chance and/or home advantage).

I don't like the playoffs personally (I don't think any Blades fan does) but I can see that they bring value to the game and keep seasons interesting for more teams than a simple 3 up system does.

 

[JohnDenver]

Fundamentally it's not about fairness but making a better product.

I'm happy with how it is, even if we're always on the wrong end of things.

 

[mattbianco1]

Was chatting to an Italian about this not long back. Apparently over there, if there is a gap of a certain number of points (not sure how many) between any of the 4 playoff positions, then the team(s) below that get cut adrift and the play offs are then between the teams remaining. So, if we assume the gap is 6 points, if the team finishing 3rd is 6 or more points ahead of 4th, then there are no play offs and 3rd goes up automatically.

With that logic, our season would be over.

I've thought for years that it should be 3rd bottom of league above vs. 3rd top of league below straight shootout match at Wembley. That's much fairer.

If they wanted to make more money could do

17th in Prem vs. 4th in Championship
18th in Prem vs. 3rd in Championship

That way the teams like Hull and Leicester would have a chance to redeem themselves.

 

[jt64]

Think either the rugby system or the German system as detailed above would be better. Or even have the team 1 below automatic nominate their opponent if you keep things the same as a format

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Surely the only fair way, after our years of suffering, is to have a rule where by should Sheffield United qualify for the play-offs they are automatically promoted.

 

[Rusty view]

....or to save the misery if we qualify we pick another team to take our place and don't bother with the heart ache / expesnse

 

[Esablade]

It's all about making more money.
Forget fairness.

I mean why stop at sixth? Why not 8th or 10th?
Why not have play-off's for relegation?

IMO the team finishing 3rd should go up if three teams are promoted.
The play-off's make a mockery of the league structure.

 

[SK10Blade]

It's all about making more money.
Forget fairness.

I mean why stop at sixth? Why not 8th or 10th?
Why not have play-off's for relegation?

IMO the team finishing 3rd should go up if three teams are promoted.
The play-off's make a mockery of the league structure.

Couldn't agree more, money, money, money. It's a league competition so the top three should go up.

 

[Silent Blade]

With that logic, our season would be over.

I've thought for years that it should be 3rd bottom of league above vs. 3rd top of league below straight shootout match at Wembley. That's much fairer.

If they wanted to make more money could do

17th in Prem vs. 4th in Championship
18th in Prem vs. 3rd in Championship

That way the teams like Hull and Leicester would have a chance to redeem themselves.

Agree with this

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

I always thought that if they are going to have play offs then the team that comes 3rd goes automatically into the final. 6th plays 5th in a one off game with 5th at home. The winner then plays 4th over 2 legs. The winner of this plays 3rd in the final at Wembley.

 

[YES Blade]

Couldn't agree more, money, money, money. It's a league competition so the top three should go up.

It's not just about the TV money and the money made from the matches for the football league, what would the attendances be like for clubs like us who had little chance of finishing 3rd by end of Feb/early March?

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Too convoluted, it's perfect the way it is.

 

[Linz]

I must admit I thought the gist of this thread would be "let us win".

Don't agree with the play-offs - top three should go up.

 

[gavtheblade]

Do away with it.
They're bobar.

 

[mattbianco1]

Do away with it.
They're bobar.

Wednesday fans love them.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I have said this before, but I think we can learn from Aussie Rules/Rugby and do this:

3rd vs 4th, 1 game - winner to final
5th vs 6th, 1 game - winner plays loser of 3rd/4th game for place in final.

This makes each place worth more than the one below (in terms of 2nd chance and/or home advantage).

I don't like the playoffs personally (I don't think any Blades fan does) but I can see that they bring value to the game and keep seasons interesting for more teams than a simple 3 up system does.

5 up, 5 down would serve the same purpose and would at least ensure the most deserving teams go up after 46 matches.
Would make sure that the wealth gets more evenly distributed too.

N.B. Not just saying this because we're 5th, been saying it for years.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Fundamentally it's not about fairness but making a better product.

I'm happy with how it is, even if we're always on the wrong end of things.

Yes. If you're looking for fairness then the top 3 go up.

Play-Offs are about marketing, and tbf they do sustain interest.

I'd rather have the purists 3 up approach which is the sport side of things, the Play-Offs are about the entertainment side of things and they're the price you pay for bigger crowds and wider interest.

 

[UpTheClough]

It could happen this season that Chesterfield get promoted having got 23 points less than MK Dons which is a ridiculous gap. Does anyone know what the largest gap between 3rd and 6th has been?

 

[raul]

How its done North of the Border.

Bottom of SPL replaced by Top of Championship.

3rd plays 4th in Championship play off for the right to repeat against 2nd, winner of that tie subsequently plays 2nd bottom SPL side to decide who plays where next season.

Theoretically, part-time Queen of the South will have to play six games in three weeks, the final two against a full time SPL side who've had the same period off. Unless the manager of said full time side is Terry Fucking Butcher, the dice are far too loaded against the minnows . I'd just do it 2nd bottom SPL v 4th SFL plays winner of 2nd v 3rd SFL, but I do prefer the two-legged final.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

It could happen this season that Chesterfield get promoted having got 23 points less than MK Dons which is a ridiculous gap. Does anyone know what the largest gap between 3rd and 6th has been?

I think we finished 17 points ahead of Stevenage in 2012 from memory.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

It could happen this season that Chesterfield get promoted having got 23 points less than MK Dons which is a ridiculous gap. Does anyone know what the largest gap between 3rd and 6th has been?

This was posted a while ago:-

Copied from otib.co.uk

103 - Title winners 2012, 2014
102 -
101 -
100 -
99 -
98 -
97 -
96 - Title winners 2009 *average amount required for title win*
95 - Title winners 2011, 2010
94 - 2nd place 2014
93 - 2nd place 2012
92 - 2nd place 2011
91 -
90 - 3rd Place 2012 *average amount required for promotion*
89 - 2nd place 2009
88 -
87 - 3rd Place 2011, 2009
86 - 2nd place 2010, 3rd Place 2014
85 - 3rd Place 2010
84 - Title winners 2013
83 - 2nd place 2013
82 -
81 -
80 - 6th place 2010
79 - 3rd Place 2013
78 -
77 -
76 - 6th place 2009
75 - * average required for play offs*
74 - 6th place 2013, 2014
73 - 6th place 2012
72 -
71 - 6th place 2011
70 -
69 -
68 -
67 -
66 -
65 -
64 - Bristol City (30)
63 -
62 -
61 -
60 -
59 - MK Dons (31)
58 -
57 - Swindon (30)
56 -
55 -
54 -
53 - Preston (29)
52 -
51 -
50 - Safety 2012, Safety 2010, Safety 2009, Safety 2008 *average required for safety*
49 - Safety 2013
48 - Safety 2011, 2014 Sheffield United (29)
47 -
46 -
45 - Doncaster (30)
44 -
43 - Oldham (30)
42 - Chesterfield (31)
41 - Gillingham (31), Fleetwood (31), Peterborough (31), Bradford (29)
40 - Scunthorpe (29), Walsall (30)
39 - Port Vale (31)

38- Crewe (31), Notts County (30), Rochdale (28),

37-

36-

35 - Barnsley (30)

34-

33-

32- Coventry (30)

31- Colchester (31)

30- Crawley (30)

29- Leyton Orient (29)

28- Yeovil (31)#32
Glos Red,Feb 18, 2015


So, the average points achieved by the 6th team is usually about 75 points and about 90 points by the 2nd team. A 15 point gap.
Also, 50 points may not be enough for safety this season for the first time in years.

 

[Kenilworth]

Use bleach

 

[Sheff de party]

I think without playoffs, most team's seasons are over either before they begin or certainly very soon after that. Aiming for 6th is a great way to keep a season alive for a weaker team.

If teams can't qualify in the top 2 over a 46 game season, they don't deserve anything more than a lottery system to go up.

Similarly, I disagree with relegation playoffs. If over 46 games (or 38 in the PL) you're in the relegation zone, tough luck.

 

[Kenilworth]

It could happen this season that Chesterfield get promoted having got 23 points less than MK Dons which is a ridiculous gap. Does anyone know what the largest gap between 3rd and 6th has been?

Article raul shared on shout box yesterday

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/29/does-league-form-matter-in-play-offs

Goes on to say that the largest gap in points total between the team that finished third and the eventual winners was 12.
Now, look at the current table and you will see that we are currently standing 18 points behind third placed MKD - a position that could stretch to 21 by Sunday afternoon

 

[pommpey]

Crib board. Semi and full on. Aggregate peg holes top three.

pommpey

 

[Davie Blade]

It could happen this season that Chesterfield get promoted having got 23 points less than MK Dons which is a ridiculous gap. Does anyone know what the largest gap between 3rd and 6th has been?

Almost certainly this season is a record breaker,plus the reasons why.

http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/progress.39505/page-4#post-750344

 

[DanOundogg]

I always thought that if they are going to have play offs then the team that comes 3rd goes automatically into the final. 6th plays 5th in a one off game with 5th at home. The winner then plays 4th over 2 legs. The winner of this plays 3rd in the final at Wembley.

I agree with this one if any

 

[davidpinder]

Leave them as they are as teams will lose interest sooner if the top 4 cut adrift of the rest.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Cyprus has a totally different structure to any other league I have seen. The League has 12 teams in it. (not recommending this by the way).

Round One - Each club plays the others twice, home and away - 22 games for each club.

Round Two - The 12 teams are then separated into two groups of six teams according to their position at the end of the first round. 1- 6 Championship group, 7-12 relegation group. Points from round one are carried forward to the second round. Teams then play each team in their group twice, home and away (10 more matches). At the end of the second round, the bottom team of the relegation group is relegated to the second division.The winner of the Championship group are champions and get into the Champions League. 2nd and 3rd go into UEFA Europa League.