Villa. Dead Jammy or What?

[CentralQuay]

Mings if fucking shite...……….absolute shite! He's like a younger version of David Luiz or what ever the cunts name is!

Multiple PL and European cup winner.....Pretty sure he has some international honours too.

He's no JOC/Egan/Basham mind.

 

[VictoryBlade]

He just seems to one of those players that does very little except point, and we've had a few! UTB Sir!

 

[Champagneblade]

I'm basing it off of the last 'x' seasons, not just last season.
You're claiming this squad is very capable of playing at this level based off of just 1 season, i'm claiming they're not, based off of the past 5/6/7/8 seasons.

If Fleck/Norwood/Egan/Basham/Mcgoldrick/Sharp etc were capable of playing at this level, why have they spent their whole careers, as decent lower league players?

How someone can seriously argue this side is bottom with 2 points because of a game against Aston Villa last season is beyond me.

You are basing it on previous seasons which are less relevant as time goes on. Look at Jamie Vardy. He spent many seasons outside of the PL until his late 20s. Surely the most recent completed season is the most relevant?

These players have become better players over time. Otherwise they would not have managed to get to the Premiership and finish 9th. Whether Fleck was a PL player at 25 is largely irrelevant.

My initial point was that the scenario of Villa staying up had additional effects. Namely players they took over us, would not have chosen to play in the Championship with Villa over the PL with Sheffield United.

Our plight this year, which I am not contesting has been poor is down to:
Disproportionately severe injuries to almost unilaterally the better first picks.
Poor decisions.
All that follows from then being bottom and relying on the alternative players.

The squad would have been stronger if the manager had secured his first picks. Otherwise they wouldn't have been top of his list. Working on the basis the manager has a list of players for each desired position for which he needs to fill and he'd rather fill it from the top of the list than the bottom as he sees these as more capable.

He wanted Cash. Whilst I see Baldock as a better defender, given the role of Wing Back, I see Cash more likely displacing him, because Cash is better offensively and will therefore contribute to more chances being created and more goals being scored. With exceptions, I don't see Bogle doing that yet.

He wanted Watkins who is more developed than Brewster and would have made more of an impact. His most recent sample of 26 goals in a season vs 11 in half a season is a much more reliable sample plus his degree of maturity.

Your argument is also hard to follow.

I'm saying the team would have been more effective if we had signed better players. Those players went to Villa because they were a PL team not a Championship one as could have been the case. You seem to be saying that would have made no difference. Unless you just don't rate Cash and Watkins and see them as no different to Bogle and Brewster.

If you sign better players, all other things being equal you will have a better team. Surely we can agree on this point?

 

[ATL Recs]

You are basing it on previous seasons which are less relevant as time goes on. Look at Jamie Vardy. He spent many seasons outside of the PL until his late 20s. Surely the most recent completed season is the most relevant?

These players have become better players over time. Otherwise they would not have managed to get to the Premiership and finish 9th. Whether Fleck was a PL player at 25 is largely irrelevant.

My initial point was that the scenario of Villa staying up had additional effects. Namely players they took over us, would not have chosen to play in the Championship with Villa over the PL with Sheffield United.

Our plight this year, which I am not contesting has been poor is down to:
Disproportionately severe injuries to almost unilaterally the better first picks.
Poor decisions.
All that follows from then being bottom and relying on the alternative players.

The squad would have been stronger if the manager had secured his first picks. Otherwise they wouldn't have been top of his list. Working on the basis the manager has a list of players for each desired position for which he needs to fill and he'd rather fill it from the top of the list than the bottom as he sees these as more capable.

He wanted Cash. Whilst I see Baldock as a better defender, given the role of Wing Back, I see Cash more likely displacing him, because Cash is better offensively and will therefore contribute to more chances being created and more goals being scored. With exceptions, I don't see Bogle doing that yet.

He wanted Watkins who is more developed than Brewster and would have made more of an impact. His most recent sample of 26 goals in a season vs 11 in half a season is a much more reliable sample plus his degree of maturity.

Your argument is also hard to follow.

I'm saying the team would have been more effective if we had signed better players. Those players went to Villa because they were a PL team not a Championship one as could have been the case. You seem to be saying that would have made no difference. Unless you just don't rate Cash and Watkins and see them as no different to Bogle and Brewster.

If you sign better players, all other things being equal you will have a better team. Surely we can agree on this point?

They’d have gone somewhere else in the premier league don’t kid yourself wasn’t only Villa n us interested

We over achieved you could see from February March we needed premiership quality adding to our squad to kick on and other than a fluke win oved Wolves and comfortable wins over a Spurs n Chelsea both in transition we looked very very average and poor after the lockdown

 

[CentralQuay]

You are basing it on previous seasons which are less relevant as time goes on. Look at Jamie Vardy. He spent many seasons outside of the PL until his late 20s. Surely the most recent completed season is the most relevant?

These players have become better players over time. Otherwise they would not have managed to get to the Premiership and finish 9th. Whether Fleck was a PL player at 25 is largely irrelevant.

My initial point was that the scenario of Villa staying up had additional effects. Namely players they took over us, would not have chosen to play in the Championship with Villa over the PL with Sheffield United.

Our plight this year, which I am not contesting has been poor is down to:
Disproportionately severe injuries to almost unilaterally the better first picks.
Poor decisions.
All that follows from then being bottom and relying on the alternative players.

The squad would have been stronger if the manager had secured his first picks. Otherwise they wouldn't have been top of his list. Working on the basis the manager has a list of players for each desired position for which he needs to fill and he'd rather fill it from the top of the list than the bottom as he sees these as more capable.

He wanted Cash. Whilst I see Baldock as a better defender, given the role of Wing Back, I see Cash more likely displacing him, because Cash is better offensively and will therefore contribute to more chances being created and more goals being scored. With exceptions, I don't see Bogle doing that yet.

He wanted Watkins who is more developed than Brewster and would have made more of an impact. His most recent sample of 26 goals in a season vs 11 in half a season is a much more reliable sample plus his degree of maturity.

Your argument is also hard to follow.

I'm saying the team would have been more effective if we had signed better players. Those players went to Villa because they were a PL team not a Championship one as could have been the case. You seem to be saying that would have made no difference. Unless you just don't rate Cash and Watkins and see them as no different to Bogle and Brewster.

If you sign better players, all other things being equal you will have a better team. Surely we can agree on this point?

There's absolutely loads there I could dissect, and I would end up writing hundreds of words which I don't think anyone on here would appreciate, so I will just make 1 simple point.

"If you sign better players, all other things being equal you will have a better team. Surely we can agree on this point?"

It's not quite this simple.....As you're assuming that Watkins/Cash are better players based on a dozen games, that's an extremely small sample size.
Plus, you're ignoring my previous points about Villa having better players, to make Watkins appear to be a better player.
For one, Sheffield United, both over the whole of last season, and the beginning of this season, have had the least shots in the entire league, whereas last season, Grealish alone created the 2nd most chances in the league.
Therefore it is easier for Watkins at Villa, because he is surrounded by 'better players' than he would be at SUFC. Brewster would look more of a threat with some creativity behind him.

The largest difference between this season and last to explain the difference in points is simple, the defensive record has been far far worse.
But why?
JOC is being given as an excuse by many. When you analyse that, compared to Liverpool/Leicester who have had both better and more defenders out, it is far too simple of an excuse.
You throw in a lack attacking threat, even less than last season, and sides are willing to take more risks because they feel that you're not going to outscore them, again, a possible contributing factor.

Three major points:

1. There's a clear lack of quality. Which ironically, is even more highlighted when the 'JOC has been injured' excuse is constantly used. If just one player can make such an impact on the squad, it shows there's very little quality in the rest of it.

2. If you're suggesting that the club can't compete with another PL club, in Villa, who got promoted the same season, how are you expecting to compete with the rest of the league?

3. Comparing a World Class striker in Jamie Vardy, to any forward in this squad is one of the funniest things I have heard in my lifetime. He's already in the top 20 PL goalscorers of all time, and could get into the top 10 by the end of his career. He's got more PL goals than Didzy has total goals in his whole professional career.