Time for Wilder until the end of the season?

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Sheffsteel said:
Cheltenham Town are currently in league 1.
Imagine if I said they've going to appoint a new manager and end up challenging near the top of the Premier League, that would seem impossible
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If we use this Cheltenham Town analogy. Would they still want that manager back if he then spunked a load of money on dross, and failed at 2 Championship clubs. Someone might say it was due to momentum and circumstances!
Only telling half the story.
 

Wayne Rooney just resigned in the US. Has he had a phone call?
 
If I was a Chris Wilder fan I’d not want him to come back at this stage even if I wanted him to manage us again.

Jesus Christ wouldn’t be able to do anything with the current squad. It is just wishful thinking Chris Wilder might be able to play the same football as last time. We don’t have overlapping CBs, we don’t have the same steel in midfield or a quality GK in Hendo. So he’ll take us down.

With so many games to go it’s questionable whether he would even finish the season. If we do bring him back it would be much better to do it at championship level where he’d be given time to build something.
 
Wilder deserves the eternal respect and gratitude of our fanbase for what he achieved in his time at the club. I don’t think anyone is debating that.

But that success came out of a very specific time and set of circumstances. The situation the club is in now is completely different. Most of the players from Wilder’s time are now considerably older, and let’s be honest, on the decline. The rest have no connection to him or his style of play.

You’re never going to be able to recreate that momentum again or the chemistry that led to that team doing what it did.

You also have to consider more recent, less positive evidence. Wilder was in a far better position than Hecky currently is at the start of the season we went down. His recruitment was clearly not good and he showed no signs of being able to arrest the slide once it started. The position we’re in now is a lot more similar to that season than it is to when Wilder first came in.

Plus, take a look at what Watford or Boro fans have to say about him. His time with both clubs was underwhelming to say the least.

He was the right man at the right time, and for a while it was the best era in the club’s recent history. But then it stopped working. Nothing he’s done since suggests he’s going to be able to do it again.

For me, getting Wilder back isn’t a rational or forward thinking move for the club.
 
The 3 most numerous names i’ve seen mentioned by our fanbase:
  • Wilder
  • Warnock
  • Bruce
Jesus christ what an awful awful list. So unimaginative. No wonder we fail so bad when our expectations or football knowledge is so limited we can’t think beyond average northern managers. We are resigning ourself to championship mediocrity with those names.
 
crazyblade1889 said:
If we use this Cheltenham Town analogy. Would they still want that manager back if he then spunked a load of money on dross, and failed at 2 Championship clubs. Someone might say it was due to momentum and circumstances!
Only telling half the story.
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How any one can say Watford was a failure. He took over for 12 games and left. They are now doing a lot worse without him.

It’s just some people want to use anything to fit the narrative.
 
SUFCinks said:
Wilder would be groundhog day. No thanks. He’s proved he doesn't work so why go back.

We need to think outside of the bubble of proud Yorkshiremen if we want to compete with the big boys.
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Agreed. I don't know why as a fanbase we have this fascination of always looking back? Players and managers. It's no wonder we don't progress.
 
WF10BLADE said:
Why can't Sheffield United fans see beyond Bladey Blade appointments? Only in S2.
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Correct. People want the club to become successful but don’t want to leave their comfort zone.

“He’s one of us”

“He knows the club”

“He was great when he was here before until he wasn’t”

All bullshit. If we want a club that can be a success in the modern era the old ways won’t cut it. Looking at successful clubs of a similar size tells us that.
 
Bladezz said:
How any one can say Watford was a failure. He took over for 12 games and left. They are now doing a lot worse without him.

It’s just some people want to use anything to fit the narrative.
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And I know xg isn't everything but his Boro side wasn't quite as bad as the league table says if you believe xg averages out over the year.
 
Berkshire Blade said:
And I know xg isn't everything but his Boro side wasn't quite as bad as the league table says if you believe xg averages out over the year.
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His Boro side I believe I read was the top for Xg and the lowest XGA

Along with getting Tavernier who they didn’t want to be a 15m player and the same with Akpom.
 
crazyblade1889 said:
If we use this Cheltenham Town analogy. Would they still want that manager back if he then spunked a load of money on dross, and failed at 2 Championship clubs. Someone might say it was due to momentum and circumstances!
Only telling half the story.
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I was answering specifically to anyone denying what Wilder did for us was a miracle of proportions that rarely ever happens in football.
I'd say more of a miracle than Leicester winning the league.vBottom of league 1 to 5th in the Premier League, think we were 6 points behind 4th with a game in hand
using very average players....doesn't make any sense....surely that is impossible.

Agree, doubt Cheltenham would take back that manager in the same circumstances, unless there was a special circumstances and they were desperate.
At the moment it looks like we've got the worse performing manager in PL history, so I'd say we are fast approaching become desperate.
I've no doubt that with our upper to average Championship level players then any average manager would improve our performances and make us compete better.

Agree momentum played a part, looks like Ipswich Town might have found some of that "riding the crest of a wave" magic.
Partially agree about circumstances too, said this before we had the luxury of practising a sytem of playing in league 1, with zero pressure.
Wilder dropped lucky by having 2 centre backs that just happened to be brilliant and tailor made to play overlapping centre back.
Still don't rate Basham when he plays as centre back, or midfielder or as right back, but ask him to play all 3 positions in the same match and he was transformed.
Same with O'Connell, never rates as a centre back in a 4 at Brentford, however he was also decent as left back, so ask him to play as centre back and left wing back in the same match and he was brilliant too. Also we never had any injuries for about 2 or 3 years.
So the Baldock/ Basham pairing down the right and the Stevens/ O'Connell pairing down the left become like clockwork.
All these players knew what to do without even thinking and the overloads on the wings bamboozled the opposition.

Hence I have reservations about Wilder too. Confident we'd improve but would still be relegated but we are so desperate...I definitely prefer hm to keeping Hecky.
Obviously my first choice would be someone much better but I would imagine the Prince will only want to make a stop gap replacement (like we did with Blackwell).
 
Why only until the end of the season? A rescue act?

Didn’t work last time did it.
 

sufcboy95 said:
Wayne Rooney just resigned in the US. Has he had a phone call?
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If we get new owners....then that's the type of manager new owners would love to make.

To be fair it's not as daft as it sounds.....from a business point of view having a big name manager creates massive levels of world wide attention and interest.
Any new owner will look at the data and realise that no one (apart from Blades) have any interest in Heckingbottam, most people around the world have never heard of him. Also he's not got a "sexy" or controversial media profile, so we (Sheffield United FC) have hardly (relative to last time) received any media attention this year.
 
Nick Jansky said:
I’d take Rosenior in a heartbeat.
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But Rosenior has no experience at the top level. I'm near Ipswich where of course they are loving their football at the moment and a mate said the Hull team that lost 3-0 at Portman Road were the worst team he had seen all season
 
Nick Jansky said:
I tend to rely on league tables. Because xg isn’t actually anything.
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It doesn't always line up exactly but often is a better indicator especially early on in seasons.

To just dismiss it because it goes against your point of view is simply bias.
 
If we could all forgive and forget, perhaps Wilder would be a good manager "bounce" appointment.

I thought he left on poor terms, but as of yesterday I'm thinking it'd actually be quite exciting to have him back.

I don't really blame Hecky for our struggles this season though. Would be keen on Hecky moving to a Director of Football type role... if he's relieved of management.
 
There’s a falsehood in the suggestion that not wanting him back, based on following his final season and subsequent failure to recreate his previous successes - xg stats doesn’t earn points - mean that those brilliant seasons are somehow disregarded. Which is utter nonsense and pure straw man.

I’m not keen on him coming back because of what’s happened since that 9th place nothing to do with back door, £4m, ego or other gossip.
 
brownblade said:
. Would be keen on Hecky moving to a Director of Football type role... if he's relieved of management.
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Why? He basically used the outline of the Wilder side with a slightly bigger budget. It's not something I would particularly think we need above Wilder himself?
 
Chris53153 said:
Wilders second season was ended by the COVID shutdown. The disconnect because of no fans in the ground meant we lost the ability to play at 110% (which we need to to get a result in this league ) . Try him with the lane full again. It literally can't get any worse
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Oh it can.
From a Middlesbrough Fan.
 
Berkshire Blade said:
Why? He basically used the outline of the Wilder side with a slightly bigger budget. It's not something I would particularly think we need above Wilder himself?
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Intelligent, sensible man that understands the bigger picture, youth, succession planning etc.

It's how sensible teams operate.
 
brownblade said:
Intelligent, sensible man that understands the bigger picture, youth, succession planning etc.

It's how sensible teams operate.
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I am not against that type of role I just am not convinced Hecky is particularly brilliant. His game management is poor so why would his big picture planning be great.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Why only until the end of the season? A rescue act?

Didn’t work last time did it.
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If the Prince is selling the club, then he has no motivation to consider our long term future, it's not his decision.
His only interest is to help us stay up this season, we're still only a few points behind safety
wouldn't surprise me if a record low points keeps you up this season, so it's still worth fighting for.

but surely he won't want to spend much and more importantly he won't want to restrict new owners to being forced to
pay a lengthy contract to a new manager. Think any new owner will like the idea of coming in and being able to start afresh with a new manager of their choice.

This is why I would think the Princes ideal situation is to appoint a manager as a stop-gap, just for 1 season, low salary with a massive "avoid relegation" bonus.
There are very few managers that would accept crap terms but have an ego where they might fancy their chances of winning that lucrative bonus.
These would need to be managers with little to lose, so almost on the scrap heap, can only think of Big Sam and Wilder who might take such a contract.

If we're not being taken over and/or the Prince plans to stay for a few years then suspect he will think long term and go for an up and coming young manager.

The rescue acts choosing the cheap option have tended to work well at United.
Blackwell was brought in to replace Robson, no one liked the idea but it was accepted because it was only for 1 season.
Blackie did so well for us, taking us up the league resulting in a playoff final, he earned a contract extension.

When we got rid of Slav, again we choose the cheap option giving the job to the Academy manager Heckingbottam.
This lacked ambition but again it proved to be a success, we rose up the table and finished in the play-off semi final.
However there's a theory that Hecky only did well because he was lucky to have 2 of the best players in the league
in Gibbs-White and N'Diaye to help his team turn draws into wins.

In the last few decades when ever we've shown ambition by paying out big transfers for players or big salaries to managers it's never worked.
Where as the irony is when we've bought some bargain bucket players or choose the cheap option for managers, they've been our bigger successes.
 
Berkshire Blade said:
It doesn't always line up exactly but often is a better indicator especially early on in seasons.

To just dismiss it because it goes against your point of view is simply bias.
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Nothing to do with bias, everything to do with xg not reflecting actual reality most of the time. The only reliable measure is a league table.
 
Berkshire Blade said:
It doesn't always line up exactly but often is a better indicator especially early on in seasons.

To just dismiss it because it goes against your point of view is simply bias.
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Points gained lines up exactly. Ergo.
 

I think i’m now in favour of us getting rid of Hecky. The results are obviously bad, but it’s the manner in which we are losing and unwilling to change things that’s concerning me. I can take us losing most weeks, if we looked half bothered, like Luton.

Not sure if I’d want Wilder. My heart says yes, but head, no.
 
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