This money

[Junior Soduko]

Junior Soduko No point in saying random names, as that's too ambiguous a response. What I would turn around and say is 'which of these signings DO smack of investment?'.

Does a signing need to scream investment to merely to be deemed an accpetable and good signing? Surely Nigel Clough is thinking well if i can x,y and z for free or a very low fee then that enables me to use my funds elsewhere later in the window?

How much are you realistically thinking we are going to spend on transfer fees for a league 1 club? Personally if we signed a player for £1M, i would view this as a big money fee for a team in league 1. We are certainly not going to be signing players for upwards of a million imo.

Money doesn't guarantee quality and it certainly doesn't guarantee you promotion.

 

[Baildon Blade]

'Of course between now and then we could sell everyone, and buy no one, but as of right now the squad is stronger and I struggle to see how that could be argued against by any sane mind.'
Obviously I'm not of sound mind in that case Flatulent_Bob. Mind you having watched the blades for over 45 years that's not surprising. The squad is DEFINITELY not stronger now than at the end of the season, unless as blader says you judge it purely on numbers and not talent.

 

[blader]

Again I'll put the same question to you - how many times have you seen the new guys play to give an informed opinion?

campbell-Ryce - millions of times
Andy Butler - at least half a dozen
Chris Basham - similar
Marc McNulty - never
Chris Porter - way too f*cking many times
Ben Davies - 12 ish

I'll put a question in response, which is more 'on topic'. Have any of our new signings indicates we have a serious level of investment? (Even by league 1 standard)

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

campbell-Ryce - millions of times
Andy Butler - at least half a dozen
Chris Basham - similar
Marc McNulty - never
Chris Porter - way too f*cking many times
Ben Davies - 12 ish

I'll put a question in response, which is more 'on topic'. Have any of our new signings indicates we have a serious level of investment? (Even by league 1 standard)

OK, I'd say Brayford on loan last shows serious level of investment at league one level.
I'm interested that your saying that you've watch these players and deemed them not good enough for a promotion challenging league one side. Bearing in mind Davies and Porter were with us last year when we certainly were that under Clough, I'd be interested in seeing Butler, Basham and McNulty prove you incorrect.

 

[Bladesway]

"Don't pass about with stats to suit your own argument" has to be one of the strangest statement I've ever read.

Substitute Pass for Piss and you have it. Spell checker on my phone decided to get the better of me. However my point stands that you are being controversial without actually backing it up with anything meaningful. But belittle the spelling mistake if that makes your point.

As usual the Keyboard warriors know more than the manager. There were times in Robson and Blackwells days I may have gone with it but we have a bloke who knows what he is doing and looks like he is being supported by the money men. Proof is going to be next season but I do remember people questioning the signing of Scougall because he came from Scotland and the football up there is shit.

 

[blader]

OK, I'd say Brayford on loan last shows serious level of investment at league one level.
I'm interested that your saying that you've watch these players and deemed them not good enough for a promotion challenging league one side. Bearing in mind Davies and Porter were with us last year when we certainly were that under Clough, I'd be interested in seeing Butler, Basham and McNulty prove you incorrect.

Ha well you say it as if I don't WANT them to succeed, which obviously is the opposite of the truth. But seriously, do you believe our strongest team available:

Howard
??
Maguire
Collins/Butler
Harris
Flynn
Basham/Doyle
Scougall
Baxter
Murphy
Mcnulty

Is better than the side which walked out at wembley? The league Since Clough came in I think we finished 5th, so we need to IMPROVE on that team. I don't believe we have done that, do you?

 

[blader]

Substitute Pass for Piss and you have it. Spell checker on my phone decided to get the better of me. However my point stands that you are being controversial without actually backing it up with anything meaningful. But belittle the spelling mistake if that makes your point.

Didn't know it was a spelling mistake, I'm not that petty. See my other questions and answer if you think our team is better than last season. If you do, fair enough, biti don't.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

'Of course between now and then we could sell everyone, and buy no one, but as of right now the squad is stronger and I struggle to see how that could be argued against by any sane mind.'
Obviously I'm not of sound mind in that case Flatulent_Bob. Mind you having watched the blades for over 45 years that's not surprising. The squad is DEFINITELY not stronger now than at the end of the season, unless as blader says you judge it purely on numbers and not talent.

How is that the case, we've lost Coady and Brayford and that's it.
We had no out and out forward last season, that's no longer the case so we don't have to play Baxter out of position. We struggled to cover either of the centre halves, that's no longer the case as we have a replacement who's at a comparable level. We have strengthened the squad in terms of depth for pacey wingers to cover Flynn and Murphy with Campbell Ryce. We've retained our left back from that semi final team and now we're going for the bigger targets.

 

[Bladesway]

Didn't know it was a spelling mistake, I'm not that petty. See my other questions and answer if you think our team is better than last season. If you do, fair enough, biti don't.

I think Clough is building a team capable of winning the league. He is being financed to do it without spending money on washed up shite. Seems a good combination to me. We are without Coady and Brayford at this point because they are quite possible on Holiday and nothing can be tied up one way or the other until July.

A better question is do I trust the Manager to deliver a team that will push for promotion. Answer a resounding yes.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Is better than the side which walked out at wembley? The league Since Clough came in I think we finished 5th, so we need to IMPROVE on that team. I don't believe we have done that, do you?

You started with saying the squad is much weaker, and now you're saying first eleven.
You also said we've "a hell of a long way to go" to match Rotherhams squad from last season.

I've already said that it's a point up for debate if the starting eleven is stronger or not, personally I don't think there is much in it.
However its the 10th of June and this is our position that we have new signings in, and we can now target the bigger more expensive ones. That's unheard of at United, and that in some way goes to prove that things are different to what we've seen before.

 

[JOEYDEE]

I don't think the prince has put a penny in yet. That worries me. I actually think McCabe probably financed the loan signings last season and have heard nothing to contradict that thought.

On the other hand I do sense, like some above, that the DNA of the club has changed. When did we last have a MD who said "we do not have to sell our best players"? When did we last attract a manager like Clough. When did we last have a manager talk of long term opportunity and display such a sense of purpose mixed with realism?

12 months ago we were talking of "breaking even", KM had injected his last penny. The future was through youth in the long term. We would expect all the higher paid players to leave as soon as possible. Let's hope it would be before their contracts expired.

Believe me, Nigel Clough would not have taken another job so soon after his Derby experience if he had not been inspired by the opportunity. Massive club, great support, build it from low base, sensible funding to be introduced at all the right stages of success and development, total control - brother Chief Scout, pal as M.D., all own coaching staff plus Chris Morgan for a while - big salary, an opportunity to become Mr. SUFC. Without the prince he would not have joined us. He is a family man who would have taken the opportunity to spend some quality time with them.

The opportunity which KM presented to him inspired him. Not just because of KM, though he will have been important, but because of the prince. It was too good to refuse, a very rare opportunity.

The prince would be a fool to throw his millions at a League 1 situation. He will be more of a presence when we get to stage 2, that is, in the Championship. But why throw the big money at a League 1 situation when we have a club which should be waltzing through it anyway. Give Clough the tools, test him out, gain confidence in him and after that back him with whatever is necessary to get to the Premiership. After that, back him and his cronies to the hilt. Build a working relationship, make sure the lad has the hunger for the long haul. Never was Rome or the odd oil well built in a day!

Great post !I think this sums everything up so far ,apart from the use of the word 'cronies',think they deserve a little bit more respect than that !



cro·ny
noun\ˈkrō-nē\
: a close friend of someone; especially : a friend of someone powerful who is unfairly given special treatment or favors

 

[bricktop]

The bottom line is we have got a manager who knows what he is doing, and plenty of cash available to him given the investment.

The question has to be how much will it cost, and it is wise and sensible to do it without spending too much if we can do it, and i think Clough believes he can do it on a reasonable budget, and has identified the players that can help us do it within a reasonable budget, hence that is why we are not going stupid and making solid and steady aquisitions, bringing in players he believes will get us promoted.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Definitely the only time to judge the quality of the summer recruitment is on the first day of the new season. It has to be very encouraging that the manager has the bit between his teeth so early in the close season and he has made a series of solid, "grown up" signings, each and every one good characters and exemplary professionals. Even the young lad from Scotland has been checked out on the commitment and character aspects.

June is so early, indeed past managers have done nothing by this stage. Clough exudes the air of a bloke who knows exactly where he wants to be at the start of the season and he repeatedly tells us that the squad will be ready by then. More importantly he has the manner of a man who knows he has the tools to do the job and the ability to carry it out.

By the start of next season we will have the further additions of a marquee striker, at least one quality young loanee and one or two others; that much is obvious, common sense in fact. We have been told we will have a "very strong 4 man strike force" and that McNulty will have to "take his opportunities to get a place in the team". OK it appears Porter is one of those 4, but the manager rates him and sees him getting 10 - 15 goals, not bad for fourth choice.

We are told we don't need to sell Maguire so how important is that to Clough - to know he has the latitude to make a footballing decision to decide whether any fee can be used to improve the squad despite the loss of his best player, and the time to get to get that done. Part of that decision will be about life in the Championship in due course as Clough will know how important Maguire could be once we get there. Clough is planning beyond next season.

We should relax and have faith in the manager to have his squad in place for the pre-season friendlies and certainly not be panicing. The manager is clear about his brief and is confident he has the tools for the job and that we will be successful. Past managers have been confused about their budget and gave the impression of tackling the job piecemeal, reacting from day to day. They always talked of problems; Clough talks of solutions because the club is better placed than it was and he knows how good he is, certainly at this level with this budget.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Great post !I think this sums everything up so far ,apart from the use of the word 'cronies',think they deserve a little bit more respect than that !



cro·ny
noun\ˈkrō-nē\
: a close friend of someone; especially : a friend of someone powerful who is unfairly given special treatment or favors

You're right "crony" is too strong a word, maybe "followers" would be better.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Definitely the only time to judge the quality of the summer recruitment is on the first day of the new season. It has to be very encouraging that the manager has the bit between his teeth so early in the close season and he has made a series of solid, "grown up" signings, each and every one good characters and exemplary professionals. Even the young lad from Scotland has been checked out on the commitment and character aspects.

June is so early, indeed past managers have done nothing by this stage. Clough exudes the air of a bloke who knows exactly where he wants to be at the start of the season and he repeatedly tells us that the squad will be ready by then. More importantly he has the manner of a man who knows he has the tools to do the job and the ability to carry it out.

By the start of next season we will have the further additions of a marquee striker, at least one quality young loanee and one or two others; that much is obvious, common sense in fact. We have been told we will have a "very strong 4 man strike force" and that McNulty will have to "take his opportunities to get a place in the team". OK it appears Porter is one of those 4, but the manager rates him and sees him getting 10 - 15 goals, not bad for fourth choice.

We are told we don't need to sell Maguire so how important is that to Clough - to know he has the latitude to make a footballing decision to decide whether any fee can be used to improve the squad despite the loss of his best player, and the time to get to get that done. Part of that decision will be about life in the Championship in due course as Clough will know how important Maguire could be once we get there. Clough is planning beyond next season.

We should relax and have faith in the manager to have his squad in place for the pre-season friendlies and certainly not be panicing. The manager is clear about his brief and is confident he has the tools for the job and that we will be successful. Past managers have been confused about their budget and gave the impression of tackling the job piecemeal, reacting from day to day. They always talked of problems; Clough talks of solutions because the club is better placed than it was and he knows how good he is, certainly at this level with this budget.

"Leave it to Cloughie" would have saved a lot of typing.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Blader is obviously the S24SU sites' answer to that knobhead on Talksport Adrian Durham - comes out with absolute b*llocks throws it into the pot and then tries to justify it with weak and inane arguments !
How can you judge a squad that is being built for the coming season in the first two weeks in June - we must be one of the few clubs that has signed several solid performers at this level or above in Davis, Campbell-Ryce, Butler and one of Scotlands most promising youngsters - turn down two bids from cash rich Wolves for Maguire and on the verge of signing another quality performer James Wallace with one or two strikers to come in before August!
Still not enough for Blader who seems to think we should be tabling bids for Messi, Rooney, Luke Shaw and Ricky Lambert !
Take a holiday Blader from your ramblings of absolute sh!te and leave Messrs Clough and Brannigan to do the business that they are infinitely more skilled at than you are !

 

[Fiery Blade]

Add to the above list Basham - his last transfer cost Blackpool around £1.2 million !
Forgot about him in my original rant !

 

[SandyMcBlade]

I think the team as it stands is definitely stronger than it was at this time last year,and what people like Blader are talking about is the Icing on the cake "LOAN PLAYERS" and not the cake it's self ...
NC doesn't need a big expensive squad, just a capable one if he has the money to bring in a couple of loan players of the quality he had last season..

 

[blader]

Blader is obviously the S24SU sites' answer to that knobhead on Talksport Adrian Durham - comes out with absolute b*llocks throws it into the pot and then tries to justify it with weak and inane arguments !
How can you judge a squad that is being built for the coming season in the first two weeks in June - we must be one of the few clubs that has signed several solid performers at this level or above in Davis, Campbell-Ryce, Butler and one of Scotlands most promising youngsters - turn down two bids from cash rich Wolves for Maguire and on the verge of signing another quality performer James Wallace with one or two strikers to come in before August!
Still not enough for Blader who seems to think we should be tabling bids for Messi, Rooney, Luke Shaw and Ricky Lambert !
Take a holiday Blader from your ramblings of absolute sh!te and leave Messrs Clough and Brannigan to do the business that they are infinitely more skilled at than you are !

Well, I could start by thanking you for calling me a knobhead, always nice to hear positive responses.

I also think you, and many, have deterred from the purpose of the thread. I ended up in a debate that was completely off-topic. My question is 'where is all this money we've been promised?'. Anyone who makes a 'Messi' comparison usually means the end of a debate, but I will continue this for the purpose of clarity. I am comparing our signings to those made by the previously promoted teams... If you think Davies, Campbell-Rice and Butler (all on frees, might I add) are in the same category at Wolves' or Brentford's signings last summer, then I am afraid it is you who is, as you so delightful called it, the knobhead my good friend. and a deluded one at that.

 

[Bladesway]

Well, I could start by thanking you for calling me a knobhead, always nice to hear positive responses.

I also think you, and many, have deterred from the purpose of the thread. I ended up in a debate that was completely off-topic. My question is 'where is all this money we've been promised?'. Anyone who makes a 'Messi' comparison usually means the end of a debate, but I will continue this for the purpose of clarity. I am comparing our signings to those made by the previously promoted teams... If you think Davies, Campbell-Rice and Butler (all on frees, might I add) are in the same category at Wolves' or Brentford's signings last summer, then I am afraid it is you who is, as you so delightful called it, the knobhead my good friend. and a deluded one at that.

I would have got far more pissy being called Adrian Durham than knob head to be fair. Signings so far mean nothing. Judge them when they have played 10 or so games. What some people like you utterly fail to grasp is that this is a team game, no a squad game. We need 18-22 players who can all play their part.

I understand you are bored, we all are but flapping like a budgie in a trill factory just makes you look a bit, ummm well, like Adrian Durham.

Kudos for keeping this thread burning though, you have a future on white van man am if ever you need it.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Big money target for a team in League one and you want that deal done in June. I don't think you can call others deluded.

PS he didn't call you a knobhead he compared you to one on the radio because of you posts. He then went on the say why you were like him. Not really the same thing as calling you a knobhead.

 

[JOEYDEE]

Jeez,if we signed someone who cost a mill,I would be seriously worried about his mindset on joining a lge 1 club/team,(excluding Bray and CC ),
I think NC has done ok so far,and is keeping his powder dry for a couple of strikers,thats all that's missing IMHO,now I wonder who they might be ....hmmmmm

 

[Fiery Blade]

Well, I could start by thanking you for calling me a knobhead, always nice to hear positive responses.

I also think you, and many, have deterred from the purpose of the thread. I ended up in a debate that was completely off-topic. My question is 'where is all this money we've been promised?'. Anyone who makes a 'Messi' comparison usually means the end of a debate, but I will continue this for the purpose of clarity. I am comparing our signings to those made by the previously promoted teams... If you think Davies, Campbell-Rice and Butler (all on frees, might I add) are in the same category at Wolves' or Brentford's signings last summer, then I am afraid it is you who is, as you so delightful called it, the knobhead my good friend. and a deluded one at that.

As you may have seen in other responses I likened you to Durham from Talksport ! Not into calling you names !
As salaries have become more important than transfer fees especially for players in the lower leagues we are now seeing many more players being released for frees at the end of their contracts hence there are many more good players 'on the market' free transfers available. Why pay inflated transfer fees when that money could be used to pay salaries? It makes much more sense !
We are obviously in a far better financial state this season as it has already been stated over and over again that we do not have to sell any of our players to fund incoming signings.
Also as Mr Robson proved that signing players for big bucks didn't guarantee success - I would suggest we leave the football to Mr Clough - he seems to know what he wants, where he and the team are going and how to get there - be it by signing good solid players that have performed at this level, getting more out of existing players (eg Murphy and Flynn) or unearthing raw talent previously untried at this level (Scougall and McNulty ?)

 

[blader]

Again, after 5 pages of this thread I'm still not sure my OP has been answered!

Nigel has said he wants a small squad. After these signings we have 18 senior playing staff (not including Kennedy, Dimaio et al). So how many more signings can we expect? 2 or 3 at a push.

So my question was is this 'game changing investment' going to be seen in the playing staff? After all we've signed 5 players on frees and a nominal sum for McNulty, and as I say that doesnt indicate we are 'going for it' thus far. To me, many of our first team sat year were good squad players but not 1st teamers. So buying more squad players will just leave us with an average squad with few/no stars. Wolves, Brentford and Rotherham all spent big last year. League 1 does need serious investment if you want to get out of it nowadays. Not convinced this far the prince's involvement has seen us sign any players which would have been out of our reach before he arrived.

 

[raul]

What you needed to do was take the phrase "game changing investment" with the same large pinch of salt as " Europe in 5 years" and "because we are so well managed, we wont go the way of Norwich, Charlton and Southampton" amongst many, many other soundbites.

In the last 12 months things have, exponentially, improved at our club. Now we need to give everyone time to see how well that has been managed.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Again, after 5 pages of this thread I'm still not sure my OP has been answered!

Nigel has said he wants a small squad. After these signings we have 18 senior playing staff (not including Kennedy, Dimaio et al). So how many more signings can we expect? 2 or 3 at a push.

So my question was is this 'game changing investment' going to be seen in the playing staff? After all we've signed 5 players on frees and a nominal sum for McNulty, and as I say that doesnt indicate we are 'going for it' thus far. To me, many of our first team sat year were good squad players but not 1st teamers. So buying more squad players will just leave us with an average squad with few/no stars. Wolves, Brentford and Rotherham all spent big last year. League 1 does need serious investment if you want to get out of it nowadays. Not convinced this far the prince's involvement has seen us sign any players which would have been out of our reach before he arrived.

In turn you are ignoring the several facts that have already been put out by the club.
Firstly that large investment wasn't going to be at league one level but Championship/Premiership.
Secondly that Kennedy and others weren't included in the 18 as they were considered still as part of the development squad.
Before the Prince you think we would have had Baxter, Coady and Brayford last season?

 

[Pinchy]

Our manager would have been out of reach but for HRH! He's the best signing we've made for many years.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

On a somewhat related note, do we know when Cuvelier will be back?

*Another one we wouldn't have been able to afford without the Prince IMHO

 

[Living In a Fantasy World]

On a somewhat related note, do we know when Cuvelier will be back?

*Another one we wouldn't have been able to afford without the Prince IMHO

Thought he was out till the end of the year

 

[Kev Gee]

Without the prince we wouldnt have got Nigel Clough & we would probably have been relegated with Weir still in charge aswe wouldnt have beem able to pay him & his staff off.