Sack Wilder for Rubén Sellés - What's your verdict?

[Tony_Kaufman]

Sack Wilder? Good move.
Replace him with Selles? Time will tell.

 

[djbaldken]

Going on what Wilder has achieved for our club against what Selles has achieved in the game so far, I think this is a very bad move.
Time will tell if I'm right or wrong.

I had concerns about being taken over by an American bunch of venture capitalists, who know little about English football, looks like my concerns have some merit. Again time will tell.

 

[Shawy24]

I confess I generally don’t have a massive interest in other managers, knowing roughly what the ones close to home do and are capable of. So can someone briefly enlighten me as to what Seles has done in his career and what attributes makes him such a strong contender for manager in this most crucial season? What style does he play? Hopefully not suicide Swansea style.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Adkins was widely welcomed. I remember posting this to rave reviews

Thread 'Reading, Southampton and Scunny Views On Adkins'

Jun 2, 2015

https://roysviewfrom.wordpress.com/...ton-and-scunthorpe-fans-view-on-nigel-adkins/

• Roygbiv
• Replies: 39
• Forum: General Blades Chat

• 

The irony is every time we’ve gone ambitious and brought in a high profile manager it’s failed. Eg Robson, Adkin’s and Slav.

Where as managers who were slightly underwhelming and lower key have been much better. Bassett, Warnock, Wilson and Wilson.

So using that logic Selles might be a good choice. Anyhow I’ve voted unsure.

Any Blade who knows the history of our club would vote unsure because the irony is when ever we’ve shown ambition regards big money signings or high salary managers with impressive CV’s it’s always failed.

When ever we’ve done a low key signing or manager appointment, it’s always been more likely to be successful.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I'm very unsure. It may work but time will tell. The board can't afford to fuck it up.

Or maybe they can.

 

[programmechap]

The irony is every time we’ve gone ambitious and brought in a high profile manager it’s failed. Eg Robson, Adkin’s and Slav.

Where as managers who were slightly underwhelming and lower key have been much better. Bassett, Warnock, Wilson and Wilson.

So using that logic Selles might be a good choice. Anyhow I’ve voted unsure.

Any Blade who knows the history of our club would vote unsure because the irony is when ever we’ve shown ambition regards big money signings or high salary managers with impressive CV’s it’s always failed.

When ever we’ve done a low key signing or manager appointment, it’s always been more likely to be successful.

I have to say I'm mystified. Selles has had 3 seasons managing and his teams have finished bottom of the PL, 17th in League One and 21st in the championship.

Bassett, Wilder, Robson, Adkins, Jovanovic, Wilson and Warnock all had promotions on their CVs, whilst Selles has achieved literally nothing.

And it isn't even a case of experienced player given first managerial opportunity- like Peters, Bruce, Spackman, Speed and Weir.

I can't think of any other occasion where United have appointed someone with managerial experience and a complete lack of success.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

The irony is every time we’ve gone ambitious and brought in a high profile manager it’s failed. Eg Robson, Adkin’s and Slav.

Where as managers who were slightly underwhelming and lower key have been much better. Bassett, Warnock, Wilson and Wilson.

So using that logic Selles might be a good choice. Anyhow I’ve voted unsure.

Any Blade who knows the history of our club would vote unsure because the irony is when ever we’ve shown ambition regards big money signings or high salary managers with impressive CV’s it’s always failed.

When ever we’ve done a low key signing or manager appointment, it’s always been more likely to be successful.

Robson was a washed up has been and McCabe only hired him as he knew him. Robson failed at Middlesbrough where he had to get Venables in to help him towards the end. At West Brom he kept them up by losing one less game than the other relegated teams, not because he turned things around and they started winning. At Bradford he was a dismal failure.

Adkins. I'm not really sure why it went wrong as he was a very good manager before be came to us. He didn't help himself with Sammon, Hammond and Woolford as they were awful.

As for Slav, he was told he would be backed in the summer and he only got players in when he called the Prince out publicly late into the transfer window. He committed the sin of picking a formation that he didn't have the players for an shor horning players in to it. When he realised it wasn't working he changed back to a formation that suited what he had and results improved. By then the club panicked and sacked him anyway. We may well have gone up that season if we had kept him.

So, being adventurous in the past was circumstantial and doesn't tell a consistent story. One washed up has been. One good manager who just didn't work out. One manager who was mis-sold the club and lied to who was sacked just as he got us going.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I have to say I'm mystified. Selles has had 3 seasons managing and his teams have finished bottom of the PL, 17th in League One and 21st in the championship.

That’s because you don’t appear to understand things like context and perspective and what is considered success under varying circumstances.

 

[Wayne_Kerr89]

The best move would have been wilder choosing to adapt and be more of a head coach within the framework we are trying to build and carrying on the great results and half decent performances from last season taking feedback onboard and improving


Chris “it’s all about me” wilder chose not to do that because he is stubborn and that’s why his career peaked Norwich at home the game before Covid

Therefore the best option is to find a top coach selles appears to be one along with a bunch of other similar managers Rohl/Fuentes/Cooper/Hurzler etc ….

All coaches who accept clubs frameworks and work within that

Wilder is yesterdays man because he refuses to adapt and that’s on him

 

[Wayne_Kerr89]

I said last summer Wilder and his pissed up antics are a disgrace so they were, and it cost us. Seles is the man to take us forward so he is.

They aren’t a disgrace


When he is doing it every week it’s a fucking drain

 

[programmechap]

That’s because you don’t appear to understand things like context and perspective and what is considered success under varying circumstances.

Saving Hull from relegation may well be seen as a success but I'm struggling to see any success in his other seasons.

But in any event, extrapolated over a season his Hull results would have seen them finish 13th or 14th, which given they apparently have the 12th highest wage bill in the championship is pretty meh.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

That’s because you don’t appear to understand things like context and perspective and what is considered success under varying circumstances.

Results, results, results. Final league position. Everything else means poor manager.

Last season Scott Parker got Burnley promoted, Daniel Farke got Leeds promoted and Regis Le Bris got Sunderland promoted. All good managers. The other 21 managers are all poor because they didn't get promoted except Chris Wilder who is better than the other three, because of what he's done in the past and because he's one of us!!!

 

[Bladesman]

Adkins was widely welcomed. I remember posting this to rave reviews

Thread 'Reading, Southampton and Scunny Views On Adkins'

Jun 2, 2015

https://roysviewfrom.wordpress.com/...ton-and-scunthorpe-fans-view-on-nigel-adkins/

• Roygbiv
• Replies: 39
• Forum: General Blades Chat

• 

I think his downfall was he didn't' realise the bunch of cloggers he had been left with by Clough and the big mistake signing Hammond.

That said he hasn't really done anything since leaving us despite doing well for Scunny and Soton.

 

[Davalon]

Heath was great at explaining why we would lose in the pre-match press conference.

Robson at least was committed to hydration.

Adkins endeavoured to do well.

Wilson was a pisstake until I met him at one of the charm offensives Batho did with him. Spoke very well and was really likeable.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

As for Slav, he was told he would be backed in the summer and he only got players in when he called the Prince out publicly late into the transfer window. He committed the sin of picking a formation that he didn't have the players for an shor horning players in to it. When he realised it wasn't working he changed back to a formation that suited what he had and results improved. By then the club panicked and sacked him anyway. We may well have gone up that season if we had kept him.

Did they? In terms of points gained the five games leading up to his sacking were the worst run of results in the league we'd had that season

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[Tony_Kaufman]

Did they? In terms of points gained the five games leading up to his sacking were the worst run of results in the league we'd had that season

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View attachment 213772

If I remembered it wrong then fair enough. I thought he'd won his second to last game in charge.

 

[Lord Eddard Muir]

I like the question about which appointments got your personal biggest negative reactions. For me:

1. Heckingbottom. Mostly because of the 5 year contract. Screamed of an owner giving up. Worked out much better than expected.
2. Wilder (the second time). Felt like shoddy treateent of Hecky and how was he going to be any different. Worked out somewhat better than expected.
3. Micky Adams. The only manager we have ever appointed who I had genuinely never heard of in my life before he was announced. Worked out about as well as expected.

 

[programmechap]

Results, results, results. Final league position. Everything else means poor manager.

Last season Scott Parker got Burnley promoted, Daniel Farke got Leeds promoted and Regis Le Bris got Sunderland promoted. All good managers. The other 21 managers are all poor because they didn't get promoted except Chris Wilder who is better than the other three, because of what he's done in the past and because he's one of us!!!

Not at all. Given their resources, Gary Rowett did a good job keeping Oxford up. Given their resources, Selles having mid tableish results with Hull was meh..

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Not at all. Given their resources, Gary Rowett did a good job keeping Oxford up. Given their resources, Selles having mid tableish results with Hull was meh..

Sarcasm dude, sarcasm!

 

[Nick Jansky]

Not at all. Given their resources, Gary Rowett did a good job keeping Oxford up. Given their resources, Selles having mid tableish results with Hull was meh..

He was there for half a season. In Bassett’s first half season with us we were relegated.

 

[programmechap]

He was there for half a season. In Bassett’s first half season with us we were relegated.

But Bassett had taken Wimbledon from the 4th to the 1st division. He had a track record that could lead one to reasonably believe 87-8 was an aberration.

Selles' track record suggests he's just not very good.

 

[Nick Jansky]

But Bassett had taken Wimbledon from the 4th to the 1st division. He had a track record that could lead one to reasonably believe 87-8 was an aberration.

Selles' track record suggests he's just not very good.

We took Bassett following his sacking by Watford, where he had failed. We were a very different proposition to Wimbledon and at that point there were no guarantees he could replicate his success at a fairly unique club anywhere else. Happily, he did.

Your interpretation of Selles’ track record is your opinion but, as has been pointed out by several people, it lacks context so is flawed.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Did they? In terms of points gained the five games leading up to his sacking were the worst run of results in the league we'd had that season

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View attachment 213772

On the flip side his last 8 games were

Sheffield United 2 Stoke 1
Sheffield United 1 Milwall 2
Barnsley 2 Sheffield United 3
Sheffield United 0 Blackpool 1
Forest 1 Sheffield United 1
Blackburn 3 Sheffield United 1
Sheffield United 0 Coventry 0
Reading 0 Sheffield United 1

Your selected matches would be
P5 W1 D2 L2 Pts5

Mine would be
P8 W3 D2 L3 Pts11

Anyone can add or remove things to suit their own agenda.

You could argue that we failed to win 3 of his last 5 games. The flip side of the coin would be that we only lost 2 of his last 5 games and only lost 1 of his last 4 games in charge.

 

[programmechap]

We took Bassett following his sacking by Watford, where he had failed. We were a very different proposition to Wimbledon and at that point there were no guarantees he could replicate his success at a fairly unique club anywhere else. Happily, he did.

Your interpretation of Selles’ track record is your opinion but, as has been pointed out by several people, it lacks context so is flawed.

Go on, tell me the context that suggests Selles has had a successful managerial career. All I can recall people saying is that he had a crazy owner at Hull.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Go on, tell me the context that suggests Selles has had a successful managerial career. All I can recall people saying is that he had a crazy owner at Hull.

It’s all set out on here for you to read. If you’re too lazy to do that, that’s not my fault. I’m not going to be continually repeating myself for someone who doesn’t appear to have researched or understood his career to date and doesn’t understand that success means different things at different clubs under different circumstances. I’ve wasted enough time on you now.

 

[programmechap]

It’s all set out on here for you to read. If you’re too lazy to do that, that’s not my fault. I’m not going to be continually repeating myself for someone who doesn’t appear to have researched or understood his career to date and doesn’t understand that success means different things at different clubs under different circumstances. I’ve wasted enough time on you now.

So that's a no, then.

I see there were all sorts of problems at Reading in 23-4, but he did have a set of players who would have stayed up the previous season were it not for a points deduction.

So, at best, finishing 17th was a meh performance, given all.the circumstances and that seems to be his history. Gets called in with clubs in crisis and doesn't really do that much better (his record at Southampton was marginally worse than.the previous manager).

Maybe he is a decent ish ship steadier for crisis clubs. But that's not us. We're one of the favourites for promotion. There's nothing at all in his record which suggests he's a good fit for a club like that.

If he is appointed, I really hope I'm wrong and that we storm the league. But at the moment, I can't see it.

 

[jt64]

Sounds like we're sacking Wilder to appoint Rubén Sellés. Whats your verdict on that?

Bonus question:
In your time watching United which managerial appointment got the worst reaction from you on the day it was announced?
If your answer is "Danny Wilson because he's a pig", then try and provide a 2nd answer too.

Adkins for #2

 

[Silent Blade]

Go on, tell me the context that suggests Selles has had a successful managerial career. All I can recall people saying is that he had a crazy owner at Hull.

I think the board have appointed Selles as the head coach rather than be a "hands on" manager like Wilder. It is the American way of running the club.

 

[programmechap]

W

I think the board have appointed Selles as the head coach rather than be a "hands on" manager like Wilder. It is the American way of running the club.

Well, We'll have to see, but his coaching CV is pretty underwhelming.

 

[shorehamview]

Wilson was a pisstake until I met him at one of the charm offensives Batho did with him. Spoke very well and was really likeable.

I met Wilson at one of these little chats. He came across as a knowledgable and likeable bloke, and although I didn't want him at first because of his Wednesday connections and also, promotion with Barnsley aside, I wasn't impressed by his track record I was pleasantly surprised, and didn't think he deserved he sack when it came.

Robson though, fuck me. I knew he'd be a disaster, and he was.

Adkins? I thought it was a fantastic appointment. Shows what I know.