Run the gauntlet

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Ollessendro said:
Wilson has 'got no money' to spend, yet we can stump up the cash to offer mr VFM a contract until the end of the season (http://www.sufc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10418~2589646,00.html). Why not offer him a lucrative 3 year contract to finish his career with United? We love these VFM twilight deals. And after all he did wear Sheff Utd shin pads (on the treatment table) at Rangers. To be fair, he deserves it. The contribution he has made has been immense. Our recent winning run is clearly down to him being in and around the dressing room. Did you see the way he 'protected' Lowton last week. Never mind the 3 game ban and loss of the game. What a hero. Perhaps he can do a few visits to Hallamshire hospital whilst he is collecting his 5 figure salary and sitting out the next 3 games.

Pretty good job none of you had the balls to take on my bet. Even Porter has found the net twice since BT has been here.
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Go on, Ill' bite,,,

What's your source for saying he has a 5 figure salary?

PS: I suggested to you that we have a bet as to who would score more goals, Porter or Beattie. You declined my bet :-)
 



Keep him. He's looked sharp in his brief cameos and his movements still there. My understanding is his potential deal would be heavily loaded towards appearances and specifically goals. Popular in the dressing room, very experience and bit of a leader.

Now if we can have Riordan or Clarke as well...!!!
 
>I suggested to you that we have a bet as to who would score more goals, Porter or Beattie
can't remember who bet on what but porter currently leads quite easily
 
Rodley said:
Keep him. He's looked sharp in his brief cameos and his movements still there. My understanding is his potential deal would be heavily loaded towards appearances and specifically goals. Popular in the dressing room, very experience and bit of a leader.

Now if we can have Riordan or Clarke as well...!!!
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'Popular in the dressing room" ... so was Kozzy.

'Experienced' ... over the hill?

'Bit of a leader' ... Great job he did in his last match.

Sorry, but I'm still not convinced.
 
Fair play Ollie, in the loan period to date, he's not had much chance, but Wilson hasn't risked him.

Simply he hasn't been value for money on the pitch.

That said, its not something to gloat about.

Wilson would've been under no pressure to re-sign him, even if McCabe thought it a good idea first time around, Wilson could've justifiably said thanks but no thanks now based on fitness and performance (including discipline).

McCabes commercial argument is all but lost now, McCabe is on record stating that he likes players who can put 1-2k on the attendances, which BT probably did v Notts County and Hartlepool (arguably even Bury away). But the reality is that people will have seen how BT has been utilised and how he has performed to date, so the calculated commercial gamble is almost eradicated now.

Perhaps an upside now is that after his 3 game ban, he comes back in contention for Huddersfield, Preston and Pigs, so will be a timely boost. Plus they may think he's passed it.

Plus I'd love to see him up against the pigs Centre halves. BT, Cresswell and Porter will batter them, Ched will run them ragged on the deck!

It looks bleak if this is the best we bring in, it looks bleaker if we sell Ched/ Cresswell to accomodate him... but it could just work out

30-40% chance of success
 
SwissBlade said:
Fair play Ollie, in the loan period to date, he's not had much chance, but Wilson hasn't risked him.

Simply he hasn't been value for money on the pitch.

That said, its not something to gloat about.

Wilson would've been under no pressure to re-sign him, even if McCabe thought it a good idea first time around, Wilson could've justifiably said thanks but no thanks now based on fitness and performance (including discipline).

McCabes commercial argument is all but lost now, McCabe is on record stating that he likes players who can put 1-2k on the attendances, which BT probably did v Notts County and Hartlepool (arguably even Bury away). But the reality is that people will have seen how BT has been utilised and how he has performed to date, so the calculated commercial gamble is almost eradicated now.

Perhaps an upside now is that after his 3 game ban, he comes back in contention for Huddersfield, Preston and Pigs, so will be a timely boost. Plus they may think he's passed it.

Plus I'd love to see him up against the pigs Centre halves. BT, Cresswell and Porter will batter them, Ched will run them ragged on the deck!

It looks bleak if this is the best we bring in, it looks bleaker if we sell Ched/ Cresswell to accomodate him... but it could just work out

30-40% chance of success
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I find it hard to believe that Beattie is on anything other than a very cheap deal (quite possibly a pay per play/goals deal). It would be madness to have signed him - given his failure to pull up any trees so far - on any other basis.

As I have said before, playing for United is pretty much a hobby for Beattie now. He is no doubt already set up for life financially and his level of fitness is such that he can't get a better deal at a higher level. If we are paying him the equivalent of peanuts, I don't see any downside to the deal.
 
Darren said:
I find it hard to believe that Beattie is on anything other than a very cheap deal (quite possibly a pay per play/goals deal). It would be madness to have signed him - given his failure to pull up any trees so far - on any other basis.

As I have said before, playing for United is pretty much a hobby for Beattie now. He is no doubt already set up for life financially and his level of fitness is such that he can't get a better deal at a higher level. If we are paying him the equivalent of peanuts, I don't see any downside to the deal.
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I'm sure you're right on the finances of it (pay per play, goals or even % of attendances) but if a cheap signing comes at the expense of a player that we can get 90 mins & goals out of, then thats your downside.

Given the option:
BT or Clarke - my choice would be Clarke on this seasons form.

Like I said, Wilson has gone into this with his eyes open, he lives by this decision... I doubt he would take the risk if he didnt think there was a very good chance of success.
 
Yes, because we have a fantastic record of getting VFM out of contracts.

What is it with United and wanting to get over the hill players back. It is actually embarassing hearing thousands of fans singing the name of their 'hero' when the guy clearly has nothing to offer (unlike the rest of the team that's playing well). He's clearly no impressed Wilson enough to start (despite us playing none league opposition), failed to impress when he has been on and then shown incredible stupidity and ill discipline. Now he's out for 3 games. When exactly is he going to start a match? He's dragging a salary that could be spent on a younger, more athletic and quicker player. . Bums on seats? What nonsense. I can tell you that I went to Bury and Charlton to see SUFC. I made the extra effort because it was convinient (short trip on both accounts) and we are playing very well. 10 wins out of our last 12 is the reason why attendences might have gone up. And anyway, why didn't Mr VFM attract any extra punters for the Yeovil game on that Tuesday night. Complete waste of money. Almost as bad as the Aksalu deal.
 
Ollessendro said:
Complete waste of money. Almost as bad as the Aksalu deal.
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Because he didn't play, it's a waste of money? Those smoke alarms you've got, are those a waste of money? Do you have home insurance?

Again, until you tell us all how you got access to the contract details, your opinion on this is pretty much void. Which is funny, considering how loudly you're trying to broadcast it.
 
Ollessendro said:
Yes, because we have a fantastic record of getting VFM out of contracts.

What is it with United and wanting to get over the hill players back. It is actually embarassing hearing thousands of fans singing the name of their 'hero' when the guy clearly has nothing to offer (unlike the rest of the team that's playing well). He's clearly no impressed Wilson enough to start (despite us playing none league opposition), failed to impress when he has been on and then shown incredible stupidity and ill discipline. Now he's out for 3 games. When exactly is he going to start a match? He's dragging a salary that could be spent on a younger, more athletic and quicker player. . Bums on seats? What nonsense. I can tell you that I went to Bury and Charlton to see SUFC. I made the extra effort because it was convinient (short trip on both accounts) and we are playing very well. 10 wins out of our last 12 is the reason why attendences might have gone up. And anyway, why didn't Mr VFM attract any extra punters for the Yeovil game on that Tuesday night. Complete waste of money. Almost as bad as the Aksalu deal.
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So what would you be saying if he gets the winner at swillsborough? or the goal to take us up?
 
Not sure what a VFM is, I find this petty name calling of players, managers etc a little bit childish and disrespectful and I think the posts lose credibility.

It also makes me laugh when people claim to put their trust in Wilson's ability, fail to then allow him the chance to take the risk.

Wilson has surprised a number of us in a number of ways, I'm personally begining to come around to him. Flynn looked like a lost child when he started for us. Collins had lost the plot. Simmo was gone when he was dropped and Ched was a useless waste of money. Yet Wilson has played a part in bringing all of them on, with time.

Sure Wilson is now at the business end of the season. A busy month looms, but perhaps Wilson sees an opportunity in BT that goes beyond the bums on seats and pay packet.

As I said previously, I think its a gamble, its a fairly large gamble and I'd like to think there were more incoming players to come, but perhaps we might all get a surprise and Wilson might've managed to bag a half decent PL striker on the cheap, two divisions below his ability.... Or he could be a dud.
 
Isn't there a picture of some Blades unhappy with Wilson somewhere?
 



Ollessendro said:
He's dragging a salary that could be spent on a younger, more athletic and quicker player
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I count us all very lucky that it's taken five days for you to get back on this particular hobby horse.

My learned friend Darren has asked you what Beattie's salary is and your source and you haven't answered him, so now there's two of us asking, do tell.

It would be futile to argue that BT has done anything to justify more than the minimum wage, but I'm happy to leave it to the manager to judge these things and make his decisions accordingly.

My reason for that is that he's better equipped to decide than I am, though obviously, he won't know quite as much as you.
 
Swiss, the Treasury's definition of value for money VFM is "securing the best mix of quality and effectiveness for the least outlay over the period of use". The National Audit Office defines it as "good value for money as the optimal use of resources to achieve the intended outcomes". As me, you, Darren or Trig could have contributed the same for a hell of a lot less, then I would argue that BT is poor VFM. My point is that for the same, or even less, we could get a better player. Billy Clarke for one. However I am absolutely positive there are younger, fitter, hungrier and quicker players out there that are available for less.

Actually, to be honest Trig, I think I have been doing pretty well on laying off the 'I told you'. Everything that I said (and took a lot of stick for) has come true. BT has been an absolute flop. Drawn his wages by warming the bench, laying on the treatment table and then the odd cameo. Naff all goals and even a red card to throw in the mix. Marcus Bent mark III.
 
Darren said:
Go on, Ill' bite,,,

What's your source for saying he has a 5 figure salary?

PS: I suggested to you that we have a bet as to who would score more goals, Porter or Beattie. You declined my bet :-)
Click to expand...

That's a bit rich! You declined mine only last week, claiming you didn't bet on football! Still, you saved yourself a fiver.
 
Ollessendro said:
Swiss, the Treasury's definition of value for money VFM is "securing the best mix of quality and effectiveness for the least outlay over the period of use". The National Audit Office defines it as "good value for money as the optimal use of resources to achieve the intended outcomes". As me, you, Darren or Trig could have contributed the same for a hell of a lot less, then I would argue that BT is poor VFM. My point is that for the same, or even less, we could get a better player. Billy Clarke for one. However I am absolutely positive there are younger, fitter, hungrier and quicker players out there that are available for less.

Actually, to be honest Trig, I think I have been doing pretty well on laying off the 'I told you'. Everything that I said (and took a lot of stick for) has come true. BT has been an absolute flop. Drawn his wages by warming the bench, laying on the treatment table and then the odd cameo. Naff all goals and even a red card to throw in the mix. Marcus Bent mark III.
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Ollie, I know what Value for Money is.

Fortunately we don't pay BT's wages.

Clearly we can't and couldn't get a better player...

- When we signed BT he was a free agent, wo got him on a short term contract.
- We want Billy Clarke on loan (presumably for financial reasons) and Blackpool want to sell him...

Darren and Trigger have both asked you about BT's salary, you're stating again that there are players available for less. So come on, whats BT on now?
 
6 pages!!! Really ?? :eek:

Beattie will score more goals than Porter from now until the end of the season. (He's not playing the next 3 games either.)

Run the gaunlet Ollie!??!?
 
Pinchy said:
That's a bit rich! You declined mine only last week, claiming you didn't bet on football! Still, you saved yourself a fiver.
Click to expand...

Consistency is the virtue of the small minded (or something like that )

:-)
 
Ollessendro said:
What is it with United and wanting to get over the hill players back. It is actually embarassing hearing thousands of fans singing the name of their 'hero' when the guy clearly has nothing to offer (unlike the rest of the team that's playing well). He's clearly no impressed Wilson enough to start (despite us playing none league opposition), failed to impress when he has been on and then shown incredible stupidity and ill discipline.
Click to expand...

How good was Darius Henderson last season after his year out injured? Did he find his form straight away? Or, even at all? Think the answer there is no.

Did you want to sell him in the summer? Probably.
Did you want to sell Evans in the summer? Probably.

How many goals has Henderson scored in the division above (now he's regained fitness)? 12 (two Hat-Tricks too)
How many goals has Evans scored? 17
How many had Evans scored in the previous two seasons combined? 13

Give him a fucking chance please. He's coming back from a long lay off.

The one thing i can say about Wilson that has annoyed me this season is that he didn't start Beattie against Salisbury. But, I think this just proves how committed to the cause Wilson is. He doesn't want to tamper with his team. If we're winning, why change it.

One thing that annoyed me with Beattie is - The silly red card.
 
SwissBlade said:
Ollie, I know what Value for Money is.

Fortunately we don't pay BT's wages.

Clearly we can't and couldn't get a better player...

- When we signed BT he was a free agent, wo got him on a short term contract.
- We want Billy Clarke on loan (presumably for financial reasons) and Blackpool want to sell him...

Darren and Trigger have both asked you about BT's salary, you're stating again that there are players available for less. So come on, whats BT on now?
Click to expand...

One minute you don't know what VFM is. The next you do. Make your mind up. Are you seriously saying that BT has been VFM? Even Trig says he has not been worth minimum wage. Whether he has been earning 10k a week or just getting a few grand for his 7 minute cameo's he has contributed nothing.

The truth is that no one knows how much BT is on. The club have not stated that he is on a pay as you play contract, but they have stated he is not busting the bank. Apparently he stated he would stay 'if the club could afford him' to a fan out on the town. But that could be hearsay. With his track rcord since he left Stoke he should not be commanding a big salary. That said, it is James Beattie and he does have an agent. I do not buy this SUFC loyalty bollocks. It is just there is no other club daft enough to risk signing him and no other club with such a deluded, sentimental fan base.

My educated guess is that Mr VFM is earning himself at least 10k a week.

shorehamview said:
Well done Olle. A habit that must have been harder to quit than crack cocaine.

[youtube]nb8_FNC8Bdw[/youtube]
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Good advert that SV. And believe it or not, when I got my first car (a 997cc ford fiesta) I had some green fluffy dice in the mirror :)
 
Ollessendro said:
One minute you don't know what VFM is. The next you do. Make your mind up. Are you seriously saying that BT has been VFM? Even Trig says he has not been worth minimum wage. Whether he has been earning 10k a week or just getting a few grand for his 7 minute cameo's he has contributed nothing.

The truth is that no one knows how much BT is on. The club have not stated that he is on a pay as you play contract, but they have stated he is not busting the bank. Apparently he stated he would stay 'if the club could afford him' to a fan out on the town. But that could be hearsay. With his track rcord since he left Stoke he should not be commanding a big salary. That said, it is James Beattie and he does have an agent. I do not buy this SUFC loyalty bollocks. It is just there is no other club daft enough to risk signing him and no other club with such a deluded, sentimental fan base.

My educated guess is that Mr VFM is earning himself at least 10k a week.
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I know what Value for Money is, its VFM I didnt know.

I never said that BT to date has been good value.

10k a week - not a chance, not as a basic. He'd play 90 mins every game for that.
 



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