Results or style?

[Robbie]

There seems to be some confusion on here.

When Blackwell was in charge, he had a decent win record (44% he'll tell you) but with awful awful football.

A lot of fans wanted to see 'football' and were happy to see a progression made.

However, Tuesday we lost 4-0 to Scunthorpe, we played some great stuff, on another day could easily have won 4-0 ourselves, and some fans are lambasting the regime and calling it an awful result etc.

Now with the funds that are available (seemingly zilch) and the team that Speed has been left with, what do people want?

Would they rather we have Blackwell back and be comfortable in this league, or what would you want to take a risk and keep Speed in, let him bring some fresh ideas and maybe get a couple of pummelings because of his inexperience?

I like the idea of the latter, I've always been an advocate (whether, watching, playing or managing) that no matter the score, we should always be looking to score goals. Sometimes it will backfire horrendously (a la Tuesday) but sometimes, it will be absolute bliss.

My opinion is that we should be getting behind the team, back through the turnstiles and celebrate a new era I've not felt this positive for a long time.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Speedo must get the defence right!
No amount of fast free flowing football will cover up our defensive howlers we comitted on Tuesday night!
We shouldn't have to pawn results for better football - if we had defended well we would have drawn 0-0 not lost!
I don't subscribe to having one thing or another
Speedo proved that playing better football can get results ( see Sat v Derby) but he needs to get all aspects of his team performing to their best
Tuesdays defending and finishing were awful and he needs some of the players to stand up and be counted - Nosworthy, Bartley, Evans and Cresswell for starters!

 

[Micalijo]

There seems to be some confusion on here.

When Blackwell was in charge, he had a decent win record (44% he'll tell you) but with awful awful football.

A lot of fans wanted to see 'football' and were happy to see a progression made.

However, Tuesday we lost 4-0 to Scunthorpe, we played some great stuff, on another day could easily have won 4-0 ourselves, and some fans are lambasting the regime and calling it an awful result etc.

Now with the funds that are available (seemingly zilch) and the team that Speed has been left with, what do people want?

Would they rather we have Blackwell back and be comfortable in this league, or what would you want to take a risk and keep Speed in, let him bring some fresh ideas and maybe get a couple of pummelings because of his inexperience?

I like the idea of the latter, I've always been an advocate (whether, watching, playing or managing) that no matter the score, we should always be looking to score goals. Sometimes it will backfire horrendously (a la Tuesday) but sometimes, it will be absolute bliss.

My opinion is that we should be getting behind the team, back through the turnstiles and celebrate a new era I've not felt this positive for a long time.

I don't see where you get this 'great stuff' from. we lost 4-0. Nowt to do with Speedo and all to do with the shite left behind by Blackwell and this will be the case for ages in my eyes but can you gove me examples of this great stuff? Creswell got free and we played a nice ball in for wardy when he hit the post but other than that I recall most of our chances coming from corners. I don't recall any scintillating play leading up to these corners. I recall alot of very basic passing in front of their defence and but it is the minimum I'd expect from pro footballers.

we have no pace and the style of play is totally unsuited to the players. The squad left by Blackwell is so bad that we cannot play long ball or pass it. It is a scandal that the top brass allowed him to inflict so much damage and poor old Speedo has an impossible task unless he can bring in alot of new players. Unfortunaetly we still pay very high wages to very poor players and they will be going nowhere.

In answer to the question I am greedy and want results and style. It is perfectly possible and Speedo will have all the time in the world as far as I'm concerned, certainly until he is allowed to bring some new faces in.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Good thread Robbie. At the end of the day people need to make their minds up about what they want. The problem with football fans is that they want it all ways and think their side has some sort of divine right to win 99% of games whilst playing like Arsenal. Now whilst we all want this in an ideal world, it doesnt take a genius to realise that a club with more limited resources has to take a long term view of creating a side in any image.

Tuesday was one of the casualties of transition I'm afraid. A lot of sides that try to change their overall culture and playing style have suffered heavy defeats in the past during the early stages of change. Ive seen it before so whilst Tuesday was a bizarre game its not unusual for something like that to happen.

Over the last two / two and a half games ive seen some of the best football at Bramall Lane since the Spackman days and I found it thrilling. Really entertaining, well worth the cost of my season ticket. Like anyone else I hate to see my team get spanked....but I took it on the chin because I could see we were trying to play the game the proper way and I realise that transformation will take time.

Gary Speed has a lot of work to do, but I have faith in him. I like the things he says and I believe he is a man of principle. Tuesday will have hurt him but he wont let it throw him of course and he will stick to what he believes in.....as will Sam Ellis and John Carver. We have a good backroom team and we have a good solid core of players so whilst I think Speedo needs some financial backing.....he has a starting block to work from.

Results like the Scunthorpe one arent acceptable and we shouldnt tolerate them often but I think the sensible amongst us can see that it was a freak game and United will learn from it. We have to remember that prior to that we had conceded 1 goal in Speed's three games in charge.....so lets not leap on the defence instantly. A couple of players just had a bad half, simple as that.

My answer to your original question.....results AND style please, though I recognise they dont always come at once. I'm happy to settle for style (within reason) for the time being as long as it leads to long term benefits and I think it will.

 

[Micalijo]

Good thread Robbie. At the end of the day people need to make their minds up about what they want. The problem with football fans is that they want it all ways and think their side has some sort of divine right to win 99% of games whilst playing like Arsenal. Now whilst we all want this in an ideal world, it doesnt take a genius to realise that a club with more limited resources has to take a long term view of creating a side in any image.

Tuesday was one of the casualties of transition I'm afraid. A lot of sides that try to change their overall culture and playing style have suffered heavy defeats in the past during the early stages of change. Ive seen it before so whilst Tuesday was a bizarre game its not unusual for something like that to happen.

Over the last two / two and a half games ive seen some of the best football at Bramall Lane since the Spackman days and I found it thrilling. Really entertaining, well worth the cost of my season ticket. Like anyone else I hate to see my team get spanked....but I took it on the chin because I could see we were trying to play the game the proper way and I realise that transformation will take time.

Gary Speed has a lot of work to do, but I have faith in him. I like the things he says and I believe he is a man of principle. Tuesday will have hurt him but he wont let it throw him of course and he will stick to what he believes in.....as will Sam Ellis and John Carver. We have a good backroom team and we have a good solid core of players so whilst I think Speedo needs some financial backing.....he has a starting block to work from.

Results like the Scunthorpe one arent acceptable and we shouldnt tolerate them often but I think the sensible amongst us can see that it was a freak game and United will learn from it. We have to remember that prior to that we had conceded 1 goal in Speed's three games in charge.....so lets not leap on the defence instantly. A couple of players just had a bad half, simple as that.

My answer to your original question.....results AND style please, though I recognise they dont always come at once. I'm happy to settle for style (within reason) for the time being as long as it leads to long term benefits and I think it will.

How many sides lose 4-0 at home to relegation certainties within a few games of a new manager taking over? What are the other examples of teams changing styles and getting battered? Howard Kendall and SUFC?

You are way over the top about the entertainment on show in my opinion. Maybe you are basically comparing it to Blackwell and yes it is obviously better but we now have very limited footballers trying to pass it around with no pace. Plenty of through balls were overhit and they were pointless anyway because nobody has the pace to get onto them and I include wardy in that against a reasonable defender.

None of this is a criticism of speed by the way! More than happy with speedo and can't wait fro match tomorrow.

If you think Tuesday was better than alot of games under warnock when Kabba, Macca, Browny, Tongy, Nuddy, Ships, Unsworth etc were on song I think you are very badly mistaken. Look at the two games against Leeds in 05/06 as a starting point for exciting attacking football.

 

[Robbie]

I don't see where you get this 'great stuff' from.

I think the key word you left out was 'some', there was some great stuff.

but can you gove me examples of this great stuff? Creswell got free and we played a nice ball in for wardy when he hit the post but other than that I recall most of our chances coming from corners.

You've given one very good example and another decent one.
While Calve had no end product on quite a few occasions, the movement down on the right flank was good to watch, we are just missing an end product on a more regular basis.
The left flank could do with some work.
Centre midfield needs a more attacking influence rather than Ertl and Monty, but we still created plenty through the middle.
We looked dangerous on a few corners, but the main threat for me came from open play.

I would like to see less crosses from deep positions though, but I imagine this will come in time.

we have no pace and the style of play is totally unsuited to the players.

Yet they still managed some very meaningfull aproaches.

In answer to the question I am greedy and want results and style.

I believe we can have both, but given time.

 

[mattbianco1]

The question in the thread title is one that clearly can't be answered round here.

My answer is RESULTS.

Thing is we were getting results under Blackwell. We finished 7th after nearly going down under Robson. Then 3rd. Then just outside play offs last season even though we had an unsettled side and loads of injuries.

BUT, that's not good enough is it? Everybody moaned and booed and got him the sack for playing shit boring football.. Now we have good easy to watch football and are struggling to get the results and people moan again.

I do feel given time we could get both but just can't understand the pressure mounting on Speed after one bad result. RESULT not performance! I would've prefered to play toss and win 1 nil mind you!

 

[SteelCity Blade]

How many sides lose 4-0 at home to relegation certainties within a few games of a new manager taking over? What are the other examples of teams changing styles and getting battered? Howard Kendall and SUFC?

You see Scunthorpe as relegation certanties? Thats a bit disrespectul I think considering the quality of their finishing and the fact that they beat their fair share of bigger clubs.

Ive seen the same thing happen to Bristol City for one (who are supported by a good friend of mine).....he agreed on transition as we were there when a similar thing happened to them. It sometimes happens when sides totally alter their way of playing, you just choose not to acknowledge that because you would prefer to single out United for being crap.....thats up to you and you're entitled. But assuming you have been watching football (at least) as long as me, you would know that transition can be a bumpy ride.

You are way over the top about the entertainment on show in my opinion. Maybe you are basically comparing it to Blackwell and yes it is obviously better but we now have very limited footballers trying to pass it around with no pace. Plenty of through balls were overhit and they were pointless anyway because nobody has the pace to get onto them and I include wardy in that against a reasonable defender.

That is indeed your opinion mic, but its funny that most dont agree with you.

None of this is a criticism of speed by the way! More than happy with speedo and can't wait fro match tomorrow.

Good.....try to enjoy it

If you think Tuesday was better than alot of games under warnock when Kabba, Macca, Browny, Tongy, Nuddy, Ships, Unsworth etc were on song I think you are very badly mistaken. Look at the two games against Leeds in 05/06 as a starting point for exciting attacking football.

Warnock was a kick and rush merchant so dont fool yourself. He was extremely lucky that the two years you refer to, he had some very good players.....admittedly he had signed most of them himself and I dont take that away from him.....

I know you're going to take "kick and rush" as me suggesting he was a long ball merchant but despite what some think.....thats not what it means. Warnock's plan A consisted of getting it forward as quickly as possible and if in doubt, knock it out to the wings. For plan B see plan A. He had some very good players at the time who (fortunately for all of us) could mix it up and show ingenuity. You conveniently forget the two seasons between those where United were horribly inconsistent and offered up some dull performances.

 

[Bayingblade]

The question in the thread title is one that clearly can't be answered round here.

My answer is RESULTS.

Thing is we were getting results under Blackwell. We finished 7th after nearly going down under Robson. Then 3rd. Then just outside play offs last season even though we had an unsettled side and loads of injuries.

BUT, that's not good enough is it? Everybody moaned and booed and got him the sack for playing shit boring football.. Now we have good easy to watch football and are struggling to get the results and people moan again.

I do feel given time we could get both but just can't understand the pressure mounting on Speed after one bad result. RESULT not performance! I would've prefered to play toss and win 1 nil mind you!

Struggling to get results Matt?? Speedo has a 50% win ratio!!!

 

[Selly]

In the longer term, of course, it is results that matter. In the shorter term I am prepared to sacrifice a few games (results wise) in the hope of building a foundation of better, more entertaining football in the longer term.

Of course if the correct results don`t follow the style of football then things have to change. The tipping point is probably a matter of personal preference.

Fro what has ben said, if we continue to play as wedid on Tuesday, w'll be winning more than we lose so all will be well.

 

[davidpinder]

To answer the question in the thread title

My answer is BOTH.:thumbup:

 

[beechblade]

Both are important, but I'm prepared to sacrifice a few results in the short term for the change in style.

Now the result on Tuesday may have been freak and a bad result but it could also be the best thing that has happened to Gary Speed’s team, they’ll improve on it because other problems they thought may not have been there will have been highlighted to them. If we keep the steady rate of progression then I’m sure that mistakes will be less frequent and the team will only grow in confidence.

As a coach they teach you that mistakes are the best form of education for a player. You have to let mistakes happen at times and then readdress those problems afterwards, of course it’s always better for them to happen in training but you can’t simulate mistakes either, simulating mistakes won’t evolve free thinking of a player. They’ll review those mistakes as a team and ask what could have been done better, the players have been in the game long enough to know what they have done wrong. They’ll train and work on positioning and shape and that should improve, they’ll work on corners and shooting and try and instil confidence in the players upfront, they’ll continue to work on the pass, touch and movement of the players. And if things go the right way in training they’ll get their confidence back. And with a few changes they’ll be bettered prepared for Saturday.

Onwards and upwards.

Up The Blades!!!

 

[travellingblade]

My answer is Both also,

but after 4 games comparing Speed to Blackwell, when definitely the quality of football has improved, and to date Speed as a win ratio of 50%, so again an improvement????

 

[yorkshirecoast]

The result is by far the most important thing for me. I can always enjoy a win, however we play. Ideally I'd like to play good football too - but passing the ball around nicely whilst getting hammered 4-0 at home isn't my idea of fun!

 

[norfolkblade]

Result most importantly, however, we can get results by paying good football (Derby), all we need to do is sort the defence out (Scunny) as that was completely inexcusable.

 

[super_pig]

proper football will bring us results in the long term.. all the most successful outfits play proper football

 

[Eskimo]

I was brought up in the 60s with the idea that the Blades were a cultured footballing side. As a kid I remember an article comparing our and W Hams footballing academy approach to the game which nurtutred young talent, Birchenall, Jones, Badger, Shaw, Wagstaff brothers; Peters, Moore, Hurst etc on lower budgets than Leeds Man City Liverpool etc.. Fine but we got relegated and only got back after a long struggle and the introduction of Hockey as the hard man in midfield.

Two unforgettable glory years in which we won nowt then oblivion for more than a decade until the direct style of Bassett.. We actually started winning got back to the top league and played at Wembley. More oblivion, a success blip with Kendall then Warnock and more direct (sometimes very exciting)football and success eventually which petered out under Robson and eventually Blackie.

Now the back lash. Of course we want both sexy football and results. But the biggest sucess we have had has been with managers that have has a focus on results. The secret of success is constancy to purpose. Under Bassett and Warnock the purpose was results and it worked - and is still working - Look at QPR.

So Id vote for results and style please but if I can't have both settle for results.

 

[super_pig]

>but if I can't have both settle for results.
which is ultimately self defeating.. ok.. now and again we'll achieve promotion and come straight back down again.. it is a short term policy

 

[Eskimo]

Yes thats my point - you win promotion - thats the purpose. . Not a short term policy though. Having done so you aim to consolidate on your success and become an extablished premiership club like Wolves, Wigan, Bolton, WBA Birmingham, Stoke Wigan. We very very narrowly failed.

I look forward very very much to Speedy passing our way to promotion. Not holding my breath though.

 

[Ollessendro]

both.

I don't see why we can't play decent football AND win games. Surely they go hand in hand? It's not about a trade off, or one or the other.

 

[Guesty]

However, Tuesday we lost 4-0 to Scunthorpe, we played some great stuff, on another day could easily have won 4-0 ourselves, and some fans are lambasting the regime and calling it an awful result etc.

Sorry, are you saying it wasn't an awful result?

I don't want us to be the best passing team in the bottom three, that's for damn sure.

 

[Robbie]

Sorry, are you saying it wasn't an awful result?
.

Yes it was, but some people can see past the result.

 

[boo radley]

There seems to be some confusion on here.

When Blackwell was in charge, he had a decent win record (44% he'll tell you) but with awful awful football.

A lot of fans wanted to see 'football' and were happy to see a progression made.

However, Tuesday we lost 4-0 to Scunthorpe, we played some great stuff, on another day could easily have won 4-0 ourselves, and some fans are lambasting the regime and calling it an awful result etc.

Now with the funds that are available (seemingly zilch) and the team that Speed has been left with, what do people want?

Would they rather we have Blackwell back and be comfortable in this league, or what would you want to take a risk and keep Speed in, let him bring some fresh ideas and maybe get a couple of pummelings because of his inexperience?

I like the idea of the latter, I've always been an advocate (whether, watching, playing or managing) that no matter the score, we should always be looking to score goals. Sometimes it will backfire horrendously (a la Tuesday) but sometimes, it will be absolute bliss.

My opinion is that we should be getting behind the team, back through the turnstiles and celebrate a new era I've not felt this positive for a long time.

Great to see you Thread starting again and im with you on all of that ( boo's a big creep)

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Answer to the original post.

I want both. I don't mind waiting a bit for the results to happen.

 

[JohnDenver]

both.

I don't see why we can't play decent football AND win games. Surely they go hand in hand? It's not about a trade off, or one or the other.

Indeed. I need it explaining to me how our passing game led to Scunny scoring 4 goals. Crap defending is crap defending, regardless of whether we pass long or short.

If we played open, Keegan-style footy that'd be fair comment, but I don't believe we do.

 

[raul]

If results don't pick up, it'll only be results that matter anyway. I don't want to be reading "Too good to go down" posts from the likes of Flatulent and Dunc until at least after the clocks go back.

 

[Ollessendro]

Speed can't seem to make his mind up either. Yesterday it was the result, but Tuesday it was perfromance. The previous weekend we had both at Derby. Make yer mind up Gary!?

Something tells me he'll be looking for results at Elland Road and the City Ground. To be honest, at this stage and with the relegation battle looming, i'd take 2 achingly dull, lacking in quality, boring and crap matches if we were to pick up 4 points!!?

 

[shorehamview]

Asking us to choose when we would obviously like both is a little hard, but in the end I think I'll plump for chips please.
[youtube]Ksmb6iwPZYo[/youtube]

 

[SteelCity Blade]

I think we've seen over the last two games the difficulty in marrying these two issues. The Championship is (and always has been) a strange division in the sense that the most stylish and attractive sides seldom win promotion. That's not to say both cant be achieved.....West Brom for one have proved that. But it tends to be those sides who can mix it up best and are up to the physical rigours, that have consistent success at this level.

Another problem of course is that United clearly dont have all the components of a stylish football team. IMO we lack a creative box-to-box midfielder and a left winger. Apart from that though, I dont think we're a million miles away from a reasonable passing side. Even with additions it will take time but its definately something that needs to be addressed.

At the moment, its all about results for me. I was delighted to see how United were using the ball at Derby and in the first half against Scunthorpe but as we have already seen, we're not well drilled enough to keep our shape when it doesnt come off. We simplified things against Portsmoutha and ultimately got the result. It needs to be a slow progression. Practising better habits more and more but not too quickly and hence to the detriment of winning matches.

Patience fellow Blades, patience

 

[Ollessendro]

Asking us to choose when we would obviously like both is a little hard, but in the end I think I'll plump for chips please.
[youtube]Ksmb6iwPZYo[/youtube]

is that cheap as chips mark I or mark II SV???