Our club is inherently broken, but current on-pitch issues are distracting from the bigger picture.

[FriethBlade]

Doesn't matter what you call them DOF chief operating officer, whatever, but we need someone to set a long term strategy. What are we? An up and at em team....sign athletes who can run all day....a possession based team...sign footballers who are comfortable on the ball etc. I know its not that simple but surely having a long term footballing strategy would help.

If we 'accept' that we aren't going to get a sugar daddy who has hundreds of millions to spend then we need to make sure who we appoint as manager and which players are signed fit a long term strategy. Then if we change manager the new one coming in is able to take over with a set of players he can use.

This constant flip flop between styles is killing us as we are wasting money on players who cant play the new managers style of football but are on big 3 year contracts. How many of this summers signings wd have come in if wed not sacked Wilder and appointed a guy who wanted to play a different style of football?

 

[FriethBlade]

I remember seeing a feature on Sunderland before we played them in the final and was surprised at how better structured they were off the pitch.

View attachment 223292View attachment 223293

Yeah they're a bigger club than us but they were in L1 a few years ago

Same for the likes of Birmingham City whose new owners have appointed numerous new executives, both business and football

 

[Carlton Blade]

I remember seeing a feature on Sunderland before we played them in the final and was surprised at how better structured they were off the pitch.

View attachment 223292View attachment 223293

Yeah they're a bigger club than us but they were in L1 a few years ago

It's a basic, modern structure that supports getting the most ROI possible

 

[KMC-1889]

I remember seeing a feature on Sunderland before we played them in the final and was surprised at how better structured they were off the pitch.

View attachment 223292View attachment 223293

Yeah they're a bigger club than us but they were in L1 a few years ago

That really does highlight how much work Bettis, Wilder & Hoyland have to get through, it’s laughable that we consider ourselves a serious club.

This is why Sunderland have made a go of stopping in the premier league and we had two of the most pathetic seasons in history. I’m sick of hearing that ‘it’s always been shit, just accept it’ when there’s absolutely no need too.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

The "Bladey Blade" method, of running harder, working harder, showing more "pashun" than the opponent.

That is exactly what’s lacking from this current group of players…The “Bladey Blade method” is what most people used to call the “bare minimum” for a professional footballer.

 

[Champagneblade]

I can’t see that working
It’s still one man with no authority but all the accountability. No money but a set of magic beans.

SwissBlade had it spot on.
Just like Bournemouth, Brighton and Brentford. They all had sugar daddy levels of investment to burn. Firstly, on a complex and costly recruitment strategy, which got to the Prem initially, and then invested hugely in the infrastructure to sustain their conveyor of talent.

Which bit can’t you see working? I raised 4 points.

Warnock was just an example, to take infrastructure development away from the manager.

But otherwise I do agree that getting an amazing DoF is just as gilt edged as getting an amazing manager. My argument against DoF is that when results turn, who takes the blame? “You bought me shit players and my team underperformed”; the manager is entitled to say.

I just don’t think chasing some unobtainable style with our likely resources is the way to go.

We were good in 3-5-2 and overlapping centre backs. Just make that our thing and recruit to that. As ever it will be down to how well you recruit. But having that unique system as your thing removed one variable and simplifies recruitment.

I’d say Seriki and Burrows are well suited to it. Tanganga could well be a RCB. Maybe Zatterstrom too with Mee in the middle. Gus is an ideal Duffy. Perhaps Campbell and Ings up top. Davies as the Coutts and Arblaster as the Fleck when fit.

 

[Cheeky Blade]

Just out of interest - with Wilder and Hecky, who is the master and who is the disciple?

Dave Gahan?

 

[KMC-1889]

We can’t make ‘our thing’ a formation, that’s what undid Wilder in 2020. Once it gets sussed out your buggered.

The top teams will tweak formations and roles all through the season to gain an edge.

A ‘Sheffield United’ player for me would focus on:

• Height and Build, minimum of 6ft
• prioritise stamina over technical ability.
• high % win rate of ground and Ariel duels.

From that you’ll end up with a core of players that at the very minimum can compete the in the physical battle and create a base for a sprinkle of flair players like N’Diaye/Hamer.

 

[TJ blade]

I wouldn’t mind the Out Run Out Fight Out Play approach if it was a deliberate strategy, but as you right point out over the last 20 years we veered rapidly from style to style with varying degrees of success.

For whatever reason, as a club and a fanbase we’re completely incapable of looking beyond the current season, making any talk of future planning a complete waste of effort.

This season has finished me off, I’ll go and support the team out of habit. £400m has come into the club after three premier league seasons and we have absolutely nowt to show for it and no vision for the future. We’ll plod along between League One & Championship until the next Bassett/Warnock/Wilder falls into our lap and we get a season or two of joy.

It’s the realisation that we won’t be a Brentford, or Fulham, or even a Forest. We’re going to be Bolton, or Stoke, or Blackburn.

As high as Stoke!& Blackburn! Bloody hell mate your optimistic

 

[Maidenhead]

I wouldn’t mind the Out Run Out Fight Out Play approach if it was a deliberate strategy, but as you right point out over the last 20 years we veered rapidly from style to style with varying degrees of success.

For whatever reason, as a club and a fanbase we’re completely incapable of looking beyond the current season, making any talk of future planning a complete waste of effort.

This season has finished me off, I’ll go and support the team out of habit. £400m has come into the club after three premier league seasons and we have absolutely nowt to show for it and no vision for the future. We’ll plod along between League One & Championship until the next Bassett/Warnock/Wilder falls into our lap and we get a season or two of joy.

It’s the realisation that we won’t be a Brentford, or Fulham, or even a Forest. We’re going to be Bolton, or Stoke, or Blackburn.

Out run, we're not fit enough by a distance.

Out fight, We can do that. Just look at all the fines we got last season. Unfortunately more often thannot we didn't get any points for the fight.

Out play, We may, or may not, have the skills in the team, but the organisation and management are so poor that we're never likely to find out.

 

[Lord Eddard Muir]

I've seen various debates of late over certain things we should or shouldn't do. The primary topics being around whether Wilder should remain in place as manager, or if we should cast our net out for someone else, as well as whether we should change to playing 2 forwards.

While there is certainly merit to debating these topics, I think it misses the bigger picture. Which is that we currently look like a club that has zero clue of what it wants to be.

Over the last 15 years, we've made multiple attempts to break away from the pigeonhole we'd established for ourselves over multiple decades prior. The "Bladey Blade" method, of running harder, working harder, showing more "pashun" than the opponent. An approach which has occasionally borne fruit, but since the departure of a certain Mr Warnock, has only delivered success via Wilder and Hecky, a pair you can effectively view as master and disciple.

Now, if we look at the attempts to correct course, it becomes blatantly clear that there has always been a failure to truly commit to the alternate path:

2025: Hire Selles. A man with a significantly different tactical outlook to his predecessor. Club proceeds to recruit the bare minimum, until Selles throws the board under the bus in a press conference. After which we make a number of last ditch signings to bolster the squad. Poor performances, as a result of a combination of the above, plus a lack of uptake on Selles' strategies, result in his early departure. We re-hire Wilder and return to the status quo.

2021: Slav. A man with a significantly different tactical approach to his successor. Club proceeds to make zero recruitment (our only permanent signings were Adam Davies and Adlene Guedioura), and wonder why Slav was unable to get Wilder's many square pegs, to fit into 11 newly-rounded holes. The response is to dismiss Slav, and bring in mini-Wilder, and return to the status quo.

2015: Adkins. A man with a significantly different tactical approach to his successor. A true failure in all regards. We recruited badly, except for the re-signing of Billy Sharp. Adkins' past tactics that brought success at the likes of Scunthorpe and Southampton, were almost entirely absent. The board, in contrast to all other examples here, did actually give him time to turn things around. But it never came. Instead we held out to the end of our worst season in decades.

2013: Weir. A man with a significantly different tactical approach to his successor. The club did a few things right on this one. Brought in staff at Weir's behest. Separated the Assistant Manager role into tactics and fitness. Hired a number of players to be moulded around the centrepiece of Weir's tactic: Kevin MacDonald. Oh wait, what was that? A 200k release clause? Wolves are paying it? Oh, bugger. Well, here's Jose Baxter to make up for it. I know he's a totally different type of player, but you'll make it work, won't you? (Spoiler: He didn't make it work). Weir proceeds to flounder without a midfield maestro to build his team around, and we tumble down the league until he's dismissed, and replaced by Nigel "I need a right back" Clough.

The archaic approach of "Outrun. Outright. Outplay." isn't sustainable. We need a Director of Football. We need the club to have a focused tactical approach, at all levels, to ensure prolonged exposure to one method of playing for senior players, and an easier, less jarring path to the first team for youth prospects. We need a thoroughly defined recruitment strategy. At present, everything feels like we're throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks.

Regardless of where we end up this season, we need to be employing a long-term strategy for the club. We cannot carry on in this manner - making a half-arsed effort to set ourselves up for the future, only to bail on it immediately and go back to what we did before. It might take a bit of suffering to get there, but we're already suffering as it is. At least if we commit to change, the pain might become worth it.

Entirely agree, and the way you've laid this out really does hammer home the similarities in what went wrong with all out worst recent managers. Adkins feels like the outlier, in that the board did pretty much give him everything he asked for but he still ballsed it up. Arguably the attempt to stick with Adkins for the long haul, and the resulting mess that Wilder inherited, cast a long shadow and contributed heavily to the later panic-sackings of Slav and Selles.

 

[Kenilworth]

Isn't Edu (the guy that turned it round post Wenger at Arsenal) the DoF at Forest?

And as for the clubs you mention, they all have a DoF/infrastructure that doesn't leave them tied to one person and the whims of that guy.

Poor argument to be honest...

Not my point. It was that one man in that one position is not going to make a jot of difference. It’s a whole team of people, as others have stated. We haven’t had anywhere near the level of investment required to implement that. However, lots of people just believe that appointing a DOF is a magic wand to change the culture.

Two points from that.
1. It isn’t - for the points raise in my earlier posts on this thread
2. If it does end up going that way are you completely sure that a franchise club is what you want?
Few of them win anything and they are pretty much identikit, so what’s the prize, the end goal? To be a sustainable team in the middle of the Prem?

 

[Kenilworth]

Entirely agree, and the way you've laid this out really does hammer home the similarities in what went wrong with all out worst recent managers. Adkins feels like the outlier, in that the board did pretty much give him everything he asked for but he still ballsed it up. Arguably the attempt to stick with Adkins for the long haul, and the resulting mess that Wilder inherited, cast a long shadow and contributed heavily to the later panic-sackings of Slav and Selles.

The sacking of Slav and Selles were not panic sackings.
Both were useless.
You can argue about wrong man for the wrong time and all that but there was zero fit for this club from the start.
At least Slav had a triumph on his CV - Selles only had a scooter - and a push by foot one at that. It just had an approved UEFA badge on it.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

I wouldn't say we are inherently broken just we had a owner with previously unparalleled amounts of money coming into the club and he went out with very little difference made to the club. Still good news about the premier league mandated media facilities I guess.

Unfortunately the current owners made the idiotic firing of wilder coupled with hiring selles mistake and signed a load of shite that is now going to take years to undo.

 

[Kenilworth]

That really does highlight how much work Bettis, Wilder & Hoyland have to get through, it’s laughable that we consider ourselves a serious club.

This is why Sunderland have made a go of stopping in the premier league and we had two of the most pathetic seasons in history. I’m sick of hearing that ‘it’s always been shit, just accept it’ when there’s absolutely no need too.

Underpinned by a huge wedge of cash, yes.
It’s not just the people and the hierarchy, you have to be able to afford that and sustain it whilst the returns are minimal.
Since we’re always robbing Peter to pay Paul it’ll be a long, long time before we can generate that sort of cash to set up in that way. If it’s not earned on the pitch then it has to be a business Angel/Devil.
We were lucky that the McCabe and the Prince stumbled on Wilder. If not, we wouldn’t be having such a high brow conversation. Those trips into the Prem would not have happened. We’d be like Preston or Bristol City, perennial championship with maybe the odd journey to L1.

 

[SwissBlade]

That last bit is the answer, Swiss. Spot on.

I’d have given you a like but you made excuses for Adkins, Slav and Selles.

Ha ha I think in terms of Adkins and Slav, they came with a good reputation, and I think most fans would have nodded to them being a positive change for the club. Whilst I didn’t really think that Adkins suited us with his bullshit and I think was always going to get found out, Slav should’ve been given the resources to get the team he wanted and to get the players playing how he wanted. We just didn’t have an owner to give him the money he needed to make it happen. In hindsight, I think it was a turning point and an experience for the Prince to really understand what we had at the club before Slav.

As for Selles, its true that the owners didn’t back him until it was far too late, but he was also not the right man for the job in the first place, technically.

I can’t see that working
It’s still one man with no authority but all the accountability. No money but a set of magic beans.

SwissBlade had it spot on.
Just like Bournemouth, Brighton and Brentford. They all had sugar daddy levels of investment to burn. Firstly, on a complex and costly recruitment strategy, which got to the Prem initially, and then invested hugely in the infrastructure to sustain their conveyor of talent.

The three examples that you use are the ones I was thinking of. The key is ‘sustain’ as we have often unearthed or developed talent, sold them on for a healthy profit, but struggled to then replace them in the system we’ve had.

I think there was a time in that COVID season before the lockdowns happened where we had a very exciting and young side, the signings we were making were in addition to the quality that we had, but we couldn’t just bring in the next level of Fleck, Sharp, O’Connell or Bashams that we needed. The problem post Wilder at that time was that a) we’d been relegated, b) players contracts were being allowed to be run down and c) we weren’t replacing the ageing players before it was too late. At that time, we didn’t need a DoF as such, but we needed funds for future players and / or developing the Academy to the next level and / or developing recruitment. We needed to expand and build on what we had at that time.

The interesting part to all of this is that it was not by accident that the club was already landing on players like JoC, Norwood, Dean Henderson, Sander Berge, McBurnie, Brewster, Mousset, Ndiaye, Anel and Gibbs White. They didn’t all work out perfectly but I think we can see why we signed all of them. Injuries and some changes in circumstances really impacted some of these signings whether loans or permanents.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Doesn't matter what you call them DOF chief operating officer, whatever, but we need someone to set a long term strategy. What are we? An up and at em team....sign athletes who can run all day....a possession based team...sign footballers who are comfortable on the ball etc. I know its not that simple but surely having a long term footballing strategy would help.

If we 'accept' that we aren't going to get a sugar daddy who has hundreds of millions to spend then we need to make sure who we appoint as manager and which players are signed fit a long term strategy. Then if we change manager the new one coming in is able to take over with a set of players he can use.

This constant flip flop between styles is killing us as we are wasting money on players who cant play the new managers style of football but are on big 3 year contracts. How many of this summers signings wd have come in if wed not sacked Wilder and appointed a guy who wanted to play a different style of football?

The owners are expert business men, they will have a short term, medium term and long term strategy.
The appointment of Selles proves this but they wanted to run before they could walk…..introduced change too quickly and it backfired
But thankfully they’ve realised their error and took the brave decision to going back to the system they know works in the short term.
However as mentioned its like putting a sticky plaster over a wound…..it deals with the situation for this season but doesn’t really lay foundations for the future.

To be honest a lot of the problem is fan expectation and pressure.
People talk about medium and long term but I’d say over 80% couldn’t care about our long term future….they only care about this season (short termism).

So many of our fans say they don’t care about our style of play, don’t care about entertainment…for them it’s win at any cost.
It’s more difficult to build for the future with that fan mentality?

Think part of the problem in Sheffield is Unitedites (and most Sheffielders in general) are generally a negative doom and gloom bunch who hate ambition and change.
And it doesn’t help when you have plenty of Wednesday fans pretending to be Blades trying to turn anything positive into a negative.

 

[Kenilworth]

Ha ha I think in terms of Adkins and Slav, they came with a good reputation, and I think most fans would have nodded to them being a positive change for the club. Whilst I didn’t really think that Adkins suited us with his bullshit and I think was always going to get found out, Slav should’ve been given the resources to get the team he wanted and to get the players playing how he wanted. We just didn’t have an owner to give him the money he needed to make it happen. In hindsight, I think it was a turning point and an experience for the Prince to really understand what we had at the club before Slav.

As for Selles, its true that the owners didn’t back him until it was far too late, but he was also not the right man for the job in the first place, technically.


The three examples that you use are the ones I was thinking of. The key is ‘sustain’ as we have often unearthed or developed talent, sold them on for a healthy profit, but struggled to then replace them in the system we’ve had.

I think there was a time in that COVID season before the lockdowns happened where we had a very exciting and young side, the signings we were making were in addition to the quality that we had, but we couldn’t just bring in the next level of Fleck, Sharp, O’Connell or Bashams that we needed. The problem post Wilder at that time was that a) we’d been relegated, b) players contracts were being allowed to be run down and c) we weren’t replacing the ageing players before it was too late. At that time, we didn’t need a DoF as such, but we needed funds for future players and / or developing the Academy to the next level and / or developing recruitment. We needed to expand and build on what we had at that time.

The interesting part to all of this is that it was not by accident that the club was already landing on players like JoC, Norwood, Dean Henderson, Sander Berge, McBurnie, Brewster, Mousset, Ndiaye, Anel and Gibbs White. They didn’t all work out perfectly but I think we can see why we signed all of them. Injuries and some changes in circumstances really impacted some of these signings whether loans or permanents.

I love you Swiss

 

[Gavlar]

A very helpful debate this one. Thanks all for your contributions and the OP for posting in the first place.

Not easy to change a culture at a club. For me I am reading a fascinating book called States of play about the way money has affected football. It's very enlightening and sad depending on your POV. I am increasingly become fed up with modern football and it's sports washing, idiot owners, greed and ruining of lower league clubs.

I will of course still support the blades, but the premier league is less about football and more about the rich getting richer as the biggest religion in the uk football rolls on lining the pockets of Murdoch et al. Twas ever thus i'm sure but still.

I far more enjoy watching my lad play in front of 6 people and a dog on a satdi, or my lass on a Sunday. Football has long lost it's soul and by the world cup in the states next year hosted by the orange faced twat, it will likely look even worse.

 

[SwissBlade]

The owners are expert business men, they will have a short term, medium term and long term strategy.
The appointment of Selles proves this but they wanted to run before they could walk…..introduced change too quickly and it backfired
But thankfully they’ve realised their error and took the brave decision to going back to the system they know works in the short term.
However as mentioned its like putting a sticky plaster over a wound…..it deals with the situation for this season but doesn’t really lay foundations for the future.

To be honest a lot of the problem is fan expectation and pressure.
People talk about medium and long term but I’d say over 80% couldn’t care about our long term future….they only care about this season (short termism).

So many of our fans say they don’t care about our style of play, don’t care about entertainment…for them it’s win at any cost.
It’s more difficult to build for the future with that fan mentality?

Think part of the problem in Sheffield is Unitedites (and most Sheffielders in general) are generally a negative doom and gloom bunch who hate ambition and change.
And it doesn’t help when you have plenty of Wednesday fans pretending to be Blades trying to turn anything positive into a negative.

You assume, rightly that the owners have a short, med and long strategy, but what is it? They haven’t communicated anything concrete in terms of targets, strategy or, well, pretty much anything tangible since they arrived.

The Selles part makes me wonder if they have any strategy at all. But lets run through things briefly…

• Came in after Aug 2024 Transfer window in Autumn.
• Threw some cash about for the right now in Jan, loans and a £10m in form striker as we were top of the league.
• Signed some players on AI recommendation from Bulgaria
• Gave the manager a 5 year deal.
• Failed to make the Premier League, sacked the manager on a 5 year deal within months
• Appoint a manager with zero promotion experience, but they like his new culture
• Sign some AI recommended players from Bulgaria and other places.
• Sell some of the AI recommended players
• Fail to back the new culture that they loved until we’d lost a few games
• Back the new culture manager by spending “big” and then losing some more
• New culture isn’t for us, so they sack him.
• Turns out they liked the old culture after all and bring back the old manager as its cheaper than paying up the 5 years on his deal that they gave him when they liked his culture..

I don’t think there is a problem with fan expectation or pressure, we’re quite a tolerant bunch. Bed wetters aside, we can be patient.

But your last statement is a contradiction. You way that there is pressure to win but we’re negative.

I do agree that we’re a negative bunch in Sheffield, generally. I think we do settle for second best at times, but we’re also not daft and support success. I don’t think it’s a fan problem, its certainly an owner problem of their own making right now.

 

[Blade56]

I love you Swiss

Obviously never tried to get a refund on one of his Slav/Adkins 50/50 scarfs

 

[ATL Recs]

Saying that the club is broken because of a certain style of play and failures with previous managers because we don’t have a DoF doesn’t really have any basis other than to tenuously link this to needing a DoF. Bringing in a DoF wouldn’t “fix” the club alone, if indeed the club is broken.

I think as much as looking at the failures and why they haven’t worked, we also need to look at successes and why they have.

The approach of “Outrun. Outfight. Outplay” isn’t the strategy, it’s the minimum standards expected at this club and is also not unique to Sheffield United or just Wilder. Under Bassett, Warnock, Wilder and Hecky we have had sides that overachieve.

We have failed at other times as we haven’t had the resources or the time to implement the changes needed to play another way, the only managers that got the resources (to an extent) were Kendall / Spackman and of course Robson, but the resources did . Kendall was so close, Spackman and Robson didn’t have time, Adkins had time but not resources, Slav had no time and no resources and the same for Selles, although I think he was a very different concept in that he was so inexperienced for the level we’re at.

The problem that you’ve failed to acknowledge is that in order to achieve this great plan, we need the resources which can only come from a sustained period in the Premier League or a Sugar daddy.

I think his point was that 400 million plus due to our 3 seasons in the top flight wasn't really used to lay any foundations ( resources) for change and development

 

[David Wheatley]

I've seen various debates of late over certain things we should or shouldn't do. The primary topics being around whether Wilder should remain in place as manager, or if we should cast our net out for someone else, as well as whether we should change to playing 2 forwards.

While there is certainly merit to debating these topics, I think it misses the bigger picture. Which is that we currently look like a club that has zero clue of what it wants to be.

Over the last 15 years, we've made multiple attempts to break away from the pigeonhole we'd established for ourselves over multiple decades prior. The "Bladey Blade" method, of running harder, working harder, showing more "pashun" than the opponent. An approach which has occasionally borne fruit, but since the departure of a certain Mr Warnock, has only delivered success via Wilder and Hecky, a pair you can effectively view as master and disciple.

Now, if we look at the attempts to correct course, it becomes blatantly clear that there has always been a failure to truly commit to the alternate path:

2025: Hire Selles. A man with a significantly different tactical outlook to his predecessor. Club proceeds to recruit the bare minimum, until Selles throws the board under the bus in a press conference. After which we make a number of last ditch signings to bolster the squad. Poor performances, as a result of a combination of the above, plus a lack of uptake on Selles' strategies, result in his early departure. We re-hire Wilder and return to the status quo.

2021: Slav. A man with a significantly different tactical approach to his successor. Club proceeds to make zero recruitment (our only permanent signings were Adam Davies and Adlene Guedioura), and wonder why Slav was unable to get Wilder's many square pegs, to fit into 11 newly-rounded holes. The response is to dismiss Slav, and bring in mini-Wilder, and return to the status quo.

2015: Adkins. A man with a significantly different tactical approach to his successor. A true failure in all regards. We recruited badly, except for the re-signing of Billy Sharp. Adkins' past tactics that brought success at the likes of Scunthorpe and Southampton, were almost entirely absent. The board, in contrast to all other examples here, did actually give him time to turn things around. But it never came. Instead we held out to the end of our worst season in decades.

2013: Weir. A man with a significantly different tactical approach to his successor. The club did a few things right on this one. Brought in staff at Weir's behest. Separated the Assistant Manager role into tactics and fitness. Hired a number of players to be moulded around the centrepiece of Weir's tactic: Kevin MacDonald. Oh wait, what was that? A 200k release clause? Wolves are paying it? Oh, bugger. Well, here's Jose Baxter to make up for it. I know he's a totally different type of player, but you'll make it work, won't you? (Spoiler: He didn't make it work). Weir proceeds to flounder without a midfield maestro to build his team around, and we tumble down the league until he's dismissed, and replaced by Nigel "I need a right back" Clough.

The archaic approach of "Outrun. Outright. Outplay." isn't sustainable. We need a Director of Football. We need the club to have a focused tactical approach, at all levels, to ensure prolonged exposure to one method of playing for senior players, and an easier, less jarring path to the first team for youth prospects. We need a thoroughly defined recruitment strategy. At present, everything feels like we're throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks.

Regardless of where we end up this season, we need to be employing a long-term strategy for the club. We cannot carry on in this manner - making a half-arsed effort to set ourselves up for the future, only to bail on it immediately and go back to what we did before. It might take a bit of suffering to get there, but we're already suffering as it is. At least if we commit to change, the pain might become worth it.

Totally agree

 

[dexter101]

is our club broken? really?

This season isn't good, but there are clubs that are in a far worse place than us off the field.

I know it feels like our time in the PL hasn't left the club in a better place but I am not sure there are many sides with a similar pattern of promotion etc who are in a better place than us (without significant outside financial input)?

Our transfer business leaves a lot to be desired but we have signed some half decent, experienced players (Mee and Ings).

I am not meaning to sound all clappy, as I do think theres work to be done, but when those across the city aren't getting paid, don't own their stadium (which is also falling down) and haven't been in the top flight for a good while, I don't think we need to be thinking our current state is the end of the world.

 

[SwissBlade]

I think his point was that 400 million plus due to our 3 seasons in the top flight wasn't really used to lay any foundations ( resources) for change and development

I think that has covered many other seasons out of the PL and push towards the premier league.

Its harsh to say that we haven't laid any foundations when you look around at other clubs locally who've not had Premier League money

 

[Badger Blade]

It boils down to me, to an infrastructure thing and investing properly in getting people who can make whatever it is they want, to work.

Based on just handing the job to Selles, no due diligence or interview process seemed to exist and if that's the case with the bloke meant to be in charge of the team, heaven knows what else goes on. Fair enough if we handed the job to Mourinho but not to a bloke with a chequered at best track record of results.

Having people who have an understanding of football at the top would be a start but we can't just inject that into the brains of the owners so from that side, what'll be will be. It goes back to having someone as a competent day to day figurehead to run the show on their behalf, especially when it comes to on-field matters, not just Bettis, CWAK, Prestridge, the kit man, groundsman and the tea lady.

We have an identity and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. It's how we choose to embody that and exploit it to its best. If we want to have a team of up and at em shithouses, then recruit the best ones available using the best resources to find them. Tony Pulis' Stoke team are the embodiment to me of working out who you've got already, what they're good at and building on it.

Taking Brentford and Brighton as key examples, I'd be pretty certain that they have extensive scouting networks around the world and some of the best data analysts and sports scientists money can buy. If we want to be where they are, we'd have to pay money for it and perhaps not expect any return from it immediately.

Every season, Brentford seem to lose their main men, only to continue to unearth more and more gems to keep them going, make a huge profit then they go and get the next one.

Looking not too far back into the past, these clubs were on the bones of their arses, now look where they are. We've had some decent foreign players in the recent past and the Wilder team we know and love from his first stint were mostly signed from the lower leagues. loanees or were free agents. Its how you blend it all together rather than just having one approach and relying solely on it.

At the end of the day, as much as we might try, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

[UddersBlade]

Hindsight is wonderful….. but if we were doing it all again and had just been promoted to the Premier League (2019/20)….. some money should have been set aside then to build the new training ground & Cat 1 academy. Of course we all got excited about wanting to invest to try & establish ourselves in the Premier League - but the Prince did not have deep enough pockets to do that & at that time he was not strong enough to say no to Wilder re…. Big transfers.

As I say - hindsight is easy - but history will show we blew the chance to lay down that really game changing infrastructure. Now - apart from some stadium upgrades our legacy from that £400 million + is very poor.

 

[Houston_Blade]

It’s a bit strong to suggest we’re ’broken’. We are what we are!

I was hoping that there was a possibility that we would be able to elevate ourselves to compete at a higher level. It seems though that we can’t do this and therefore we’ll stick to what we know and leave other clubs to try and take the next step.

 

[reedy63]

I dont think the club is broken. However, the sacking of Chris Wilder and then appointing Selles was a huge mistake. Chris Wilder's return was the only option the new owners could take; some may think they were in a panic, while others may think differently. I think they made the correct decision, but I dont understand why the players lost confidence. Was it because we lost the playoff final, or was it because of Selles' poor tactics, which left the players confused? Since Wilder came back, the performances have been better. But apart from Oxford, we lost all the other games. Things dont go your way when you're at the bottom of the league. bad luck, etc..The owners of our club are multi-millionaires. Hopefully, by the start of the new year, we will be in a better position in the Championship than we are now. They told us Chris Wilder will get us up to the Premier League. They will have to achieve this by spending a lot of money, a lot of money that no other board has spent in our lifetime. hundreds of millions of pounds. The question is, will they? Time will tell. I would love it to happen. One of the biggest cities in England, we need this football club to establish itself in the Premier League.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Ha ha I think in terms of Adkins and Slav, they came with a good reputation, and I think most fans would have nodded to them being a positive change for the club. Whilst I didn’t really think that Adkins suited us with his bullshit and I think was always going to get found out, Slav should’ve been given the resources to get the team he wanted and to get the players playing how he wanted. We just didn’t have an owner to give him the money he needed to make it happen. In hindsight, I think it was a turning point and an experience for the Prince to really understand what we had at the club before Slav.

As for Selles, its true that the owners didn’t back him until it was far too late, but he was also not the right man for the job in the first place, technically.


The three examples that you use are the ones I was thinking of. The key is ‘sustain’ as we have often unearthed or developed talent, sold them on for a healthy profit, but struggled to then replace them in the system we’ve had.

I think there was a time in that COVID season before the lockdowns happened where we had a very exciting and young side, the signings we were making were in addition to the quality that we had, but we couldn’t just bring in the next level of Fleck, Sharp, O’Connell or Bashams that we needed. The problem post Wilder at that time was that a) we’d been relegated, b) players contracts were being allowed to be run down and c) we weren’t replacing the ageing players before it was too late. At that time, we didn’t need a DoF as such, but we needed funds for future players and / or developing the Academy to the next level and / or developing recruitment. We needed to expand and build on what we had at that time.

The interesting part to all of this is that it was not by accident that the club was already landing on players like JoC, Norwood, Dean Henderson, Sander Berge, McBurnie, Brewster, Mousset, Ndiaye, Anel and Gibbs White. They didn’t all work out perfectly but I think we can see why we signed all of them. Injuries and some changes in circumstances really impacted some of these signings whether loans or permanents.

The problem being, as the demands on Wilder and everyone grew as the team moved up the pyramid, the club did nothing to alleviate that burden and allow the manager to focus on 1st team performance