Is this really our only option...?

[PrestwichBlade]

It was absolutely devastating to double the pigs and then rub their snouts in it on their own patch. Let's all pray it doesn't happen again so protect the delicate sensibilities of some.

Oh hi again. Quite happy beating Wednesday, but let's be right, he fucking droned on a bit didn't he?

 

[Bladeloyal]

It would be refreshing for him to show some humility from the start.

Admit that we fucked up spectacularly at the back end of last season ( even taking into account Burnley and Leeds’ form)

Admit that we were negative for large parts of last season.

Admit that he got it wrong in the second half / last 20 mins of the play off final and even further got it wrong at the end of the match when he disappeared down then tunnel straightaway.

Might go some way to bringing some of the nay sayers on board and install a bit more unity amongst the fans.

Like many others have said, we need a structure in place that supports succession and progression in team management.

I'd say Chris don't show any signs of weakness and be your self

 

[nopigfansintown]

Oh hi again. Quite happy beating Wednesday, but let's be right, he fucking droned on a bit didn't he?

It was sensational. Every word true. My phone has exploded with crying pigs today which says it all.

 

[PrestwichBlade]

It was sensational. Every word true. My phone has exploded with crying pigs today which says it all.

You're easily pleased aren't you?!

 

[TJ blade]

Just a thought
If wilder comes back and he's not a success the third time around will it be
1 - because Selles brought in the players,?
2 - will there be calls for Hecky to return?
3 - will wilder fans accept that, that's enough we need someone new entirely.?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3.No.

 

[William Large]

I'd say Chris don't show any signs of weakness and be your self

I get what you are saying but recognising mistakes is not a weakness. Quite the opposite.

 

[PrestwichBlade]

It was sensational. Every word true. My phone has exploded with crying pigs today which says it all.

In all honesty, yeah I get it's funny, and it's never a bad thing winding that lot up, but honestly, I'd prefer he just kept focus and not get embroiled with all this shit, get the job done at end of the season, then do your gloating and celebrating.

 

[nopigfansintown]

I'd say Chris don't show any signs of weakness and be your self

It's really strange this desire to see a manager abase himself in front of the players he's leading. No top manager ever gives their players excuses, especially in public. Have these people never studied football management at all? Wilder or any manager needs to relay instructions to the players and present the image that he and his staff are always right just like Ferguson, Mourinho, Klopp, Shankly, Clough, Stein, Wenger, Guardiola etc etc etc. The last things that are needed from a manager are humility and no ego.

 

[nopigfansintown]

You're easily pleased aren't you?!

If a derby double is "easily pleased" then yes I find it pleasing. Its actually an incontrovertible fact that a derby double is a huge thing in Sheffield football for either side. It always has been since the very beginning. You must've been buzzing when we got doubled and piped to promotion by the pigs

 

[William Large]

It's really strange this desire to see a manager abase himself in front of the players he's leading. No top manager ever gives their players excuses, especially in public. Have these people never studied football management at all? Wilder or any manager needs to relay instructions to the players and present the image that he and his staff are always right just like Ferguson, Mourinho, Klopp, Shankly, Clough, Stein, Wenger, Guardiola etc etc etc. The last things that are needed from a manager are humility and no ego.

Not sure that admitting you made some mistakes is the same as abasing himself.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Not sure that admitting you made some mistakes is the same as abasing himself.

He's never claimed to be perfect or the best manager in the world. If people want him coming out admitting every dropped point is his fault they're living in cloud cuckoo land. He has to command authority, give players zero excuses for results and get by in from everyone. The book stops with him so saying "I made the wrong sub today" is utterly meaningless. It's a very strange recent Bladey fetish. Even stranger when they've just watched the same players walk all over the previous manager who lacked the basic qualities needed to lead (the ones Wilder has that they're criticising)..

 

[PrestwichBlade]

If a derby double is "easily pleased" then yes I find it pleasing. Its actually an incontrovertible fact that a derby double is a huge thing in Sheffield football for either side. It always has been since the very beginning. You must've been buzzing when we got doubled and piped to promotion by the pigs

You know full well that's not what I was referring to

 

[jt64]

Someone is going to have to explain to me what has changed with how the owners want the structure of football operations at the club in the past few months which changed Wilder from incompatible in June and the first name they run to now

 

[nopigfansintown]

You know full well that's not what I was referring to

So it's not being easily pleased and us a huge thing for a common or garden Sheffield United fan. Glad we agree.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Someone is going to have to explain to me what has changed with how the owners want the structure of football operations at the club in the past few months which changed Wilder from incompatible in June and the first name they run to now

There's zero evidence that anything changed in the running if the club post Wilder, or that he was sacked based on a desire for a structure he wouldn't accept. There's also zero evidence that they sacked him based on results last season. There's a tidbit in the statement today that suggests the sacking was due to the style of play.

 

[PrestwichBlade]

So it's not being easily pleased and us a huge thing for a common or garden Sheffield United fan. Glad we agree.

I mean, you started off talking about the hour long monologue, which is what I was referring to and which you referred to as 'sensational' and now you've flexed to beating Wednesday in derby games, which I've never said I'm not pleased about, but you crack on

 

[KMC-1889]

Someone is going to have to explain to me what has changed with how the owners want the structure of football operations at the club in the past few months which changed Wilder from incompatible in June and the first name they run to now

He’s only got the job because they’re still paying him and it gets the fans off their back. If it works they look like heroes and it goes wrong the noisy fans will give them more time and if it still doesn’t work they can say ‘well we tried what you asked for an it didn’t work’.

It really, really has to work otherwise the club is going to end more divided than it’s ever been.

 

[William Large]

He's never claimed to be perfect or the best manager in the world. If people want him coming out admitting every dropped point is his fault they're living in cloud cuckoo land. He has to command authority, give players zero excuses for results and get by in from everyone. The book stops with him so saying "I made the wrong sub today" is utterly meaningless. It's a very strange recent Bladey fetish. Even stranger when they've just watched the same players walk all over the previous manager who lacked the basic qualities needed to lead (the ones Wilder has that they're criticising)..

Not quite what I meant to be honest.

 

[@thelane]

A lot of what I'm about to say has probably been picked up in other threads, but I don't know that there's one that really captures it all.
Ruben Selles has clearly been a disastrous appointment. I think it was well-intentioned, with an eye to the future, but one that hasn't worked out. Whilst Selles himself was probably out of his depth, his appointment was only one part of a series of changes that needed to be made, in relation to overall strategy, management and coaching structure, recruitment etc. That none of the other changes happened, probably meant that, whomever the coach was, they'd have struggled, to a greater or lesser degree. I was a supporter of moving on from Wilder; as was said on the late, lamented Bladespod, the new approach had a higher ceiling, but also perhaps a lower floor. Sadly, it's the latter of those two predictions which has come to pass. Doesn't necessarily mean that the vision was wrong; however, clearly, the strategy and execution underpinning it was deeply flawed.

So, Selles' position became untenable and he was dismissed. But is going back to Wilder really the best we can do? I have mixed feelings on this. I think that it's unquestionably the safest thing we can do. He's only been out of the building for five minutes, so will be able to pick up where he left off. He does seem to be able to inspire a team (though interestingly, it only seems to work with United, as his other body of work is underwhelming), and I think that the threat of relegation is eliminated by his return.

But...
Really? Wilder? Is he really the best possible option for the club? Is there really no way to move on? People wax lyrical about how he "gets" the club, how he's "one of our own" and all that tosh, when none of that seems to matter when we're talking about professional players, paid to do a job to the best of their ability. What does it even mean, to "get" the club? What makes SUFC apparently uniquely ungettable by other managers, coaches or owners? I'm genuinely curious. I understand that Wilder has a special place in the club's history, and that he's been canonised by an appreciable proportion of the fanbase. But, sooner or later, for one reason or another, he'll have to move on. What then? I've seen, in these threads, Billy Sharp and Chris Basham cited as possible replacements. Again: really? Is Bladey-bladeness in a coach all we can reasonably aspire to? These are club legends - but with zero coaching experience. On paper at least, Selles would be a better hire!

Like I said, I think Wilder will get us out of this mess. But as fans of a club that will endure long after Wilder, we should be looking for evidence of the next step and the one after that. We need a club and a process that is not in thrall to one man. Everyone cites Brighton as the model for a well run club. Their managers and players are regularly picked off... and it doesn't matter, because they have underlying strategy and clarity of purpose. I very much hope that one thing that comes out of this debacle is that a deeply experienced football director (not CW! That would have echoes of Putin oscillating between president and PM) is appointed, who will figure out what we want to be, what we need to get there - and then start working through it.

Is

A lot of what I'm about to say has probably been picked up in other threads, but I don't know that there's one that really captures it all.
Ruben Selles has clearly been a disastrous appointment. I think it was well-intentioned, with an eye to the future, but one that hasn't worked out. Whilst Selles himself was probably out of his depth, his appointment was only one part of a series of changes that needed to be made, in relation to overall strategy, management and coaching structure, recruitment etc. That none of the other changes happened, probably meant that, whomever the coach was, they'd have struggled, to a greater or lesser degree. I was a supporter of moving on from Wilder; as was said on the late, lamented Bladespod, the new approach had a higher ceiling, but also perhaps a lower floor. Sadly, it's the latter of those two predictions which has come to pass. Doesn't necessarily mean that the vision was wrong; however, clearly, the strategy and execution underpinning it was deeply flawed.

So, Selles' position became untenable and he was dismissed. But is going back to Wilder really the best we can do? I have mixed feelings on this. I think that it's unquestionably the safest thing we can do. He's only been out of the building for five minutes, so will be able to pick up where he left off. He does seem to be able to inspire a team (though interestingly, it only seems to work with United, as his other body of work is underwhelming), and I think that the threat of relegation is eliminated by his return.

But...
Really? Wilder? Is he really the best possible option for the club? Is there really no way to move on? People wax lyrical about how he "gets" the club, how he's "one of our own" and all that tosh, when none of that seems to matter when we're talking about professional players, paid to do a job to the best of their ability. What does it even mean, to "get" the club? What makes SUFC apparently uniquely ungettable by other managers, coaches or owners? I'm genuinely curious. I understand that Wilder has a special place in the club's history, and that he's been canonised by an appreciable proportion of the fanbase. But, sooner or later, for one reason or another, he'll have to move on. What then? I've seen, in these threads, Billy Sharp and Chris Basham cited as possible replacements. Again: really? Is Bladey-bladeness in a coach all we can reasonably aspire to? These are club legends - but with zero coaching experience. On paper at least, Selles would be a better hire!

Like I said, I think Wilder will get us out of this mess. But as fans of a club that will endure long after Wilder, we should be looking for evidence of the next step and the one after that. We need a club and a process that is not in thrall to one man. Everyone cites Brighton as the model for a well run club. Their managers and players are regularly picked off... and it doesn't matter, because they have underlying strategy and clarity of purpose. I very much hope that one thing that comes out of this debacle is that a deeply experienced football director (not CW! That would have echoes of Putin oscillating between president and PM) is appointed, who will figure out what we want to be, what we need to get there - and then start working through it.

in answer to your post title / question…..well Yes!

 

[SwissBlade]

You don’t expect them to have learned any lessons from it then?

I love this form of debate….

Do you?

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

A lot of what I'm about to say has probably been picked up in other threads, but I don't know that there's one that really captures it all.
Ruben Selles has clearly been a disastrous appointment. I think it was well-intentioned, with an eye to the future, but one that hasn't worked out. Whilst Selles himself was probably out of his depth, his appointment was only one part of a series of changes that needed to be made, in relation to overall strategy, management and coaching structure, recruitment etc. That none of the other changes happened, probably meant that, whomever the coach was, they'd have struggled, to a greater or lesser degree. I was a supporter of moving on from Wilder; as was said on the late, lamented Bladespod, the new approach had a higher ceiling, but also perhaps a lower floor. Sadly, it's the latter of those two predictions which has come to pass. Doesn't necessarily mean that the vision was wrong; however, clearly, the strategy and execution underpinning it was deeply flawed.

So, Selles' position became untenable and he was dismissed. But is going back to Wilder really the best we can do? I have mixed feelings on this. I think that it's unquestionably the safest thing we can do. He's only been out of the building for five minutes, so will be able to pick up where he left off. He does seem to be able to inspire a team (though interestingly, it only seems to work with United, as his other body of work is underwhelming), and I think that the threat of relegation is eliminated by his return.

But...
Really? Wilder? Is he really the best possible option for the club? Is there really no way to move on? People wax lyrical about how he "gets" the club, how he's "one of our own" and all that tosh, when none of that seems to matter when we're talking about professional players, paid to do a job to the best of their ability. What does it even mean, to "get" the club? What makes SUFC apparently uniquely ungettable by other managers, coaches or owners? I'm genuinely curious. I understand that Wilder has a special place in the club's history, and that he's been canonised by an appreciable proportion of the fanbase. But, sooner or later, for one reason or another, he'll have to move on. What then? I've seen, in these threads, Billy Sharp and Chris Basham cited as possible replacements. Again: really? Is Bladey-bladeness in a coach all we can reasonably aspire to? These are club legends - but with zero coaching experience. On paper at least, Selles would be a better hire!

Like I said, I think Wilder will get us out of this mess. But as fans of a club that will endure long after Wilder, we should be looking for evidence of the next step and the one after that. We need a club and a process that is not in thrall to one man. Everyone cites Brighton as the model for a well run club. Their managers and players are regularly picked off... and it doesn't matter, because they have underlying strategy and clarity of purpose. I very much hope that one thing that comes out of this debacle is that a deeply experienced football director (not CW! That would have echoes of Putin oscillating between president and PM) is appointed, who will figure out what we want to be, what we need to get there - and then start working through it.

COH got shut of The Incredible Sulk, took two steps forward, stepped in some dog shit (appointing a coach when a manager was required) and have decided rather than cleaning their shoes properly they've scraped out as much as they could with a twig and defaulted to Mr. Mardyarse.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I love this form of debate….

Do you?

Well it appears that they have.