Neal Maupay

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NewBee said:
Assuming they really want them both, do you think Sheff U are able to go up to £35m (maybe more) for Maupay and McBurnie?

Genuine question.
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Yes, Wilder wants two strikers . I haven't seen any plausible links to any alternatives.Wilder uses the club's money like it's his own. He could have 200 million and would still be driving a hard bargain.We finished the last summer window with a lot of money left in the pot when we failed to get Freeman and Waghorn for acceptable packages. This scenario is no different.
 
nopigfansintown said:
Yes, [Sheff U are able to go up to £35m (maybe more)] Wilder wants two strikers . I haven't seen any plausible links to any alternatives.Wilder uses the club's money like it's his own. He could have 200 million and would still be driving a hard bargain.We finished the last summer window with a lot of money left in the pot when we failed to get Freeman and Waghorn for acceptable packages. This scenario is no different.
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Maybe I'm misreading, but isn't that a bit contradictory?

That is, you could come up with the likely sum needed; you know BFC (at least) won't deviate from their asking price; and you need two strikers as you say yourself.

I accept that CW will never willingly pay over the odds for a player, but this is not some Arab bazaar where you can spend all day haggling. Rather he must by now know BFC's asking price, and have a v.good idea of Swansea's.

So why not get it done (at least one of them), or accept that it's not going to happen and move on to other candidates?
 
NewBee said:
Assuming they really want them both, do you think Sheff U are able to go up to £35m (maybe more) for Maupay and McBurnie?

Genuine question.
Click to expand...

Well, we’re clearly able to, given a minimum £100m windfall. Whether we should is another matter. It’s a gamble. All recruitment is but our management team, not least chief scout Paul Mitchell, know footballers inside-out. Not just talent, but character and attitude too.

My own view is that given the age and potential of these two, I would definitely pay that sort of money, but inclusive of significant, performance-related bolt-ons. If it secures another £100m it’s self-financing and a lot more. I really don’t see better value for money out there.

We were founder members of the Premier League. We are not an out of the blue novelty item like Bournemouth. We have massive potential. We’re a bigger club than about half those in the existing premier league.

This is a golden opportunity to establish ourselves amongst the elite. We must not squander it.
 
NewBee said:
Maybe I'm misreading, but isn't that a bit contradictory?

That is, you could come up with the likely sum needed; you know BFC (at least) won't deviate from their asking price; and you need two strikers as you say yourself.

I accept that CW will never willingly pay over the odds for a player, but this is not some Arab bazaar where you can spend all day haggling. Rather he must by now know BFC's asking price, and have a v.good idea of Swansea's.

So why not get it done (at least one of them), or accept that it's not going to happen and move on to other candidates?
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Hel'll be looking at a whole host of factors in his pricing of these two individuals, the return on investment probably being the most important. That is: whether the players are likely to keep us up, and what their future value will be notwithstanding our league status. He'll have assessed the potential of the possible incomings and what he thinks they'll be worth this time next year. I'm in little doubt that Wilder will have a options B, C and D but he's hardly going to enact them when we are still very early in the negotiating stage. There'll be a limit that he wont pay over, and as we've seen several times already - that's when he'll move on. I know Wilder wants two strikers (he's said as much) but I can see a scenario in which we get one, and bring in an inside forward or another number ten if that's where the value is. Our set up is pretty flexible, andone of our goals is to future proof the squad. If we go down, we go down with an increased asset base of capable championship players with high resale values, plus the parachute payments.
 
I'd be interested to know who else Chris is considering. Really like the Robinson signing in many levels - potential, below radar bacause of the injury, if not for that he could have been one of the top scorers, good age, knows the Irish lads, all speak well of him.

I can see the following happening to be honest:

Above 15m Chris sees it as not good value.
Maupay goes to West Ham. I mentioned this was a danger in a thread of Bruce leaving being a possible issue, if West Ham fail to get Maxi Lopez. They did. Easy move for him. Doesn't even have to move house. Villa play one up front and just bought a 22m player. So either he's competing for one spot or he's playing out of position there.

McBurnie I can see staying at Swansea because they are worried this is the difference between having a decent season and fighting relegation. Or I can see him going to Newcastle. Sold Perez, sold Joselu. About to appoint an English manager. He's Scottish, lived in Leeds before. Location makes some sense and if Newcastle just got 30m for Perez and a few for Joselu, spending 20m on McBurnie and ending up with 10m + Joselu money in change doesn't look so bad.

I wonder if Wilder would consider Hogan again. Or whether he'd look at another out of favour player there, Kodja?

We weren't going to be everyone's first choice at this level. This is where Chris and team earn their corn. Get Hendo and Osborn in and all efforts are just on the one striker priority plus maybe a few last minute insurance deals. We've got 21 if we sign those and keep Morrison, not including the listed players. Striker, decision on 3rd keeper, does he go with Dewhurst? Then maybe a defender and another option at the top of the pitch?
 
nopigfansintown said:
It's nothing to do with our budget. It's our valuation of the player.
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I think you're right mate.

May seem a bit of an abstract analogy, but many years ago, when we first got married, we were desperately looking to buy our first house together. We'd been looking for over a year, seen several that we really liked, bid for them, but got gazumped every bleedin' time. It was very frustrating and my wife was 6 months pregnant with our first child. Then, this house came up for sale. It was on fairly cheap for the area. I thought it must need a lot of work on it. But, on inspection, it was immaculate, with a huge garden too. I said to my wife, "this is a must-have", it was easily the best of any we'd seen and it wasn't out of our range budget wise. Then, the bidding started...

The price went up, and up, and up. At one point we were told there were 15 people bidding on it. Eventually the estate agents informed that there would be a sealed bid on a certain date. The price had already gone up about £25,000 over the asking price. I said to my wife, "what do you think it's actually worth?" and "what more on top of that would we be prepared to pay in order to get it?". These are two very different questions. We thought it was worth, maybe, another £10k on top of the price it was at. But we bid another £25k, i.e. £15k more than what it was probably worth, just to have the chance to get it.

We succeeded. Just. I think we came in a couple of grand above the nearest bidder. What we'd done there was to pay over the top - and we knew that. But it got us what we wanted and fended the other bids off. 22 years later the extra that we paid is an irrelevance now - it's value has more than trebled in that time.

I know footballers aren't houses. But there are some principles here which I think may be applicable to both. Sometimes you have to weigh up what something is worth, not just today, but in the future, and take that into account when you are making your valuation. Sometimes it's easy to walk away, especially if you think that someone is taking the piss a bit on the price (exactly how we felt with the house). But if you really are so close to getting what you really want and need, it might not necessarily be a bad thing to just push the boat out a little bit further to ensure you get it, especially if the future value of it is going to be worth far more than you're paying for it.
 
Cerberus Blade said:
I think you're right mate.

May seem a bit of an abstract analogy, but many years ago, when we first got married, we were desperately looking to buy our first house together. We'd been looking for over a year, seen several that we really liked, bid for them, but got gazumped every bleedin' time. It was very frustrating and my wife was 6 months pregnant with our first child. Then, this house came up for sale. It was on fairly cheap for the area. I thought it must need a lot of work on it. But, on inspection, it was immaculate, with a huge garden too. I said to my wife, "this is a must-have", it was easily the best of any we'd seen and it wasn't out of our range budget wise. Then, the bidding started...

The price went up, and up, and up. At one point we were told there were 15 people bidding on it. Eventually the estate agents informed that there would be a sealed bid on a certain date. The price had already gone up about £25,000 over the asking price. I said to my wife, "what do you think it's actually worth?" and "what more on top of that would we be prepared to pay in order to get it?". These are two very different questions. We thought it was worth, maybe, another £10k on top of the price it was at. But we bid another £25k, i.e. £15k more than what it was probably worth, just to have the chance to get it.

We succeeded. Just. I think we came in a couple of grand above the nearest bidder. What we'd done there was to pay over the top - and we knew that. But it got us what we wanted and fended the other bids off. 22 years later the extra that we paid is an irrelevance now - it's value has more than trebled in that time.

I know footballers aren't houses. But there are some principles here which I think may be applicable to both. Sometimes you have to weigh up what something is worth, not just today, but in the future, and take that into account when you are making your valuation. Sometimes it's easy to walk away, especially if you think that someone is taking the piss a bit on the price (exactly how we felt with the house). But if you really are so close to getting what you really want and need, it might not necessarily be a bad thing to just push the boat out a little bit further to ensure you get it, especially if the future value of it is going to be worth far more than you're paying for it.
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Agreed; great analogy by the way.
 
nopigfansintown said:
Agreed; great analogy by the way.
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Nice story, poor analogy I'm afraid. The UK housing market being what it is, that was always a a risk free investmet, the only question was affordability. If you are prepared to stay long enough, it will almost always come good. With human assets the price may go down as well as up.... often in a short space of time. I offer you the Bearded God as a most recent example of 'speculate to accumulate' isnt always the way in sport.
 
Hilly said:
Nice story, poor analogy I'm afraid. The UK housing market being what it is, that was always a a risk free investmet, the only question was affordability. If you are prepared to stay long enough, it will almost always come good. With human assets the price may go down as well as up.... often in a short space of time. I offer you the Bearded God as a most recent example of 'speculate to accumulate' isnt always the way in sport.
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I thought that too reading Cerberus’s example,
Buying a house will never loose value, it’s one of the safest investments you can make.

Where as some players prove to be terrible investments.
History shows that the top Championship players aren’t often a big success in the PL.
Hence why their value is usually low and relatively affordable.
I’d say paying 20 mill for Maupay is well over the odds and a big risk.

Also I refuse to believe NewBee statement that his club Brentford never negotiate sale prices. They set a valuation price and stubbornly stick to it.
 

Hilly said:
Nice story, poor analogy I'm afraid. The UK housing market being what it is, that was always a a risk free investmet, the only question was affordability. If you are prepared to stay long enough, it will almost always come good. With human assets the price may go down as well as up.... often in a short space of time. I offer you the Bearded God as a most recent example of 'speculate to accumulate' isnt always the way in sport.
Click to expand...

If he was talking about the post Thatcher housing market certainly, but I assumed he wasn't. It's only fairly recently that the housing market has gone batshit. Having said that the current transfer market probably has a higher inflation rate at the moment.
 
Sheffsteel said:
I thought that too reading Cerberus’s example,
Buying a house will never loose value, it’s one of the safest investments you can make.

Where as some players prove to be terrible investments.
History shows that the top Championship players aren’t often a big success in the PL.
Hence why their value is usually low and relatively affordable.
I’d say paying 20 mill for Maupay is well over the odds and a big risk.

Also I refuse to believe NewBee statement that his club Brentford never negotiate sale prices. They set a valuation price and stubbornly stick to it.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. There is always negotiation, especially when the house, spurred on by the estate agent, decides that it has matured into a des res and would prefer a different plot in a more expensive neighbourhood. I’m afraid Brentford will eventually have to accept an o.n.o.

Lose. Fucking ‘lose’.
 
Wouldn’t completely rule West Ham out at Haller is very different to Maupay - probably more a McBurnie type. And they need at least two forwards, same as us.
 
nopigfansintown said:
If he was talking about the post Thatcher housing market certainly, but I assumed he wasn't. It's only fairly recently that the housing market has gone batshit. Having said that the current transfer market probably has a higher inflation rate at the moment.
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A lot of people lost their houses in the eighties. They got mortgaged to the hilt, had little disposable income, almost no savings and then got made redundant. I’m sure you remember it.
 
BushBlade said:
A lot of people lost their houses in the eighties. They got mortgaged to the hilt, had little disposable income, almost no savings and then got made redundant. I’m sure you remember it.
Click to expand...
Not to mention interest rates of 15% crippling those that weren't unfortunate enough to be made redundant.
 
Would be surprised to see Hanmers pay for Maupay as well as this Haller. I see they are looking at players in top divisions so that in itself might rule Maupay out at the prices mentioned.
We wait....
 
BushBlade said:
A lot of people lost their houses in the eighties. They got mortgaged to the hilt, had little disposable income, almost no savings and then got made redundant. I’m sure you remember it.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's when the big bubble started and still hasn't ended due to a myriad of factors that are too drab to enlarge upon. Despite the biggest recession since the 1930s this bubble shows no sign of popping. Mass home ownership and fairly stable house prices are a relatively new phenomenom however.
 
nopigfansintown said:
Yes, that's when the big bubble started and still hasn't ended due to a myriad of factors that are too drab to enlarge upon. Despite the biggest recession since the 1930s this bubble shows no sign of popping. Mass home ownership and fairly stable house prices are a relatively new phenomenom however.
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Yes, this thread isn’t for economics or politics but my biggest fear over Brexit is that it could trigger a proper recession. Something usually goes wrong when we get promoted. (See 1939).

Anyway, I still think it’s a fair analogy in terms of sometimes you have to pay over the odds to get what you want. (But I do understand that it’s easier to pay over the odds when you see it as a long term investment with low risk).
 

West Ham have agreed a few for Haller at Frankfurt.

French striker who was in Bundesliga team of the season.

Can’t see them buying him and Maupay.
 
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