CONFIRMED Mark Duffy joins ADO Den Haag

[LoughboroBlade]

If he'd stayed & kept his head down I think there was still a role for Duffy coming off the bench.

I know I’m sounding like a stuck record on this issue, but If we’d seen numerous examples this season where Luke Freeman came on in his position, I’d agree. But the simple reality is that we haven’t. We didn’t even go with the position against non-league, Championship, and League 1 opposition in the two cups. Had Duffy stayed I don’t think he’d have even been on the bench given how difficult Freeman (who plays more positions than Duffy in the systems we’ve used the last 2 years) has found it getting onto the bench. I think he’d have been in a Clarke situation, and much of the discussion would have instead this season been about Duffy’s annoyance at getting no game time, and various people would have been calling for him to be back in over December rather than The Besic Movement we saw when Lundstram had his dip in form.

When you drill down into the what ifs beyond an assumption of “he’d have been involved at times”, it’s extremely difficult to see where his game time over the course of the season would have happened. Sharp should have probably had more opportunities in the autumn over Robinson. Other than that, everyone that’s played or been on the bench over the course of the season has been justified in having their positions IMHO. Maybe he’d have appeared instead of Clarke off the bench vs Liverpool? I’m being more than generous with that. Unless he was planning on scything through Lundstram, Freeman and Besic in training in a calculated move to wipe out the other options and force Wilder to return to last season’s formation, he would have been a peripheral figure this season.

 

[JPBrods]

There has already been talk of doing away with 25 man rule as games, if played, would be in a shorter time frame

Can't wait for Ricky Holmes PL debut.

 

[YES Blade]

Surely we wouldn't extend his contract even if the season goes into August/September? Same for Clarke and Holmes?

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Surely we wouldn't extend his contract even if the season goes into August/September? Same for Clarke and Holmes?

Of course we’ll extend Clarke’s deal to cover the end of the season. We’ve no idea what demands there’ll be on the players in this period, it would be a completely needless risk to leave us one short from the 25 we set in February.

 

[Working Class Hero]

Watching those Ipswich highlights made me miss him. I know I shouldn't given the position we're in, but I did. We haven't had what he did for that first goal this year.

 

[PokerBlade]

I know I’m sounding like a stuck record on this issue, but If we’d seen numerous examples this season where Luke Freeman came on in his position, I’d agree. But the simple reality is that we haven’t. We didn’t even go with the position against non-league, Championship, and League 1 opposition in the two cups. Had Duffy stayed I don’t think he’d have even been on the bench given how difficult Freeman (who plays more positions than Duffy in the systems we’ve used the last 2 years) has found it getting onto the bench. I think he’d have been in a Clarke situation, and much of the discussion would have instead this season been about Duffy’s annoyance at getting no game time, and various people would have been calling for him to be back in over December rather than The Besic Movement we saw when Lundstram had his dip in form.

When you drill down into the what ifs beyond an assumption of “he’d have been involved at times”, it’s extremely difficult to see where his game time over the course of the season would have happened. Sharp should have probably had more opportunities in the autumn over Robinson. Other than that, everyone that’s played or been on the bench over the course of the season has been justified in having their positions IMHO. Maybe he’d have appeared instead of Clarke off the bench vs Liverpool? I’m being more than generous with that. Unless he was planning on scything through Lundstram, Freeman and Besic in training in a calculated move to wipe out the other options and force Wilder to return to last season’s formation, he would have been a peripheral figure this season.

I think the point is that Wilder has been as good as his word when it's come to the players that got us here getting their chances. And some of them have seized it. If he'd stayed and worked hard then no one can say for certain how much he'd have featured but he'd have had a fair crack at getting on the pitch in a side and with a manager that knows how to use him. No one can say for sure what would have happened but I think it's very unlikely that if he'd got his head down and worked hard in the Summer that we'd have made it through to Christmas without seeing him getting a chance to shine on the big stage.

And I wouldn't even fault Duffy if he'd said, you know what, at my age I don't want to be fighting for a few minutes here and there, I want to find another club where I can be making things happen on the pitch. What's left a sour taste is that he tried to play hardball with us in a position he could never win from, and he's ended up making eleven appearances for two struggling sides this season. And I don't mean that spitefully, players have a right to try and negotiate their position, I mean because it makes me sad that a player I enjoyed watching so much who I was looking forward to seeing get his shot at the big time has ended up in no man's land.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

I know I’m sounding like a stuck record on this issue, but If we’d seen numerous examples this season where Luke Freeman came on in his position, I’d agree. But the simple reality is that we haven’t. We didn’t even go with the position against non-league, Championship, and League 1 opposition in the two cups. Had Duffy stayed I don’t think he’d have even been on the bench given how difficult Freeman (who plays more positions than Duffy in the systems we’ve used the last 2 years) has found it getting onto the bench. I think he’d have been in a Clarke situation, and much of the discussion would have instead this season been about Duffy’s annoyance at getting no game time, and various people would have been calling for him to be back in over December rather than The Besic Movement we saw when Lundstram had his dip in form.

When you drill down into the what ifs beyond an assumption of “he’d have been involved at times”, it’s extremely difficult to see where his game time over the course of the season would have happened. Sharp should have probably had more opportunities in the autumn over Robinson. Other than that, everyone that’s played or been on the bench over the course of the season has been justified in having their positions IMHO. Maybe he’d have appeared instead of Clarke off the bench vs Liverpool? I’m being more than generous with that. Unless he was planning on scything through Lundstram, Freeman and Besic in training in a calculated move to wipe out the other options and force Wilder to return to last season’s formation, he would have been a peripheral figure this season.

Well explained and you have me convinced. Sentimental run outs against Liverpool and maybe a cup game or two aside, he wouldn't have got a look in.

 

[thawot]

Don't know why he gets so much stick TBH. Told he wasn't going to get game time or money so slung his hook. Fair enough in my book.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

If he'd stayed and worked hard then no one can say for certain how much he'd have featured but he'd have had a fair crack at getting on the pitch in a side and with a manager that knows how to use him.

I see. So by that logic, the reason Leon Clarke’s been nowhere near the first team (other than in an emergency situation) is because he’s not worked hard enough? Rather than him suddenly being way further back in the pecking order due to recruitment and tactics?

Pull your finger out Leon!

 

[PokerBlade]

I see. So by that logic, the reason Leon Clarke’s been nowhere near the first team (other than in an emergency situation) is because he’s not worked hard enough? Rather than him suddenly being way further back in the pecking order due to recruitment and tactics?

Pull your finger out Leon!

No, by that logic Leon Clarke's had a fair crack at getting in the side.

And in reality Leon Clarke did in fact get on the pitch, in a Premier League match, for Sheffield United, against none other than Liverpool.

I explicitly said Duffy wasn't guaranteed to get in the side. I said, to repeat the part you quoted, he'd have had a fair crack at getting on the pitch.

What a weird attempt at a "gotcha" in response to a very civil post.

 

[Bennyand the Blades]

We all know football players are picked for their skill with a ball, not their IQ.......

 

[LoughboroBlade]

No, by that logic Leon Clarke's had a fair crack at getting in the side.

And in reality Leon Clarke did in fact get on the pitch, in a Premier League match, for Sheffield United, against none other than Liverpool.

I explicitly said Duffy wasn't guaranteed to get in the side. I said, to repeat the part you quoted, he'd have had a fair crack at getting on the pitch.

What a weird attempt at a "gotcha" in response to a very civil post.

It wasn’t meant as a gotcha at all, I was simply trying to clarify the logic of your suggestion he’d have had “a fair crack”. I took that to mean starting a few games and having significant game time. If what you meant by “a fair crack” was a few minutes at the end of a Liverpool game when we were short of options (the emergency option I said Clarke was called in for) then I completely agree that he might have had that had he stayed.

 

[PokerBlade]

It wasn’t meant as a gotcha at all, I was simply trying to clarify the logic of your suggestion he’d have had “a fair crack”. I took that to mean starting a few games and having significant game time. If what you meant by “a fair crack” was a few minutes at the end of a Liverpool game when we were short of options (the emergency option I said Clarke was called in for) then I completely agree that he might have had that had he stayed.

What I mean by a fair crack is a fair chance. I was pretty clear that there's no guarantee, but you could've said the same for any of the players, we all knew they wouldn't all make the step up.

Some players haven't made the cut, some players have, and then you have a player like Sharp who you could've looked at the pre-season signings, looked at the first half of the season, and thought was more or less done. Instead he's ended up starting a few games.

No one could have known if Duffy would get five or ten minutes like Clarke, or several games like Billy, but at least he'd have had a fighting chance. Instead he's made very few appearances in spite of leaving, so not only has he missed his shot with us but he's not taken it elsewhere even at struggling sides.

Working hard with us wouldn't guarantee him time on the pitch, but he'd have been better off leaving in January having made a go of it than dwindling with Stoke and then facing the sights of fans storming a training session under Pardew while playing very little football anyway.

 

[petcharlie]

What Duffy should do is sack his agent.He must have been advised to go in and ask for a new contract by his agent at a time when the club was building for the Prem and all positions in the team were up for new investment.I loved to see him play he was really good for us but not that good that his place was a certainty .Very bad timing and judgment IMO.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

No one could have known if Duffy would get five or ten minutes like Clarke, or several games like Billy, but at least he'd have had a fighting chance.

I’m repeating myself here, but I don’t think this was some sort of unknowable mystery in August. A few made some well considered judgments that based on the fact we had gone for a flatter midfield three in every single preseason game we played over the summer, the likelihood was very high that he would not have had the opportunities that someone like Sharp (whose position was still there, albeit occupied by someone else at the start of the season) would have. You might recall a good number were shocked that Lundstram started at Bournemouth, despite people being given a strong clue by him starting every preseason game that summer. I doubt Duffy would have done what he did had he not also seen the way things were likely to go for him.

Working out where Duffy could have viably fitted in a system that no longer had his position and wasn’t going to change all season, now there’s the mystery no one has an answer to.

 

[8lade]

I don't see Duffy and Freeman as similar except that they both occupy a position in midfield.
Duffy has better link up, beating a man (though not so sure at this level) and shooting, Freeman's crossing is better.
We play the Duffy role with McGoldrick, when Freeman comes on he is out wider.
I still see Duffy as the better player who has a little bit of magic that can open up defences, not seen Freeman do it. Of course we haven't seen Duffy at PL level and that may be the difference. If he'd kept his head down I'd say he would've been a regular on the bench.
It's saddening that he didn't keep stum and my understanding was his agent was uninvolved in the situation that occurred it was family that caused the rift.

 

[PokerBlade]

I’m repeating myself here, but I don’t think this was some sort of unknowable mystery in August. A few made some well considered judgments that based on the fact we had gone for a flatter midfield three in every single preseason game we played over the summer, the likelihood was very high that he would not have had the opportunities that someone like Sharp (whose position was still there, albeit occupied by someone else at the start of the season) would have. You might recall a good number were shocked that Lundstram started at Bournemouth, despite people being given a strong clue by him starting every preseason game that summer. I doubt Duffy would have done what he did had he not also seen the way things were likely to go for him.

Working out where Duffy could have viably fitted in a system that no longer had his position and wasn’t going to change all season, now there’s the mystery no one has an answer to.

I'm not arguing he would've been a regular starter. I think we probably just have different priors when it comes to the odds of him getting game time. Not much more to say there. Clearly there were going to be tactical changes and I agree that pre-season was a sign of things to come.

The thing that doesn't make sense about your narrative is that, if Duffy saw he wasn't going to get a decent chance at game time that would explain him wanting to move away. It doesn't make sense though because Duffy didn't ask to be allowed to look elsewhere, he asked for an improved contract - that's not the sign of a player who sees himself totally out of the manager's plans.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

The thing that doesn't make sense about your narrative is that, if Duffy saw he wasn't going to get a decent chance at game time that would explain him wanting to move away. It doesn't make sense though because Duffy didn't ask to be allowed to look elsewhere, he asked for an improved contract - that's not the sign of a player who sees himself totally out of the manager's plans.

I think that’s fair enough. It was a bit of an unsubstantiated punt on my behalf that he might have thought “well if I’m not going to get something out of this season by playing much (and having the bonuses resulting from that), I want a bit more to make up for that gap.” We don’t really know what went off on that front, but I do recall that however it ended Richard Cadette (Praise Be to his Movement thread) said there wasn’t animosity between Wilder and Duffy.