International scouting: Why hasn't this been done?

[FMBlade1]

It’s not about making promotion a certainty, it’s about improving & increasing the possibility of it. Whilst balancing it off against cost of network. I was under the impression that they are well represented in Denmark, and that’s about it. But to be honest a simple check of soccerway throughout the season shows who they go for. The French lad they’ve got looks astute, he’s 21, but he’s been known about since he was 16 to anyone with a cursory interest in French football. Again hardly uncovering hidden gems.

I’ll wager they’ll finish above us this year, by at least 10 points. It’s not cap doffing to suggest that their trajectory is upwards. Well run, progressive & new stadium. However, as has been mentioned previously, being a London club makes you a hell of a lot more attractive.

Well maybe we should move our training ground to London

https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/move-our-training-ground-to-london.55039/

jokes on the previous thread someone even said that the players Brentford were signing were well known on FIFA as being decent, whilst I'm not suggesting using that they have a slick system and we should be looking to improve ours

 

[FMBlade1]

Chris does not want foreign footballers. As long as he remains at the club we're limited to players from the British Isles. It's as simple as that. You never know, Brexit may be our best hope of getting promoted.

We are club idiot when it comes to scouting and have been for decades.

As long as we are limited to players from the British Isles we won't be able to afford decent ones and have to rely on loans/mercenaries , academy players who get sold as soon as they are half decent, or lower league gems. What is our success record for 'lower league gems' in the championship?

I'm saying that we should be looking to improve our scouting, both domestically and abroad. That shouldn't be up to Wilder to interfere, if indeed he is being difficult about improving.

It also looks very dodgy when you say (and this is not a personal attack on you or Wilder) that he 'doesn't want foreign players'.

If a manager of a British company said 'we don't want foreign workers here because they won't fit into our culture' they'd get slaughtered

 

[Ricky]

The fact we signed their reject centre back to be our first choice tells you all you need to know about how far they are ahead of us.

They had our pants down with Egan. By about £1.5m. But we don't pay over the odds apparently....

 

[sitwell]

Chris does not want foreign footballers. As long as he remains at the club we're limited to players from the British Isles. It's as simple as that. You never know, Brexit may be our best hope of getting promoted.

We are club idiot when it comes to scouting and have been for decades.

OOh another Robbie dig at Wilder ,how unpredictable.

 

[andy m]

The fact we signed their reject centre back to be our first choice tells you all you need to know about how far they are ahead of us.

Their captain is a reject centre back. You do spout some shit sometimes.

 

[sitwell]

They had our pants down with Egan. By about £1.5m. But we don't pay over the odds apparently....

And you know how much we paid for him ? its not even the amount you think is over the odds unless he plays about 800 games and scores the winner in the world cup final.

 

[andy m]

They had our pants down with Egan. By about £1.5m. But we don't pay over the odds apparently....

I cannot understand why you do not work in professional football management.

 

[sitwell]

From my limited vantage point and from what you've said if that's true... Wilder should grow up.

If the scouting system improves through contacts etc that is something to CELEBRATE. If he is being forced into buying players or someone puts undue pressure that is another issue and I don't see the signs of that.

Let's say Van Winkel comes up with a Dutch Martyn Waghorn costing £2 million on 10k a week. If Wilder would turn the player down that raises some questions

Read that to yourself again. How many players in that tremendous Dutch league are like Martyn waghorn and would cost 2 million on 10 k a week. Look at that bag of shit Wendy signed Pelopessy. Have a word with yourself.

 

[Ricky]

And you know how much we paid for him ? its not even the amount you think is over the odds unless he plays about 800 games and scores the winner in the world cup final.

If so, it's pretty desperate and pathetic we announced it as a record signing. Better to put pressure on the player isn't it. But I suppose a lot of our stupid fans would prefer we spent £4m on him than £2m...

Hilly and S5Blade will like andy m's post plus at least one other.

 

[sitwell]

I cannot understand why you do not work in professional football management.

Concentrating on the singing section first.

 

[sitwell]

If so, it's pretty desperate and pathetic we announced it as a record signing. Better to put pressure on the player isn't it. But I suppose a lot of our stupid fans would prefer we spent £4m on him than £2m.

Hilly and S5Blade will like andy m's post plus at least one other.

Same as we got nearer to 4 million for Brooks to start with. Makes shit headlines though doesn't it. Why is it desperate and pathetic ? Only to accommodate desperate and pathetic supporters who need this bit of drama in their lives.

 

[FMBlade1]

Read that to yourself again. How many players in that tremendous Dutch league are like Martyn waghorn and would cost 2 million on 10 k a week. Look at that bag of shit Wendy signed Pelopessy. Have a word with yourself.

I was merely giving a hypothetical. If Wilder would turn that down on some weird grounds then it is extremely puzzling and deserves questioning.

You appear to be suggesting that such a player at that price doesn't exist, which may be true but that's not the point. As it happens he does exist, for example Brentford signed Maupay last season for £1.6 million. You didn't need 150 staff to know that he played for France at junior international level.

Look at the bags of shit we have signed in the domestic market under Wilder (bit harsh for some but you get my point):

Hussey, Carruthers, Holmes, Wilson x2, Stevens, Lundstram, Evans x2, Heneghan, Thomas, Lavery, Brown

Against that:

Stearman, Baldock, Duffy, Clarke, Moore, O'Connell, Wright, Lafferty, Fleck

(with Donaldson and Hanson being somewhere in the middle)

Though just because the other team in Sheffield have had a failure in the foreign market we shouldn't go there. Its blasphemy but I'd love us to have Forestieri

 

[Sean Thornton]

I know I go on about this even more than I did about Ched Evans (ok...that's not quite true).

We got promoted in April 2016. In August 2017 McCabe was asked about it, his response:

'It is on the agenda but we are not acting on this at the moment.'

https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/scouting-infrastructure-problems.57166/

The Prince's people want us to look into it and Van Winckel gets a position within the club.

Wilder gets asked about it, and firstly says that we are focused on UK/Irish players. That's his right and his choice. He then recently says that he doesn't care where his players come from, yet dismisses 'the Brentford model' as we don't have 150 staff on it to scout abroad.

However we find ourselves in the same situation coming up to the end of the transfer window. AGAIN. With prior warning from many.

We can't afford to compete in the English market for a striker, for starters. There's no disgrace in that, Waghorn is not worth £8 million and I'd be disappointed if we did spend that on him. McNulty! cost over a million FFS

So what do we do? Pray for a 'Tammy Abrahams' type signing (yet another loan) or try to pick up another lower league player (Holmes, Leonard, Lundstram, Stevens were not a success so its as hit and miss as any method)

There's an alternative method, one which we have been neglecting, and I find it difficult to believe that we need 150 staff to make it work.

We must be the only club in the championship not to do it. In fact I can't remember a foreign player transfer since Calve in 2011 (someone do correct me if I'm wrong, I suppose there was Hidgson)

So the question is, why haven't we got at least SOMETHING that enables us to scout/bring in players from abroad? Because its our own stupidity if we don't if we know that things are too heated here, and the excuses are wearing pretty thin.

Interested if anyone has any insight into this, if it is money that's the issue I'd suggest we use a decent chunk on the Brook's fee on getting something sorted as investment for the future in the same way that we do for the academy.

There's hardly any fucking money and he's more comfortable with British players, OR, he has to be,because there's no overseas set up. Because there's no fucking money.


Spending Brooks money on a scouting setup now rather than on the team? That'll be popular but a conundrum for those who just like to moan/fantasise/post thoughtful bollocks. Like you.

It's like one flew over the cuckoos nest on here sometimes, and everyone's Martini.

 

[andy m]

I was merely giving a hypothetical. If Wilder would turn that down on some weird grounds then it is extremely puzzling and deserves questioning.

You appear to be suggesting that such a player at that price doesn't exist, which may be true but that's not the point. As it happens he does exist, for example Brentford signed Maupay last season for £1.6 million. You didn't need 150 staff to know that he played for France at junior international level.

Look at the bags of shit we have signed in the domestic market under Wilder (bit harsh for some but you get my point):

Hussey, Carruthers, Holmes, Wilson x2, Stevens, Lundstram, Evans x2, Heneghan, Thomas, Lavery, Brown

Against that:

Stearman, Baldock, Duffy, Clarke, Moore, O'Connell, Wright, Lafferty, Fleck

(with Donaldson and Hanson being somewhere in the middle)

Though just because the other team in Sheffield have had a failure in the foreign market we shouldn't go there. Its blasphemy but I'd love us to have Forestieri

Have Brentford signed any shit players?

 

[Ricky]

Same as we got nearer to 4 million for Brooks to start with. Makes shit headlines though doesn't it. Why is it desperate and pathetic ? Only to accommodate desperate and pathetic supporters who need this bit of drama in their lives.

Because if it's conditional on appearances and success, it's not a record signing is it, and it's a lie to say it is. All to try and look like we're big spenders. Quite pathetic if you ask me. Although I know you'll disagree because you're the biggest hugest Bladey Blade in the world...

 

[Sean Thornton]

I was merely giving a hypothetical. If Wilder would turn that down on some weird grounds then it is extremely puzzling and deserves questioning.

You appear to be suggesting that such a player at that price doesn't exist, which may be true but that's not the point. As it happens he does exist, for example Brentford signed Maupay last season for £1.6 million. You didn't need 150 staff to know that he played for France at junior international level.

Look at the bags of shit we have signed in the domestic market under Wilder (bit harsh for some but you get my point):

Hussey, Carruthers, Holmes, Wilson x2, Stevens, Lundstram, Evans x2, Heneghan, Thomas, Lavery, Brown

Against that:

Stearman, Baldock, Duffy, Clarke, Moore, O'Connell, Wright, Lafferty, Fleck

(with Donaldson and Hanson being somewhere in the middle)

Though just because the other team in Sheffield have had a failure in the foreign market we shouldn't go there. Its blasphemy but I'd love us to have Forestieri

It's not blasphemy. It's stupidity. He's held them to ransom more than once. That's not the sort of player we need.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

We're Brexit Blades, with a middle eastern twist, while the porkers are more your remainer class, with some of them funny foreigner types getting a look in.
Once we're out of the EU we'll walk this league.

 

[sitwell]

Because if it's conditional on appearances and success, it's not a record signing is it, and it's a lie to say it is. All to try and look like we're big spenders. Quite pathetic if you ask me. Although I know you'll disagree because you're the biggest hugest Bladey Blade in the world...

Does that mean I get a pass to the singing gang ?

 

[sitwell]

I was merely giving a hypothetical. If Wilder would turn that down on some weird grounds then it is extremely puzzling and deserves questioning.

You appear to be suggesting that such a player at that price doesn't exist, which may be true but that's not the point. As it happens he does exist, for example Brentford signed Maupay last season for £1.6 million. You didn't need 150 staff to know that he played for France at junior international level.

Look at the bags of shit we have signed in the domestic market under Wilder (bit harsh for some but you get my point):

Hussey, Carruthers, Holmes, Wilson x2, Stevens, Lundstram, Evans x2, Heneghan, Thomas, Lavery, Brown

Against that:

Stearman, Baldock, Duffy, Clarke, Moore, O'Connell, Wright, Lafferty, Fleck

(with Donaldson and Hanson being somewhere in the middle)

Though just because the other team in Sheffield have had a failure in the foreign market we shouldn't go there. Its blasphemy but I'd love us to have Forestieri

I suggest you get a Brentford season ticket ,you obviously love and know much more about them than us. Forestieri the disruptive little cunt earning about the same as our first team a week ? Wake up man.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Because if it's conditional on appearances and success, it's not a record signing is it, and it's a lie to say it is. All to try and look like we're big spenders. Quite pathetic if you ask me. Although I know you'll disagree because you're the biggest hugest Bladey Blade in the world...

He's not. To be a really bigger blade you have to neg the club at every level. Money, transfers, seats, ground, shit fans who won't sing/stand, manager, manager/board link, scouting, pies, kiosk staff. Usually the very young or elderly and infirm who can't grasp the realities of our position or have a single clue about running a football club, or any business in fact.

Having ideas isn't the same as having to deal with problems. Not one person on here could do Wilders or McCabes job. And if they had the money, it'd have gone a lot quicker than McCabes has.

The last know nowt who took on a local football club saw them end up on the steps of the high court, begging.

We've been nowhere near that.

#settlingformediocrity

 

[sitwell]

Because if it's conditional on appearances and success, it's not a record signing is it, and it's a lie to say it is. All to try and look like we're big spenders. Quite pathetic if you ask me. Although I know you'll disagree because you're the biggest hugest Bladey Blade in the world...

So far this season you have moaned about 'our desperate and pathetic club' ,the fans not singing ,the shirts , the signings ,the formation , the scouting ,it goes o and on ,bet you don't get a programme. Why do you bother ?

 

[Ricky]

So far this season you have moaned about 'our desperate and pathetic club' ,the fans not singing ,the shirts , the signings ,the formation , the scouting ,it goes o and on ,bet you don't get a programme. Why do you bother ?

I haven't called the club desperate and pathetic.

The other things you mention have been "moaned at" by loads of others who feel no obligation to be defensive of everything the club does.

 

[Silent Blade]

The fact we signed their reject centre back to be our first choice tells you all you need to know about how far they are ahead of us.

If they don't get promotion this season then I can imagine that they will have to scrap their international scouting system as it is too expensive to run. They are taking high risk. They were supposed to have a new ground ready for this year but I haven't seen news of work on the new ground being started.

 

[Hollinsend]

I was merely giving a hypothetical. If Wilder would turn that down on some weird grounds then it is extremely puzzling and deserves questioning.

You appear to be suggesting that such a player at that price doesn't exist, which may be true but that's not the point. As it happens he does exist, for example Brentford signed Maupay last season for £1.6 million. You didn't need 150 staff to know that he played for France at junior international level.

Look at the bags of shit we have signed in the domestic market under Wilder (bit harsh for some but you get my point):

Hussey, Carruthers, Holmes, Wilson x2, Stevens, Lundstram, Evans x2, Heneghan, Thomas, Lavery, Brown

Against that:

Stearman, Baldock, Duffy, Clarke, Moore, O'Connell, Wright, Lafferty, Fleck

(with Donaldson and Hanson being somewhere in the middle)

Though just because the other team in Sheffield have had a failure in the foreign market we shouldn't go there. Its blasphemy but I'd love us to have Forestieri

I really don't get calling players who've pulled on the red & white and given their all in games get called bags of shit on a blades forum.

 

[joshua thompson]

I know I go on about this even more than I did about Ched Evans (ok...that's not quite true).

We got promoted in April 2016. In August 2017 McCabe was asked about it, his response:

'It is on the agenda but we are not acting on this at the moment.'

https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/scouting-infrastructure-problems.57166/

The Prince's people want us to look into it and Van Winckel gets a position within the club.

Wilder gets asked about it, and firstly says that we are focused on UK/Irish players. That's his right and his choice. He then recently says that he doesn't care where his players come from, yet dismisses 'the Brentford model' as we don't have 150 staff on it to scout abroad.

However we find ourselves in the same situation coming up to the end of the transfer window. AGAIN. With prior warning from many.

We can't afford to compete in the English market for a striker, for starters. There's no disgrace in that, Waghorn is not worth £8 million and I'd be disappointed if we did spend that on him. McNulty! cost over a million FFS

So what do we do? Pray for a 'Tammy Abrahams' type signing (yet another loan) or try to pick up another lower league player (Holmes, Leonard, Lundstram, Stevens were not a success so its as hit and miss as any method)

There's an alternative method, one which we have been neglecting, and I find it difficult to believe that we need 150 staff to make it work.

We must be the only club in the championship not to do it. In fact I can't remember a foreign player transfer since Calve in 2011 (someone do correct me if I'm wrong, I suppose there was Hidgson)

So the question is, why haven't we got at least SOMETHING that enables us to scout/bring in players from abroad? Because its our own stupidity if we don't if we know that things are too heated here, and the excuses are wearing pretty thin.

Interested if anyone has any insight into this, if it is money that's the issue I'd suggest we use a decent chunk on the Brook's fee on getting something sorted as investment for the future in the same way that we do for the academy.

Because it costs too much. I presume you heard the interview with Wilder, and he mentioned although he would like to do it. The cost to the club annually would be millions.

If it is suggested Brentford apply 150 staff in an office, think of all the running costs. Never mind scouts that will be sent out to watch players. Although I agree, this is something we will probably further invest into if we reach the premier league and generate a large chunk of money into the club. But for the time being, and the club making loss every year. We need to progress and sign the right players, spending most of our transfer and wage budget on a scouting system is just not at this moment of time "necessary".

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Here we go again.............

It's not as if Barca, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, PSG, a host of English clubs don't already do this.
then we come to your 2nd tier clubs , in numerous European countries, plus as an example Leicester who got the gem called Mahrez from a French 2nd division clubs that NOW have 20/30 scouts at each game looking for the next Mahrez.

CW has said numerous times, we are doing it different - we have little money (repeated for the nth time) and will concentrate on players in the UK that we can get to see easily.

Kean Bryan should be a prime example of what we are about now. Being in the championship allows us to attract that type of player. Our club is still going in the right direction, we need to leave it like that for now.

UTB

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I'm sorry. I feel way out of my depth on these two points. But, here goes.

United must already have some sort of International network. And, the club are clearly happy to work with overseas players "with a different culture".

This Summer Nicksoen Gomis joined the Academy from Evreux FC 27.

German goalkeeper Jordan Amissah also joined, Borussia Dortmund and Schalke are amongst his former clubs.

Simeon Oure has been at the Academy for a while longer. Following spells with USMF Gagne and Nimes Olympique in his native France.

On Brentford. Haven't they scrapped their Academy. So, what they "save" on that, they are able to chuck at International Recruitment.

 

[South Bucks]

We do seem to have put ourselves in a check mate situation
1) Proven championship attackers are too expensive
2) Attackers from lower leagues are too unproven
3) We don't buy players from overseas.
What is left ?
Our scouting and recruitment of attacking players has been poor for some time and we just got lucky with Leon and Billy was 3 years ago.
Otherwise, when was the last time we spent decent money on an attacker who actually became a regular in the team?
Our priorities are all wrong, struggles ahead.

 

[snootyfenooty]

I'm sorry. I feel way out of my depth on these two points. But, here goes.

United must already have some sort of International network. And, the club are clearly happy to work with overseas players "with a different culture".

This Summer Nicksoen Gomis joined the Academy from Evreux FC 27.

German goalkeeper Jordan Amissah also joined, Borussia Dortmund and Schalke are amongst his former clubs.

Simeon Oure has been at the Academy for a while longer. Following spells with USMF Gagne and Nimes Olympique in his native France.

On Brentford. Haven't they scrapped their Academy. So, what they "save" on that, they are able to chuck at International Recruitment.

You've mentioned three, two who have recently joined. United's record on signing overseas players is not exactly stellar. However, the point that's been missed in this discussion is that you don't need to send 100 scouts globetrotting with all the associated expense to pick up foreign players. They're on our doorstep in other clubs' academies and there's nothing to stop us picking them up within our existing scouting framework as we did with Brooks and a few others. This is when you have to ask if United are against signing foreign players per se.

 

[I should coco]

The fact we signed their reject centre back to be our first choice tells you all you need to know about how far they are ahead of us.

Good point. We signed another one of their 'reject centre backs' two years earlier too.
They cleary saw us coming when they dumped that uselsss JOC on us. I bet they are still laughing about it,,,,,

I'm sorry. I feel way out of my depth on these two points. But, here goes.

United must already have some sort of International network. And, the club are clearly happy to work with overseas players "with a different culture".

This Summer Nicksoen Gomis joined the Academy from Evreux FC 27.

German goalkeeper Jordan Amissah also joined, Borussia Dortmund and Schalke are amongst his former clubs.

Simeon Oure has been at the Academy for a while longer. Following spells with USMF Gagne and Nimes Olympique in his native France.

Don't come on here with your so called 'facts'.

We need anti-Wilder invective and more club bashing, not this detailed factual crap.