International scouting: Why hasn't this been done?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Silent Blade said:
If they don't get promotion this season then I can imagine that they will have to scrap their international scouting system as it is too expensive to run. They are taking high risk. They were supposed to have a new ground ready for this year but I haven't seen news of work on the new ground being started.
Click to expand...

They've already binned their academy to concentrate on scouting in the manner discussed here as it was too expensive to do both .

It's an interesting delimna right now, Academy or foreign scouting network ? In an ideal world we'd have both but we simply cannot afford both right now.

There's echoes of this debate in the current boardroom fallout too as NPFIT points out . The Prince ' allegedly ' not wanting the Academy whilst bringing in van winckel and extolling the virtues of scouting abroad .

Interesting times ahead .
 



joshua thompson said:
Because it costs too much. I presume you heard the interview with Wilder, and he mentioned although he would like to do it. The cost to the club annually would be millions.

If it is suggested Brentford apply 150 staff in an office, think of all the running costs. Never mind scouts that will be sent out to watch players. Although I agree, this is something we will probably further invest into if we reach the premier league and generate a large chunk of money into the club. But for the time being, and the club making loss every year. We need to progress and sign the right players, spending most of our transfer and wage budget on a scouting system is just not at this moment of time "necessary".
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt that Brentford have got a group of 150 working in the scouting section. As far as I am aware, they make use of the statistical data produced by the owner’s betting company, as do their other team in Denmark. The team within the betting company may number that many, I don’t know.

I’m not suggesting wanking away millions a year on a scouting system, what I am saying is that we are caught in a catch 22 situation at the moment. We need a certain type/level of player and we can’t afford to buy domestically, that player exists abroad for lower sums, but we can’t seem to tap into that market, for whatever reason. Perhaps the £1m we’ll end up wasting on Holmes might have been better used in the Belgium/French/German/Dutch/Swedish leagues. Just saying, like. :)
 
Silent Blade said:
If they don't get promotion this season then I can imagine that they will have to scrap their international scouting system as it is too expensive to run. They are taking high risk. They were supposed to have a new ground ready for this year but I haven't seen news of work on the new ground being started.
Click to expand...

They’ve been at it for 3 months now. You’re obviously not on their mailing list ;)

http://www.brentfordcommunitystadium.com
 
Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
I seriously doubt that Brentford have got a group of 150 working in the scouting section. As far as I am aware, they make use of the statistical data produced by the owner’s betting company, as do their other team in Denmark. The team within the betting company may number that many, I don’t know.

I’m not suggesting wanking away millions a year on a scouting system, what I am saying is that we are caught in a catch 22 situation at the moment. We need a certain type/level of player and we can’t afford to buy domestically, that player exists abroad for lower sums, but we can’t seem to tap into that market, for whatever reason. Perhaps the £1m we’ll end up wasting on Holmes might have been better used in the Belgium/French/German/Dutch/Swedish leagues. Just saying, like. :)
Click to expand...


https://www.brentfordfc.com/news/2018/february/scouting-job-feb-2018/
 
Do we really need 150 staff to scout abroad? I think not, even Barnsley made a foreign signing last year (yes they got relegated but all championship clubs bar us use this market)

Brentford is the stellar model in this regard, I'm not suggesting that we copy them merely improve upon what we have so we can progress in this division (not the same as 'club-bashing')

I just don't see how Evans x2 Holmes Lundstram Leonard are going to be part of a promotion winning team, of course I'd be delighted to be proved wrong.

If Wilder rejects foreign players because 'they won't fit into our culture' that deserves some discussion/scrutiny, again that's not 'bashing' him.

My greatest fear is that we will be left short in the transfer market this year, and will fail to progress by hindering ourselves by avoiding quality foreign players who we can actually afford.

Then the scrutiny will really kick in.
 
Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
I seriously doubt that Brentford have got a group of 150 working in the scouting section. As far as I am aware, they make use of the statistical data produced by the owner’s betting company, as do their other team in Denmark. The team within the betting company may number that many, I don’t know.

I’m not suggesting wanking away millions a year on a scouting system, what I am saying is that we are caught in a catch 22 situation at the moment. We need a certain type/level of player and we can’t afford to buy domestically, that player exists abroad for lower sums, but we can’t seem to tap into that market, for whatever reason. Perhaps the £1m we’ll end up wasting on Holmes might have been better used in the Belgium/French/German/Dutch/Swedish leagues. Just saying, like. :)
Click to expand...

The 150 staff in an office was mentioned by Wilder in an interview, does seem excessive and could be exaggerated but always possible. Surely all clubs must use some statistical data?

I agree with your points. We could do with that different player in the team, and I would like to see the club establish this foundation in the near future. However, it does seem like we focus more on youth development, which is very successful.

Just a thought though, surely we must be sending some scouts abroad? We also have affiliated clubs, I am sure Fenerbache and Estudiantes are some affiliates associated with the club. So why can't we liaise with them?
 
joshua thompson said:
Because it costs too much. I presume you heard the interview with Wilder, and he mentioned although he would like to do it. The cost to the club annually would be millions.

If it is suggested Brentford apply 150 staff in an office, think of all the running costs. Never mind scouts that will be sent out to watch players. Although I agree, this is something we will probably further invest into if we reach the premier league and generate a large chunk of money into the club. But for the time being, and the club making loss every year. We need to progress and sign the right players, spending most of our transfer and wage budget on a scouting system is just not at this moment of time "necessary".
Click to expand...

United used to have access to videos of most matches in most European leagues. Not sure if we've still got that, but scouts do watch a lot of games on video/live on TV, which should be a lot less expensive than having them travel all over Europe to look for players.
 
Bergen Blade said:
United used to have access to videos of most matches in most European leagues. Not sure if we've still got that, but scouts do watch a lot of games on video/live on TV, which should be a lot less expensive than having them travel all over Europe to look for players.
Click to expand...

Good point. Didn't string to mind that this was a possibility. Again though, surely that could be hours of coverage a week to cover.
 
United must need some mega expensive computers and TVs if watching foreign football on 'em would cost millions.
 
Bergen Blade said:
United used to have access to videos of most matches in most European leagues. Not sure if we've still got that, but scouts do watch a lot of games on video/live on TV, which should be a lot less expensive than having them travel all over Europe to look for players.
Click to expand...

I read an interview with Monchi who was then Sevilla's technical director (he's now at Roma). He has overseen some spectacular transfer market successes (Dani Alves, Ivan Rakitic, Gregorz Krychowiak) based on this philosophy:

Monchi interview with Sid Lowe said:
Monchi explains: “Sixteen people cover a series of leagues. For the first five months we watch a lot of football but with no particular aim: we’re just accumulating data. Every month we produce an ideal XI for each league. Then in December we start watching players who appeared regularly in different contexts – home, away, international – to build the broadest possible profile.”

Monchi pulls out his phone and, carefully reducing the image so the names can’t be seen, says: “That gives us this.” A colour-coded spreadsheet shows players by position. Around 250 potential targets, in all positions. “The manager says: ‘I want a left-back who averages 11km a game, runs 800m at full speed, uses both feet.’ And from these, 10 will fit.”
Click to expand...

We don't need 16 people; a core of 4-6 looking at Scandinavia, Germany, Holland, Belgium and France would be a good start. It seems we're doing this at a youth level.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/17/sevilla-monchi-liverpool-europa-league-final
 



robbiez666 said:
It's worth pointing out that Brentford have a youth/development team, they just don't have an Academy.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ditched-their-academy-premier-league-outcasts
Click to expand...


What's not clear in their plans is what actually happens IF they are promoted ? Does the Academy become a desirable assett for them when cold hard cash is more readily available ? Or will they continue to recruit other PL youngsters who are deemed surplus to requirements at other Clubs ? It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out down there .

We've of course tied our colours very clearly to the mast here in terms of the Academy but we also scour the PL academies too and recruit accordingly just like Brentford .

Longer term I'm far more comfortable keeping the Academy in place whilst adopting a policy of expanding scouting networks abroad gradually . And it's this approach that McCabe clearly sees as ' the Blades way ' or ' our ethos ' And it's one the CW buys into aswell . The Prince however clearly doesn't . I can't say I'm enthusiastic about the direction of our policy IF the Prince wins control .
 
FMBlade1 said:
From my limited vantage point and from what you've said if that's true... Wilder should grow up.

If the scouting system improves through contacts etc that is something to CELEBRATE. If he is being forced into buying players or someone puts undue pressure that is another issue and I don't see the signs of that.

Let's say Van Winkel comes up with a Dutch Martyn Waghorn costing £2 million on 10k a week. If Wilder would turn the player down that raises some questions
Click to expand...

sitwell said:
Read that to yourself again. How many players in that tremendous Dutch league are like Martyn waghorn and would cost 2 million on 10 k a week. Look at that bag of shit Wendy signed Pelopessy. Have a word with yourself.
Click to expand...


Higdond.jpg
 
nopigfansintown said:
We have scouts abroad. Whether it's enough to be classed as a foreign scouting network I'd doubt.This was something that was proposed by Adkins and has since been mentioned by the Prince :

Prince: "I think we have a dilemma coming soon. The club has the DNA of Sheffield United; a good spirit and you feel proud when you watch the team play. It represents, for me, Sheffield as a city. But sooner or later there will be a challenge. Can we keep it as an English club. If we go to the Premier League, for sure we need some international players. Probably even if, God forbid, we stay in the Championship for a long time. We need to introduce international scouting for players. It is a must in the Premier League and a good thing in the Championship. English players are expensive. You can choose from a bigger pool.
James Shield: Systems like that can also be very expensive though.
Prince: I have a plan and my people will present it to the board. We want Sheffield United to be a world class club. But we also never want to fans to lose sight of the fact this is Sheffield United, their club. We never want them to feel it isn’t".

This was followed up with the appointment of Van Winkel and the subsequent problems between Wilder and the board. The inferences were that transfer policy is "a red line" for Wilder, and that Van Winkel and/or the Prince were somehow a threat to his autonomy.
Click to expand...

Wilder needs to adapt and at least consider players from abroad.
 
ShockingBadBuy said:
Crikey. you are joking, right?
Click to expand...

Yes he was a terrible signing. However all things considered he made a valuable contribution to our club's history.

Just because he was a failed international signing for us I see no reason why we shouldn't look abroad again. Its like saying that we shouldn't look domestically because Hussey was crap
 
FMBlade1 said:
Yes he was a terrible signing. However all things considered he made a valuable contribution to our club's history.

Just because he was a failed international signing for us I see no reason why we shouldn't look abroad again. Its like saying that we shouldn't look domestically because Hussey was crap
Click to expand...


The-World-Pie-Eating-Championships-at-Harrys-Bar-in-Wigan.jpg



:)
 
Has anyone put this tin hat on yet?

Of course, after Brexit, many players with passports from other EU countries will no longer qualify for a Work Permit & will not be able to play in the EFL.
 
Wilder confirms tonight, if we are to take him at his word, there we can't afford anymore players in the domestic market.

I don't know if he knows yet that you can sign players from outside the domestic market. I'll shut up about this for now until the window shuts, save to say:

You make your bed, you lie in it.
 
FMBlade1 said:
Wilder confirms tonight, if we are to take him at his word, there we can't afford anymore players in the domestic market.

I don't know if he knows yet that you can sign players from outside the domestic market. I'll shut up about this for now until the window shuts, save to say:

You make your bed, you lie in it.
Click to expand...


If you don't know, maybe you should stop asking such a stupid question.
 
I know that there's a feel-good factor after the win against QPR and bringing Norwood in, which of course I commend the club for.

However I just had a read of this today:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45043408

I just can't see it being an issue of finance sending someone over there to watch for a few weeks, it must cost at most 5k or so. Clearly Wilder has his way of doing things and I'd be delighted if he proved that his strategy will keep us progressing, in the meantime the club should be looking to improve the infrastructure regardless.

UTB :)
 
FMBlade1 said:
From my limited vantage point and from what you've said if that's true... Wilder should grow up.

If the scouting system improves through contacts etc that is something to CELEBRATE. If he is being forced into buying players or someone puts undue pressure that is another issue and I don't see the signs of that.

Let's say Van Winkel comes up with a Dutch Martyn Waghorn costing £2 million on 10k a week. If Wilder would turn the player down that raises some questions
Click to expand...
dutch martyn waghorn?? for ten bob happeny you say? how come noone else bought him then?
i see a lot of almost broke clubs playing lads from french league 2 on huge wages cis Wenger found a couple there 20 years ago
 
FMBlade1 said:
I know I go on about this even more than I did about Ched Evans (ok...that's not quite true).

We got promoted in April 2016. In August 2017 McCabe was asked about it, his response:

'It is on the agenda but we are not acting on this at the moment.'

https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/scouting-infrastructure-problems.57166/

The Prince's people want us to look into it and Van Winckel gets a position within the club.

Wilder gets asked about it, and firstly says that we are focused on UK/Irish players. That's his right and his choice. He then recently says that he doesn't care where his players come from, yet dismisses 'the Brentford model' as we don't have 150 staff on it to scout abroad.

However we find ourselves in the same situation coming up to the end of the transfer window. AGAIN. With prior warning from many.

We can't afford to compete in the English market for a striker, for starters. There's no disgrace in that, Waghorn is not worth £8 million and I'd be disappointed if we did spend that on him. McNulty! cost over a million FFS

So what do we do? Pray for a 'Tammy Abrahams' type signing (yet another loan) or try to pick up another lower league player (Holmes, Leonard, Lundstram, Stevens were not a success so its as hit and miss as any method)

There's an alternative method, one which we have been neglecting, and I find it difficult to believe that we need 150 staff to make it work.

We must be the only club in the championship not to do it. In fact I can't remember a foreign player transfer since Calve in 2011 (someone do correct me if I'm wrong, I suppose there was Hidgson)

So the question is, why haven't we got at least SOMETHING that enables us to scout/bring in players from abroad? Because its our own stupidity if we don't if we know that things are too heated here, and the excuses are wearing pretty thin.

Interested if anyone has any insight into this, if it is money that's the issue I'd suggest we use a decent chunk on the Brook's fee on getting something sorted as investment for the future in the same way that we do for the academy.
Click to expand...

Nothing To Report As Yet
D943_188_598_1200.jpg D943_188_598_1200.jpg
 



You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GymClassHero
This season hasn't been all bad...
2
Replies
34
Views
2K
Super Furry Blades
Super Furry Blades
Deadbat
2025/26 SUFC SEASON REVIEW / SCHOOL REPORT - Part 2: Board/Club/Managers
Replies
18
Views
1K
10p
10p
Maurice Maurice
Remember the Premier League?
Replies
24
Views
1K
Varkanoid
Varkanoid
Deadbat
2025/26 SUFC SEASON REVIEW / SCHOOL REPORT – Part 8: Summary, Conclusions and Awards
Replies
18
Views
813
Bell4
Bell4
J
A theory on player fitness…
Replies
28
Views
2K
Rufus Smalls
Rufus Smalls

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom