International scouting: Why hasn't this been done?

[FMBlade1]

I know I go on about this even more than I did about Ched Evans (ok...that's not quite true).

We got promoted in April 2016. In August 2017 McCabe was asked about it, his response:

'It is on the agenda but we are not acting on this at the moment.'

https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/scouting-infrastructure-problems.57166/

The Prince's people want us to look into it and Van Winckel gets a position within the club.

Wilder gets asked about it, and firstly says that we are focused on UK/Irish players. That's his right and his choice. He then recently says that he doesn't care where his players come from, yet dismisses 'the Brentford model' as we don't have 150 staff on it to scout abroad.

However we find ourselves in the same situation coming up to the end of the transfer window. AGAIN. With prior warning from many.

We can't afford to compete in the English market for a striker, for starters. There's no disgrace in that, Waghorn is not worth £8 million and I'd be disappointed if we did spend that on him. McNulty! cost over a million FFS

So what do we do? Pray for a 'Tammy Abrahams' type signing (yet another loan) or try to pick up another lower league player (Holmes, Leonard, Lundstram, Stevens were not a success so its as hit and miss as any method)

There's an alternative method, one which we have been neglecting, and I find it difficult to believe that we need 150 staff to make it work.

We must be the only club in the championship not to do it. In fact I can't remember a foreign player transfer since Calve in 2011 (someone do correct me if I'm wrong, I suppose there was Hidgson)

So the question is, why haven't we got at least SOMETHING that enables us to scout/bring in players from abroad? Because its our own stupidity if we don't if we know that things are too heated here, and the excuses are wearing pretty thin.

Interested if anyone has any insight into this, if it is money that's the issue I'd suggest we use a decent chunk on the Brook's fee on getting something sorted as investment for the future in the same way that we do for the academy.

 

[Jon Bon II]

It has. Surely it can't be that hard to find someone with their Creative Midfielder or 20 Goals A Season badge...?!?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Organization_of_the_Scout_Movement

 

[Bashar Al Asaba]

Because it means paying over the odds for a plane ticket.

 

[JonnyRed(WCFC)]

Because it means paying over the odds for a plane ticket.

Why bother buying a plane ticket?! Whats wrong with a pirate ship?!

 

[Dutch Blade]

The thing with international scouting is: If you hire someone from England and let him scout in other countries that's gonna cost the most AND is not efficient, since the guy probably does not have full knowledge of a league already. The way too go, in my opinion, is: Hire someone from the country were you wanna scout. So hire a Dutch guy for Eredivisie, a Danish guy for the Superliga who already lives in Holland/Danmark. If you pick the right guy, they know how players have evolved and know what the interesting targets are without United paying a single penny.

 

[sitwell]

Worked great for the Grunters hasn't it. Do you think foreign agents are more honest than british ones ?

 

[Ricky]

Got to say the '150 staff' Brentford excuse was a very clever one from Wilder. It might fool a few into thinking you need anything like that level of investment to find decent players abroad.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Wages

 

[LJBlade]

Got to say the '150 staff' Brentford excuse was a very clever one from Wilder. It might fool a few into thinking you need anything like that level of investment to find decent players abroad.

That was in reply to a question along the lines of “why aren’t we doing what Brentford are doing”

 

[SW12 to S12 to S18]

How disappointing, when I first saw this thread I thought it read International shouting. I was quite intrigued.

 

[FMBlade1]

Wages

I'm not being funny but I'm sure there is say, a Dutch 'Martyn Waghorn' out there. I highly doubt they will want anymore wages than we would be prepared to offer and that his transfer fee would be anywhere £8 million.

 

[BerksBlade]

I thought D'Jaffo had done some scouting for us in France? Deano must have some scandinavian contacts?

 

[FMBlade1]

Got to say the '150 staff' Brentford excuse was a very clever one from Wilder. It might fool a few into thinking you need anything like that level of investment to find decent players abroad.

I don't get Wilder's angle on this. Of course he wants the club to succeed, but he seems very stuck to his ways and defensive. He has the right to make these decisions not to buy foreign players, but I won't take him whinging about players here being too expensive when we fail to progress.

It almost reminds me of Arsene Wenger's obsession for years for not spending the going rate on players (and having a socialist wage structure) at Arsenal and trying to do it 'his way' which was inadequate for the moving times.

Whether we have an international scouting system shouldn't be his decision anyway it should exist irregardless the same way as the academy does.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

It’s because CW operates an expanded and refined form of pub team, team spirit. He needs to know the players that we bring in fit into that. He’s not going to bring in players in from the continent, because he’s not going to know their personalities & chances are they would roll their eyes at the sight of members of our first team rolling around the floor arseholed. He seriously can’t afford to have cliques. He’s therefore limited to players that have played for him or those that he has encountered & can ask someone to vouch for. The loans are just pot luck.

 

[Blade56]

I seem to recall Colin and Blackadder doing a round the world trip scouting foreign players on mccabes expense account, that worked out well.

 

[LJBlade]

I don't get Wilder's angle on this. Of course he wants the club to succeed, but he seems very stuck to his ways and defensive. He has the right to make these decisions not to buy foreign players, but I won't take him whinging about players here being too expensive when we fail to progress.

It almost reminds me of Arsene Wenger's obsession for years for not spending the going rate on players (and having a socialist wage structure) at Arsenal and trying to do it 'his way' which was inadequate for the moving times.

Whether we have an international scouting system shouldn't be his decision anyway it should exist irregardless the same way as the academy does.

You won’t take him whinging? What’s your solution to that then?

 

[Carlton Blade]

It’s because CW operates an expanded and refined form of pub team, team spirit. He needs to know the players that we bring in fit into that. He’s not going to bring in players in from the continent, because he’s not going to know their personalities & chances are they would roll their eyes at the sight of members of our first team rolling around the floor arseholed. He seriously can’t afford to have cliques. He’s therefore limited to players that have played for him or those that he has encountered & can ask someone to vouch for. The loans are just pot luck.

Not sure what % of that is tongue in cheek?

 

[FMBlade1]

It’s because CW operates an expanded and refined form of pub team, team spirit. He needs to know the players that we bring in fit into that. He’s not going to bring in players in from the continent, because he’s not going to know their personalities & chances are they would roll their eyes at the sight of members of our first team rolling around the floor arseholed. He seriously can’t afford to have cliques. He’s therefore limited to players that have played for him or those that he has encountered & can ask someone to vouch for. The loans are just pot luck.

You are right in your analysis:

'That ethos is partly why, despite the “better value” on offer, Wilder has largely resisted the lure of players from overseas.

“We’re based on an English mentality but that doesn’t mean we’ll close the doors on other players,” he insists. “We are looking to expand our recruitment, but the most critical thing is that players fit into our culture.”

https://www.theleaguepaper.com/feat...nable-to-pay-our-suppliers-says-chris-wilder/

Though I somewhat doubt Wilder will ever say: 'Yeah we couldn't bring in any additions we can afford because they won't fit into our culture.'

Not every player abroad is Luton Shelton or Mario Ballotelli, this is an irritating attitude, we have to move forward.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

I seem to recall Colin and Blackadder doing a round the world trip scouting foreign players on mccabes expense account, that worked out well.

How ever much we enjoy kicking those two, they weren’t the pricks who bought white star, ferensvaros & chengu.

 

[FMBlade1]

You won’t take him whinging? What’s your solution to that then?

He has nothing to fear from me just he won't have any place to hide for criticism on this issue. He makes his bed he lies in it.

 

[Silent Blade]

Got to say the '150 staff' Brentford excuse was a very clever one from Wilder. It might fool a few into thinking you need anything like that level of investment to find decent players abroad.

When was the last time Brentford played in the top division? You confident that they will go up this season? If all 24 clubs in the Championship have International scouting like Brentford have then only 3 clubs will get promotion

 

[nopigfansintown]

We have scouts abroad. Whether it's enough to be classed as a foreign scouting network I'd doubt.This was something that was proposed by Adkins and has since been mentioned by the Prince :

Prince: "I think we have a dilemma coming soon. The club has the DNA of Sheffield United; a good spirit and you feel proud when you watch the team play. It represents, for me, Sheffield as a city. But sooner or later there will be a challenge. Can we keep it as an English club. If we go to the Premier League, for sure we need some international players. Probably even if, God forbid, we stay in the Championship for a long time. We need to introduce international scouting for players. It is a must in the Premier League and a good thing in the Championship. English players are expensive. You can choose from a bigger pool.
James Shield: Systems like that can also be very expensive though.
Prince: I have a plan and my people will present it to the board. We want Sheffield United to be a world class club. But we also never want to fans to lose sight of the fact this is Sheffield United, their club. We never want them to feel it isn’t".

This was followed up with the appointment of Van Winkel and the subsequent problems between Wilder and the board. The inferences were that transfer policy is "a red line" for Wilder, and that Van Winkel and/or the Prince were somehow a threat to his autonomy.

 

[FMBlade1]

How ever much we enjoy kicking those two, they weren’t the pricks who bought white star, ferensvaros & chengu.

Those ventures didn't work out, and perhaps we as a club are a bit scarred by them. I'm not suggesting a return to that model.

However Ferensvaros basically saved Lowton's career when he was about to be released (as I understand it) giving us a great player plus a £3 million sale.

I'm sure Inter Milan have some youngsters who would have been impressed by us and wouldn't mind a spell here, though I wonder if Wilder would turn them down because they are 'too fancy' or something

 

[Ricky]

What is this 'culture' exactly?

Can it be broken down to simply drinking lots and lots of beer?

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

What is this 'culture' exactly?

Can it be broken down to simply drinking lots and lots of beer?

Well I don’t think it involves monthly trips to Covent Garden to watch the opera.

 

[FMBlade1]

We have scouts abroad. Whether it's enough to be classed as a foreign scouting network I'd doubt.This was something that was proposed by Adkins and has since been mentioned by the Prince :

Prince: "I think we have a dilemma coming soon. The club has the DNA of Sheffield United; a good spirit and you feel proud when you watch the team play. It represents, for me, Sheffield as a city. But sooner or later there will be a challenge. Can we keep it as an English club. If we go to the Premier League, for sure we need some international players. Probably even if, God forbid, we stay in the Championship for a long time. We need to introduce international scouting for players. It is a must in the Premier League and a good thing in the Championship. English players are expensive. You can choose from a bigger pool.
James Shield: Systems like that can also be very expensive though.
Prince: I have a plan and my people will present it to the board. We want Sheffield United to be a world class club. But we also never want to fans to lose sight of the fact this is Sheffield United, their club. We never want them to feel it isn’t".

This was followed up with the appointment of Van Winkel and the subsequent problems between Wilder and the board. The inferences were that transfer policy is "a red line" for Wilder, and that Van Winkel and/or the Prince were somehow a threat to his autonomy.

From my limited vantage point and from what you've said if that's true... Wilder should grow up.

If the scouting system improves through contacts etc that is something to CELEBRATE. If he is being forced into buying players or someone puts undue pressure that is another issue and I don't see the signs of that.

Let's say Van Winkel comes up with a Dutch Martyn Waghorn costing £2 million on 10k a week. If Wilder would turn the player down that raises some questions

 

[nopigfansintown]

From my limited vantage point and from what you've said if that's true... Wilder should grow up.

If the scouting system improves through contacts etc that is something to CELEBRATE. If he is being forced into buying players or someone puts undue pressure that is another issue and I don't see the signs of that.

Let's say Van Winkel comes up with a Dutch Martyn Waghorn costing £2 million on 10k a week. If Wilder would turn the player down that raises some questions

Agree, but Wilder did hint at interference in transfers being an issue. Lots of red lines mentioned. Worth remembering the new contract was on the table from christmas onwards.We've just found out that Wednesday's play off final season was built on transfers made by a transfer committee. Maybe the prince had similar plans?

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

When was the last time Brentford played in the top division? You confident that they will go up this season? If all 24 clubs in the Championship have International scouting like Brentford have then only 3 clubs will get promotion

It’s not about making promotion a certainty, it’s about improving & increasing the possibility of it. Whilst balancing it off against cost of network. I was under the impression that they are well represented in Denmark, and that’s about it. But to be honest a simple check of soccerway throughout the season shows who they go for. The French lad they’ve got looks astute, he’s 21, but he’s been known about since he was 16 to anyone with a cursory interest in French football. Again hardly uncovering hidden gems.

I’ll wager they’ll finish above us this year, by at least 10 points. It’s not cap doffing to suggest that their trajectory is upwards. Well run, progressive & new stadium. However, as has been mentioned previously, being a London club makes you a hell of a lot more attractive.

 

[FMBlade1]

When was the last time Brentford played in the top division? You confident that they will go up this season? If all 24 clubs in the Championship have International scouting like Brentford have then only 3 clubs will get promotion

The fact we signed their reject centre back to be our first choice tells you all you need to know about how far they are ahead of us.

 

[robbiez666]

Chris does not want foreign footballers. As long as he remains at the club we're limited to players from the British Isles. It's as simple as that. You never know, Brexit may be our best hope of getting promoted.

We are club idiot when it comes to scouting and have been for decades.